WAG Changing Gyms at upper levels

[happychaos]

I guess I will dive in a little deeper, and talk about the major thing that upsets me. We spend years coaching and building a relationship with a gymnast, a relationship of trust and respect,,,,, then a parent takes them in secret to try out at another gym (okay fine, no harm). Then when I ask little Susie, "where were you yesterday", she replies "I was sick". Wow, after all these years the parents have now told and taught a child to lie to an adult who has dedicated themselves to that child. The relationship is now broken and your child is put in a horrible position to lie to the very people that she adores..... And that sickens me every time,,,,, Now I have had several parents be completely up front, it's still sad but at least DD does not have to lie to her coaches..... How about just being honest, seriously folks, don't ever make your child lie to a coach....

It's nice that you are a professional, and act like one. Unfortunately, there are way too many coaches that are anything but.

Here's the thing- the type of coach that will ask a girl to leave if he finds out she has been "sneaking" at other gyms is probably the SAME type of coach that will treat the gymnast/family terribly when they announce they are switching gyms. There is nothing to be gained by being upfront with this type of coach. I'm sure there are many wonderful coaches that just have the gymnasts best interests at heart, and hopefully families know which type they've got. When DD left her old gym, a coach she adored literally sneered at her, and it really hurt her. I never would have suspected that this ADULT would treat my child that way.

Like many other gym issues, it goes back to communication. Many coaches are not willing to maintain an open dialogue with parents. A coach that puts in the time necessary to have good communication with parents/gymnasts would not be surprised when a gymnast chooses to leave. Coach will have known they were unhappy for a while. Ideally, the coach will have heard all of the concerns as they arise.

Of course I don't agree with teaching kids to lie, but you have to understand that parents are put in a difficult situation. Non-communicative, vindictive coaches with big egos are a dime-a-dozen, unfortunately. Several posts on this thread are examples of this. Sure, you may not like being lied to, but gymnasts and parents certainly don't appreciate being shunned and treated like the enemy.

 

[gymdog]

Well, it's pretty obvious when a kid is practicing at other gyms. They generally stop trying. Parents are often oblivious about this but it's generally extremely obvious to the point we joke about it (among coaches). There are many reasons why I say just make a clean break. Doesn't matter if your coaches are rational or crazy, either way you don't have a lot to lose. If they're rational then whatever, if not you're screwed either way, not sure why you'd stick around because it's bound to end badly.

I'm a rational person so I don't really care if someone who doesn't like my program leaves. We're better off without em. I'm frequently sad for/about the kids but life goes on.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

It's nice that you are a professional, and act like one. Unfortunately, there are way too many coaches that are anything but.

Here's the thing- the type of coach that will ask a girl to leave if he finds out she has been "sneaking" at other gyms is probably the SAME type of coach that will treat the gymnast/family terribly when they announce they are switching gyms. There is nothing to be gained by being upfront with this type of coach. I'm sure there are many wonderful coaches that just have the gymnasts best interests at heart, and hopefully families know which type they've got. When DD left her old gym, a coach she adored literally sneered at her, and it really hurt her. I never would have suspected that this ADULT would treat my child that way.

Like many other gym issues, it goes back to communication. Many coaches are not willing to maintain an open dialogue with parents. A coach that puts in the time necessary to have good communication with parents/gymnasts would not be surprised when a gymnast chooses to leave. Coach will have known they were unhappy for a while. Ideally, the coach will have heard all of the concerns as they arise.

Of course I don't agree with teaching kids to lie, but you have to understand that parents are put in a difficult situation. Non-communicative, vindictive coaches with big egos are a dime-a-dozen, unfortunately. Several posts on this thread are examples of this. Sure, you may not like being lied to, but gymnasts and parents certainly don't appreciate being shunned and treated like the enemy.

==
Again, (not directed specifically at you) opting to have a child LIE to a coach is sickening, but parents leave no choice when they sneak around and then return a child to workout. I cannot tell you the utter destruction that this does to a coach gymnast relationship. So again,,,, Parents stop putting your children in the position of having to lie to the coach, step up and be honest. After all once you try another gym you have shaken the faith of your child in the program so they are done anyways, just step up and end it yourself.....

 

[RAMS]

I tried for a few weeks to tell the coaches about looking into a gym change but meetings kept getting delayed. My dd tried a few gyms and coaches found out prior to my telling them. They were disappointed in the way they found out but let dd finish session we paid for and she left being able to say goodbye to her teammates and coaches. I felt terrible the coaches found out before I could speak to them.

