Coaches Coaching etiquette

[Deleted member 14190]

I know in our own state, the State board will get involved if a coach is encouraging another athlete to leave the current gym for his/her own. But isn't it also a simple breach of coaching etiquette to propose that a child leave one program for another? (particularly if the child is doing well) Isn't there an unspoken bond with coaches to , at the very least, respect other coaches and let people make up their own minds? After all, much of what we hear is only hear say and frankly could have no merit at all...

 

[raenndrops]

I think it is a matter of not necessarily perspective (from the coach's point of view) but still perspective. I will explain. It would be wrong (in my eyes) to approach a gymnast from another team: at a meet, at a state function, at her school, at her home, in most public places...
It would be ok (again, in my eyes) to approach a gymnast: In your own gym, which she chose to come to of her own accord, not for the purposes related to her team.
TO put it plainly, don't approach another team's gymnast unless she comes up to you at your gym and asks to work out with your team... or MAYBE, just maybe if she comes to open gym regularly at your facility.

 

[Aussie_coach]

That is awful. Yes, it is totally innapropriate to try and poach another coaches or gyms gymnasts. In fact it is a sign of a poor coach. If you don't have the system to develop your own outstanding gymnasts and new to poach others then you need to look at your own coaching ability.

 

[iwannacoach]

I'd have to say that poaching is unacceptable, but I have a conflict with that if it's taken as a strict edict. I'll pose a situation to see what others might say about it.

I'd first say that as a coach and student of the sport I have an approximate idea of what's going on inside a given program once I've been through a meet in the same group/rotation as another team. If I see the same program at another meet, plus state, and again a few more times the following season I'll have a pretty firm idea about what that program is about. I'll also have noticed if the kids on the team have moved up in the same numbers and at the same rate as many of their peers from other gyms have.

Going one step further, let's say the first of those two years I noticed a few obviously talented kids who did just ok due to poor technique and terrible execution, but appeared very happy and excited with their progress/experience. So the following season rolls around and I see these two kids at a meet I've taken my team to. What I notice is that both of these girls have learned next to nothing, still have terrible execution, are each nursing a minor/moderate injury, and seem generally upset and frustrated during warm ups, and walk off with their heads tilted the wrong direction after their competition routines. Take this example one year further with the trend remaining the same and consider what it might be like to have had your own gymnastics experience be a carbon copy of the one these two gymnasts had.

My feeling is these two, and others like them, are not getting the help they want and need.... and they're either on the edge of deciding their coach ain't cutting the muster, or blaming themselves for even thinking they had some ability or any reason to expect better from their coach.

I'll add in a juicy little kicker....... The coach says things during meet warm ups that just don't make sense, so much so that I find myself wincing and hoping the kids don't get hurt following the advice.

Clearly this is an extreme and rare example that is sadly based upon reality, as I've been subjected to just that scenario. I've never recruited a child away from anyone, and in fact have never gone out of my way to seem approachable. That said, I have to wonder if I maybe rolled my eyes when I should have rolled the dice and struck up a vague conversation with these girls' parents about the weather or a good place to eat just to see if they said something about looking elsewhere.

My pointed question is really this. Does a kid have to suffer through their coach's indifference or inability simply because they walked through that gym's door instead of the one down the street or across town. Their only defense is to choose wisely, but haven't you seen a number of them make a terrible choice and not even know it until it's too late?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Unfair recruiting, (which I can say I have never been a part of). We get around 30 tryouts a year at our gym. We have certain gyms that I will not even look at the kids, these are gyms that we have great relationship with and feel that the coaching is more than adequate to get these kids to college or above. And yes I have turned away some VERY talented kids who are doing quit well now at another gym who will take anyone from anyone. (Yes friendship and mutual respect are worth more to me then accepting a gym jumper). The tryouts that we actually allow to tryout are from gyms that historically just don't do well and or have poached kids from me/everyone in the past. That being said, when we actually sit down with a potential new kids parents, I dig pretty deep and ask them what they are concerned about. We actually interview the parents, and yes I have sent a few of the "I want my kid to be the next olympian" parents away to the next gym, along with a handful of others who I could tell are just trouble...
Lastly, I think it would be great if we as a coaching community here on CB, did a better job at supporting other coaches, even if we don't know them. I have seen coaches here on CB tell other posters to leave the gym they are at, without mentioning "talk to the coach, give it time". Guys,,, we don't have a clue what is really going on and are just taking what these people are saying as the total truth. After coaching for as long as some of you have been, you KNOW that information parents get from a child, is NOT always accurate.... I would hate for one of my parents or your parents, to get on here and post what they think is going on in the gym, and have you or I say, "Go to another gym".... Just saying...

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Etiquete being a code of behavior that identifies behavior in a community. The code of behavior can be dictated by authority or social convention. It sounds as if the rules and actions of the State Board (authority) work for the community. That is terrific.

Lots of reasons to leave a gym. In my gym, I speak using the metaphor of the three legs of the Gymnastics Chair having three legs (athlete, parents and gym/coach). If the support of anyone of the legs is not well coordinated and the chair will tip. If a Gymnasts Chair in our gym is "tippy" a meeting is called and we discuss openly the challenges. On rare occassions we have agreed on a gym change. Fortunetly having an open, repsectfull relationship, introductions, tryouts and eventually acceptance to another program worked for the athletes and families. Our gym worked with the athlete's interest to make the switch. I have seen these athletes grow and enjoy their gymnastics.

Proper etiquete is something to practice and preach.