 

[happychaos]

==
Again, (not directed specifically at you) opting to have a child LIE to a coach is sickening, but parents leave no choice when they sneak around and then return a child to workout. I cannot tell you the utter destruction that this does to a coach gymnast relationship. So again,,,, Parents stop putting your children in the position of having to lie to the coach, step up and be honest. After all once you try another gym you have shaken the faith of your child in the program so they are done anyways, just step up and end it yourself.....

You're totally proving my point. You say you want the family to be honest and not "sneak", but then you also say "After all once you try another gym you have shaken the faith of your child in the program so they are done anyways..." It is stuff like this that makes parents feel as though they HAVE to sneak....

Perhaps you should state in your team handbook that checking out other gyms will not be tolerated. If you do it, you are "done". Clearly, this is the way you run your gym, and parents should know this upfront, right? I mean, so everyone is honest... This is a pretty important thing to know about a program that a parent is putting their child in.

Chalk bucket parents generally seem more knowledgeable than the average gym parent, and the majority of the parents here feel that "sneaking" is the best way. Coaches, don't put this all on the parents....if you don't like sneaking, then make it known that it is okay to be upfront. Clearly, the attitude of "try another gym and you are done" doesn't encourage families to be open.

Last year one of DD's teammates was struggling and tried out at another gym, and called at least one more. Her parents decided she was in the best place, and she stayed at the gym. After seeing what else was out there, their confidence in the gym increased. While coaches and experienced parents may be familiar with all the local gyms, compulsory parents usually won't be.

You have to understand that the "sneaking" is not done out of a desire to be deceitful. Families may want to investigate the options, think things over, and many may be unsure if they truly want to leave. If you have gymnasts try other gyms and choose to stay with you, isn't that a good thing? I don't think most kids would consider the relationship "utterly destroyed" and it's a shame that a coach would. Even if a family checks out a different gym, it doesn't mean that they don't think you're just great There can be may reasons for a gym switch.

 

[bookworm]

You're totally proving my point. You say you want the family to be honest and not "sneak", but then you also say "After all once you try another gym you have shaken the faith of your child in the program so they are done anyways..." It is stuff like this that makes parents feel as though they HAVE to sneak....

Bingo!

 

[Quadqueen]

While it's never ideal to have your child lie, what do you think adults do when they go out on a job interview and they missed work? Do they say, "Oh, I had an interview for a job I think would be a better fit," or do they say, "I was sick." ??

People are put in a tough situation. If they are honest that they are looking at other options, they are probably screwed if they end up staying. It works the same way with looking at other gyms.

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

It's nice that you are a professional, and act like one. Unfortunately, there are way too many coaches that are anything but.

Here's the thing- the type of coach that will ask a girl to leave if he finds out she has been "sneaking" at other gyms is probably the SAME type of coach that will treat the gymnast/family terribly when they announce they are switching gyms. There is nothing to be gained by being upfront with this type of coach. I'm sure there are many wonderful coaches that just have the gymnasts best interests at heart, and hopefully families know which type they've got. When DD left her old gym, a coach she adored literally sneered at her, and it really hurt her. I never would have suspected that this ADULT would treat my child that way.

In the ideal world, all coaches would be like coachp, but unfortunately after having a competitive gymnast for over 9 years, I find that coaches like this are the exception not the rule.

When Little Monkey was leaving our old gym, we were lucky that she was able to try out on a day off so she didn't have to lie about where she had been. However, after we left, one of her coaches told another parent that "she's not going to make it at XYZ (new gym) and will be back". And several other mean things were said by adult coaches, to other parents, about my TEN YEAR OLD!

 

[gasrgoose]

You're totally proving my point. You say you want the family to be honest and not "sneak", but then you also say "After all once you try another gym you have shaken the faith of your child in the program so they are done anyways..." It is stuff like this that makes parents feel as though they HAVE to sneak....

Perhaps you should state in your team handbook that checking out other gyms will not be tolerated. If you do it, you are "done". Clearly, this is the way you run your gym, and parents should know this upfront, right? I mean, so everyone is honest... This is a pretty important thing to know about a program that a parent is putting their child in.

Chalk bucket parents generally seem more knowledgeable than the average gym parent, and the majority of the parents here feel that "sneaking" is the best way. Coaches, don't put this all on the parents....if you don't like sneaking, then make it known that it is okay to be upfront. Clearly, the attitude of "try another gym and you are done" doesn't encourage families to be open.

Last year one of DD's teammates was struggling and tried out at another gym, and called at least one more. Her parents decided she was in the best place, and she stayed at the gym. After seeing what else was out there, their confidence in the gym increased. While coaches and experienced parents may be familiar with all the local gyms, compulsory parents usually won't be.

You have to understand that the "sneaking" is not done out of a desire to be deceitful. Families may want to investigate the options, think things over, and many may be unsure if they truly want to leave. If you have gymnasts try other gyms and choose to stay with you, isn't that a good thing? I don't think most kids would consider the relationship "utterly destroyed" and it's a shame that a coach would. Even if a family checks out a different gym, it doesn't mean that they don't think you're just great There can be may reasons for a gym switch.

Research the gym without the child involved. Go watch practices, talk with current parents, research online results, check out the coaching situation (turnover?, owner/coach or absent owner?). Then make the decision that your current gym IS or ISN"T the correct gym for your child. If it IS the correct gym then your kid never goes to tryout at another gym. If it ISN'T the correct gym then you should be leaving. Take your child to your favorite 2 gyms and decide. It's not as if in a 4 hour practice or a 20 hour week a kid is going to develop relationships comparable to the former gym. What is a kid going to say about a practice session that will sway your opinion? If the kid is remotely talented the new gym will want the new student (more income and another talent to develop). So the new gym will give the kid plenty of attention and want them to have a good experience. If you've done your research you should already know if the new gym produces results, develops respectful gymnasts, etc and how they get there.

I just don't get the mentality that taking a 8,9,10,11,12, or even 14 year old gymnast and saying your current gym probably isn't working out so "we are going to try out at a couple of gyms". And then saying "OK the other gyms weren't what we thought so just stay where you are and work hard and believe in your coaches, even though things were so bad we had you check out other gyms. Oh yea and lie to your coaches, just tell them you were sick." I just can't see very many positive outcomes to that scenario.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

You're totally proving my point. You say you want the family to be honest and not "sneak", but then you also say "After all once you try another gym you have shaken the faith of your child in the program so they are done anyways..." It is stuff like this that makes parents feel as though they HAVE to sneak....

Perhaps you should state in your team handbook that checking out other gyms will not be tolerated. If you do it, you are "done". Clearly, this is the way you run your gym, and parents should know this upfront, right? I mean, so everyone is honest... This is a pretty important thing to know about a program that a parent is putting their child in.

Chalk bucket parents generally seem more knowledgeable than the average gym parent, and the majority of the parents here feel that "sneaking" is the best way. Coaches, don't put this all on the parents....if you don't like sneaking, then make it known that it is okay to be upfront. Clearly, the attitude of "try another gym and you are done" doesn't encourage families to be open.

Last year one of DD's teammates was struggling and tried out at another gym, and called at least one more. Her parents decided she was in the best place, and she stayed at the gym. After seeing what else was out there, their confidence in the gym increased. While coaches and experienced parents may be familiar with all the local gyms, compulsory parents usually won't be.

You have to understand that the "sneaking" is not done out of a desire to be deceitful. Families may want to investigate the options, think things over, and many may be unsure if they truly want to leave. If you have gymnasts try other gyms and choose to stay with you, isn't that a good thing? I don't think most kids would consider the relationship "utterly destroyed" and it's a shame that a coach would. Even if a family checks out a different gym, it doesn't mean that they don't think you're just great There can be may reasons for a gym switch.

I think you misinterpreted what I said. The faith is shaken within the child, is what I meant.
Also almost 100 percent of the time we find out, so just step up.... Your not sneaking you just look like you are, and then we ask and get lied too, the end...

 

[Granny Smith]

Well if people are looking to switch gyms and are doing the research, I'd gather that their "faith" has already been shaken. If you're looking, you don't go look with no reason. Something must not be quite right anyway.

 

[gracyomalley]

I think in most cases there is no way for this situation to go terribly well. We have, in general, a fairly dysfunctional situation here -

Parents are advocating for what is best for their child and family (right thing to do) and as time goes on sometimes that changes (ie the best gym at age 4 may not be the best gym at L4 which may not be the best gym at L8 or when certain coaches have moved, or family finances change, or a kid's learning style changes, or different social dynamics develop, or a whole myriad of reasons....). We actually don't always think the "new" gym will make them Olympians - maybe just happier or in gym longer, or whatever....