Best, SBG -

 

[iwannacoach]

Coachp...... I think that's a pretty timely tap on the shoulder. I feel my tendency is to read the thread starter and make a suggestion based upon what they've written. I don't feel it's inappropriate to offer an opinion about a club change based upon what's written in a post because it's the poster's responsibility to be truthful, but in the same context mentioned in my earlier post I need to keep in mind that parents often have no idea of what's going on beneath the surface images they see at their gym. I'll remember to add that thought to future posts as I have in the past, but seem to have forgotten in some recent posts.

I believe we're on the same page with respect to urging parents and kids to stay with their coach and to work through the issue that's gotten them looking for a new gym. My first attempt is to send them back to their original gym when I have any reason to believe they've left a capable program. If they refuse to return to that gym to try to work through whatever issues exist then I'd rather not have them in my program. I feel that there is a moment in every kid-coach-parent triangle where things get stressful or misunderstood, and if parents leave a program with their child and won't take the effort to reconcile matters...... they'll likely do the same when the next issue comes about in my program.

You refer to two concepts I'm very familiar with, friends and respect. I never have, nor will, left a switcher come between me and a friend. The same goes for coaches I respect, friend or not. Those concepts aren't a problem for me nearly as much as the *rare* few coaches who seem to respect no one, and no thing, including the role of a coach. That's a problem for me and it's reflected in what I write because good coaches and good programs are capable of taking care of themselves, but good parents and kids aren't so fortunate.

For parents and their gymnasts, the complete opposite is more true than not. Those who are the most trusting and loyal tend to wait too long to see the handwriting on the wall when their dd's gym sandbags the lower levels, suggests the kids can't learn or won't work, or keeps making promises to fix the problem by doing (insert concept) when it clearly will not. I don't know, but I've never heard of a state board getting involved to protect kids with either dreams or ability from programs that pose as capable of their dreams and abilities when that same gym has shown year afte year that they just aren't a place where that dreams are realized and talent gets a chance to grow.

So what do you do?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i agree 100 percent. but if i read that a coach taped duct tape over a kids mouth cause they wouldn't shut up during practice? YIKES! i'm going to tell them to leave as fast as their hurdle will get them out the door. mutual respect cuts both ways.

 

[iwannacoach]

i agree 100 percent. but if i read that a coach taped duct tape over a kids mouth cause they wouldn't shut up during practice? YIKES! i'm going to tell them to leave as fast as their hurdle will get them out the door. mutual respect cuts both ways.

Mmph vrmff hmmph tfgph 100% right along with you......

 

[Deleted member 14190]

i agree 100 percent. but if i read that a coach taped duct tape over a kids mouth cause they wouldn't shut up during practice? YIKES! i'm going to tell them to leave as fast as their hurdle will get them out the door. mutual respect cuts both ways.

You mean that is a bad thing to do?
In all seriousness, obviously physical abuse is a no brainer and I hope that an actual poster would not have to seek advice in a situation like that. (in other words, they should have sense enough to deal with it without the guidance of online friends).

 

[Deleted member D3987]

some pretty crazy stuff shows up here...

 

[Faith]

Unfair recruiting, (which I can say I have never been a part of). We get around 30 tryouts a year at our gym. We have certain gyms that I will not even look at the kids, these are gyms that we have great relationship with and feel that the coaching is more than adequate to get these kids to college or above. And yes I have turned away some VERY talented kids who are doing quit well now at another gym who will take anyone from anyone. (Yes friendship and mutual respect are worth more to me then accepting a gym jumper).

As a parent though- I am likely to have brought my child for tryouts because for some reason I think your gym might be a better fit.

For example, we recently left our gym because my club level child(so roughly new level 4/5) skills was being asked to train 20 hours a week. She was also asked to train elite in another sport, which she wanted to do (and the gymnastics would have helped), so could only train gymnastics 12-15 hours a week. The club would not allow this, so a choice had to be made.

So here I am at your door because you have a quality programme, and I want to know if you can accommodate DD. There's nothing wrong with her old programme, it just didn't fit. I'd hate for her to be turned away because of the coaches loyalty to the old gym.

Same with various things- I know a kid who wants to do gym for fun, but the gym she's at wants her to train elite. Good gym, not the best fit. Or someone who wants to excel, but the gym doesn't offer it. Or the parents have moved, and it's slightly closer or a better fit for school..

Theres many valid reasons to switch gyms, not just the "grass is greener".

 

[Deleted member 14190]

So here I am at your door because you have a quality programme, and I want to know if you can accommodate DD. There's nothing wrong with her old programme, it just didn't fit. I'd hate for her to be turned away because of the coaches loyalty to the old gym.

===

Each gym is different, but if you call me and you are from one of my friends gyms,,,, sorry. You are in great hands already, work it out....

 

[Faith]

===

Each gym is different, but if you call me and you are from one of my friends gyms,,,, sorry. You are in great hands already, work it out....

You'd rather have a kid leave gymnastics? Honestly we did try to work it out, but they wanted 20 hours or nothing. They knew why dd didn't want to train more hours, and knew why she wanted to keep doing gymnastics.

We left on good terms, with their well wishes for her other sport. But it was as much their choice for us to leave as we didn't fit their programme -of every kid putting in huge hours whether they were headed for elite or level 4.

Surely it's at least worth a chat with the parents and find out the motivation? In a situation like ours where we'd left the gym anyway there's nothing to work out. If the parents are genuine they won't mind a quick phone call to the old gym coach if you are worried about them thinking you poached...?

 

[saddlupasb]

Our gym looks at the kids if they come to our gym and ask but we don't go after other gym's kids ever. There is a gym in town who has a coach who is infamous for this. Not good.