Coaches often have invested a huge amount of personal time and energy into said kid (perhaps from age 4...) and the social fabric of the gym is affected when any one athlete changes or leaves gymnastics - in particular one who has been there a long time or is higher up in the levels.

Kids are socially very invested in their gym family, and frankly so are parents often (we do spend a great deal of time involved in this activity).

Unfortunately, its a small gym world in each area - and when a kid changes gyms there is sometimes more back-stabbing, nastiness at competitions, criticism of other coaches styles, etc. (At least in our area). At DD old gym this went to the point of old coach for years talking about how much better different gymnasts would have been doing if they had stayed with her...to the team girls!

In the end, parents try to do what's best for the kid within the family. In our case, initially that meant that my boys spent 4 years competing for a different team than DD...but that lead to increased cost, difficult travel issues, volunteering issues, and because the 2 HCs had great animosity toward each other, it was hard for myself and my kids to fully embrace supporting either gym and each other....As the girls program at the boys gym grew and the coaching there improved, while the optional coaching at her previous gym clearly was not as strong as the compulsory level had been, I began to consider changing her - of course, I knew the "new gym's" programs intimately because of my boys, so I knew that not all DD old coach said was really true. In the end, I made a PARENTING decision based upon all the above and some issues with ethics/safety that DD needed to change. DD really had no say in it, and actually may end up being done with gymnastics over this. Her old coach was initially gracious -but as expected has now moved on to spreading rumors and telling partial truths about our family - to the girls at the gym.

Of course, the whole issue of "trying out a gym" is fraught with problems - but I do think it might sometimes lead to a kid/family knowing they DON'T want to change - we did try this gym when the boys first began competing, but there were clearly issues then that did made it not a good choice for DD. We didn't sneak about over it, but I also didn't say to her old coach, "hey, we're gonna see how the other gym is". Lying is inappropriate of course. But really, if you decide as a parent that your child learns better at a different school, no one faults you for trying it out! No matter how close the coaches get to the kids, we are still the parents - we may not be experts in gymnastics, but in the end we are responsible for the kids!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

In the ideal world, all coaches would be like coachp, but unfortunately after having a competitive gymnast for over 9 years, I find that coaches like this are the exception not the rule.

When Little Monkey was leaving our old gym, we were lucky that she was able to try out on a day off so she didn't have to lie about where she had been. However, after we left, one of her coaches told another parent that "she's not going to make it at XYZ (new gym) and will be back". And several other mean things were said by adult coaches, to other parents, about my TEN YEAR OLD!

==
I am certainly not painting myself to be a saint, If you sneak I will find out and bye bye, and if your child lies to me about it,,, then our relationship will pretty much be over,, I don't like being lied to. But if you are upfront and say we are going to switch/try gyms, I won't jump up and down for joy, but at least I have the opportunity to try and work it out and in all past incidents the relationship between me and that parent/child was cordial. Several have even asked to return, to date I have taken back two(they both left because of the lengthy drive, and returned a few months later). I have not taken back any of the others who left because "our gym wasn't as good as the other one",, But am friendly with them at meets,

Well if people are looking to switch gyms and are doing the research, I'd gather that their "faith" has already been shaken. If you're looking, you don't go look with no reason. Something must not be quite right anyway.

Your not getting it, The relationship between a child and a coach is built on a foundation, if the child does not respect the coach then they don't listen. When you take your child to another gym, you are basically telling the child that the old coach is not good enough and the child loses respect for the coach. Then you decide to return and (I have seen this several times!) the child does not respond to the coaches and production goes down. very hard to undue this.
==
Also, if your current gym has upper level kids, then those kids have all gotten to know the older kids at other teams and they all insta, or FB each other, so the tryout will get back to your existing club within 24 hours... So just be upfront and take the high road!

 

[Midwestmommy]

I am pretty big on honesty, but yet I would not recommend being upfront before you even know if the new gym will offer your child a spot, at least not in every circumstance. This is usually a decision involving both the gymnast and parents. The parents pay the money and handle all the logistics. From threads on this board, it seems that gyms who (from the start) build good relationships and value communication and trust with the parents are the exception not the rule. Kind of crazy when there is so much technology out there now to make information available without even having to have a conversation. So if the foundation is not there and for sure if they fear "retaliation" or hurting the athlete's relationship with the coach, then the kids and parents have to do what seems best for the child at that point. I also think that parents and kids thinking it is going to remain a secret are on thin ice, kids all go to various schools together and all talk. I know of one girls on our team tried out at a different team and wasn't offered a spot because they are jam packed over there and trying to find more coaches. I only know because my daughter's friend who goes to the other gym told my daughter and my daughter told me. I have no idea if the coaches know, and the parents don't know I know. I would never tell anyone else and told my daughter not to, let someone else feed the rumor monster. As far as I'm concerned it's in the past, and there is no value in dwelling on it or stirring the pot.

 

[Midwestmommy]

PS, our current gym is doing a wonderful job at communication, we are some of the lucky ones. And I am pretty loyal to them, I can't perceive a scenario at this point that would make us want to switch. Good communication goes a long way toward building relationships and loyalty. And being at a gym that cares about the goals and progress of your particular child.

 

[Granny Smith]

==

Your not getting it, The relationship between a child and a coach is built on a foundation, if the child does not respect the coach then they don't listen. When you take your child to another gym, you are basically telling the child that the old coach is not good enough and the child loses respect for the coach. Then you decide to return and (I have seen this several times!) the child does not respond to the coaches and production goes down. very hard to undue this.
==
Also, if your current gym has upper level kids, then those kids have all gotten to know the older kids at other teams and they all insta, or FB each other, so the tryout will get back to your existing club within 24 hours... So just be upfront and take the high road!

What you are not getting is that the relationship can be faultered well before looking at other gyms, which actually leads to the looking. I can't see why you don't understand that people don't just go look at other gyms just to see what's going on. People are looking because something is not right. Like the foundation has been shifted, the relationship that exists between the coach and the child has changed, maybe they are not listening already. People do not go looking elsewhere if things are all hunky-dory.

I fully understand that kids talk, even if parents do not, so word gets around. I also know that when you have a child at a higher level that most likely the minute you walk through the other gym's doors that the coaches, gymnasts and other parents that are there probably know who you are from seeing you at meets. I took my dd to another gym, to watch practice (once and yes we skipped practice, but there was a back story, which I am not going to get into). I actually called her out of the gym that night and simply stated, she was not coming in, period. We went to the other gym and they instantly saw us watching. The one girl knew who was my dd was, as they were friends on FB. I did not care what her current coach said when we returned. I was ready to walk out the door of the old gym if her coach wanted us out. I would never of visited another gym without the knowledge that current coach was going to find out where we were, I assumed she would. It didn't matter. Sadly, at that time, I could not get my dd to leave her old gym. She did eventually leave, months later and she did end up at this gym that we visited.

Maybe by taking my dd to another gym to see what else was out there was my way of saying "she was good enough and better than her coach at the time was saying." I'm telling ya, people don't go looking when things are hunky-dory...

 

[gasrgoose]

Of course, the whole issue of "trying out a gym" is fraught with problems - but I do think it might sometimes lead to a kid/family knowing they DON'T want to change - we did try this gym when the boys first began competing, but there were clearly issues then that did made it not a good choice for DD. We didn't sneak about over it, but I also didn't say to her old coach, "hey, we're gonna see how the other gym is". Lying is inappropriate of course. But really, if you decide as a parent that your child learns better at a different school, no one faults you for trying it out! No matter how close the coaches get to the kids, we are still the parents - we may not be experts in gymnastics, but in the end we are responsible for the kids!

Could you not have found these "clear issues" without taking your child to try out? I'm not condemning you and understand the motivation of trying to do what's best for your kid. I'm just surprised if there were issues that weren't noticed until your child participated in the practice.

 

[happychaos]

This thread makes me very grateful for Chalkbucket. We have a great place to discuss the ups and downs, and ins and outs of issues like this one. I love reading the different opinions, even if I disagree. Hopefully both parents and coaches can better understand each others position.

Really, the typical non-chalkbucket parent has NO CLUE how to successfully navigate something like a potential gym switch. The only thing most parents know is what they have seen happen to other families, and what a few other parents may have whispered to them in the waiting room. I am so thankful for this place to share and learn from others! I feel much more empowered in dealing with gymnastics "stuff", and of course much more knowledgeable as well.

 

[kandkfunk]

You can definitely see how people's perspectives are influenced by their life experiences. It's interesting to see the different points of view. I really wish I had known about Chalkbucket when we were going through some of these issues.

We moved gyms twice during my DD's career. Once was not by choice. Her gym closed and we only had one other on short notice during competition season. I was very thankful that they extended the offer to take in most of our compulsory team. However, that gym was not a good fit. We knew relative quickly that we would not be staying past the end of the competition season. We picked another gym close to our house that was brand new, but where we knew many of the team kiddos and the owner. My DD still had to try out to see if she would be a good fit for their program - would she get along with the coach, did her personality fit with the rest of the team, etc. We quietly tried out on a Saturday morning so she didn't have to miss practice, but she had to wait two weeks to find out if she was going to make their team. I never said a word to the current gym because another teammate had decided to make the switch the previous week and that didn't go too well. She gave the gym written notice that she would not be returning after the end of the month. The gym promptly kicked her out that night.

Over the years, I've seen some crazy things in this sport. Owners are protective of their programs (rightly so), coaches take great pride in their athletes and parents just want what's best for their kids. However, sometimes all these things don't align and a change is necessary. For the most part, parents are just trying to do the best they can to navigate a difficult and touchy situation.

 

[Muddlethru]

Your not getting it, The relationship between a child and a coach is built on a foundation, if the child does not respect the coach then they don't listen. When you take your child to another gym, you are basically telling the child that the old coach is not good enough and the child loses respect for the coach!

Families switch gyms for many reasons outside of coaching deficiencies. Reasons could range from gym management, bad relations with other families, relations with fellow gymnasts, coaching style (not necessarily coaching ability), location, finances, etc. Parents try to find the most suitable gym for their daughter, their family, their situations. The 'sneaking" around is there because often times we really are not certain we should switch or which gym is the best for our daughter until we look around. Unless we look around, we do not know what deficiencies/issues we are willing to live with. The "perfect" gym could be the current gym and we do not want to jeopardize that. By your own admission (highlighted above), considering a switch is tantamount to telling the coach he/she is not good enough no matter the reason. If a gymnast told you she was looking to switch gyms and then decided to stay, also by your own admission, the relationship has already been jeopardized and trust broken on both the coach and gymnast. The gymnast and the family is doomed no matter what we do.

Research the gym without the child involved. Go watch practices, talk with current parents, research online results, check out the coaching situation (turnover?, owner/coach or absent owner?). Then make the decision that your current gym IS or ISN"T the correct gym for your child. If it IS the correct gym then your kid never goes to tryout at another gym. If it ISN'T the correct gym then you should be leaving. Take your child to your favorite 2 gyms and decide. It's not as if in a 4 hour practice or a 20 hour week a kid is going to develop relationships comparable to the former gym. What is a kid going to say about a practice session that will sway your opinion? If the kid is remotely talented the new gym will want the new student (more income and another talent to develop). So the new gym will give the kid plenty of attention and want them to have a good experience. If you've done your research you should already know if the new gym produces results, develops respectful gymnasts, etc and how they get there.

I just don't get the mentality that taking a 8,9,10,11,12, or even 14 year old gymnast and saying your current gym probably isn't working out so "we are going to try out at a couple of gyms". And then saying "OK the other gyms weren't what we thought so just stay where you are and work hard and believe in your coaches, even though things were so bad we had you check out other gyms. Oh yea and lie to your coaches, just tell them you were sick." I just can't see very many positive outcomes to that scenario.

Things are not as simple as checking out a gym and determining based on watching practice, researching online, talking with parents, etc., which is the best gym for our children or for our situation. The gymnast has to physically experience the situation. I could thoroughly research a home and love it but when I go to see it, it just does not feel like home. In addition, if we determine at one time a gym is a perfect fit, things change; coaches leave, they hire new coaches, management changes, fees go up, new gymnasts come in. All these can affect the current situation and make it less suitable.

What coaches see as a lie, sneaking or covering up is a standard and I think acceptable practice. People getting a divorce, moving houses, getting a new job, having another child, looking for another job, putting aside money for a rainy day, even just buying a new outfit, etc. all find it necessary to "lie" or withhold the truth. It has been my experience that coaches like to tell parents and gymnasts to jump and expect us to say how high. Coaches talk to us only when they are good and ready. And we parents have to wait for whatever scraps of information they are willing to throw our way. I am sorry but when the power shifts, it does not feel good.