college gymnastics?

[ncaabound]

I have to make a choice soon on whether or not i would like to persue college gymnastics. I am a sophmore and I am a level 8 and will most likely compete level 8 as a junior, so there fore my age is a factor. I am also currently at a gym without a pitt and no guy coaches to spot big skills. Gymnastics is an expensive and time consumming sport and if I do not purse gymnastics on a college level I feel it would be best to get out. One of my questions is do colleges accept level 9 gymnast, I want to aim for a small D1 school Brown, Rutgers, William and Mary, Yale, Bowling Green, George Washington university, ect. Also I would love to know more about what the college gymnastics experiance is like.

 

[coachmolly]

If you're aiming for a scholarship, your options are limited. Of the schools you listed, very few offer full scholarships. But that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile, many teams are willing to take walk-ons who might not have been top level 10s, but have the skills to contribute on specific events. There are also Division 2/3 programs, many of which are located at pretty good academic schools, who might be interested.
My suggestion would be to make your goals clear to your coaches and make a plan. Create a list of helpful and reasonable skill upgrades to be worked on, see if you can get to some camps or other nearby gyms to practice with good spotters and better equipment, and keep checking off small goals. Some colleges offer summer camps which might be a way to introduce yourself to the coaches and show your commitment. Take videos of yourself and your progress and make them available to coaches, show an interest in their program, and keep doing well academically.
If you are going after the college team experience, rather than scholarship money, there are also colleges with club teams that allow you to continue to train, compete, and be a member of a team regardless of your skill level. I really wish my school had a club team, from what I have seen, it looks like an absolute blast!

 

[bpatient]

One of my questions is do colleges accept level 9 gymnast, I want to aim for a small D1 school Brown, Rutgers, William and Mary, Yale, Bowling Green, George Washington university, ect. Also I would love to know more about what the college gymnastics experiance is like.

The site linked below includes links to the websites for NCAA Division I and II teams. You can check the biographies of athletes on the team rosters available at each site to see how many of the athletes were Level 9 rather than Level 10 (or elite) when they entered college. My impression is that very few Level 9 athletes compete on the teams that you listed: for example, in 2006-2007, of about 280 new NCAA gymnasts only 9 Level 9 athletes joined DI teams--but one went to Rutgers, so there is a chance. (FWIW, the former L9 athlete on the current Rutgers roster was not only a good L9 but also an outstanding scholar, as you'd expect of athletes in programs like those of Brown, Yale, etc.)

Link Removed

 

[Deleted member D3987]

it's not really about level. you could be an 8 and have a yurchenko layout full that you can not compete at level 8 cause it's not allowed. this is quite common for some kids.

it's really about what routines you can bring to a program, if they meet the code of a 10.0 start value and if those skill sets are good enough to make a line up at a particular school in a particular year.

they are always first looking at bars. then vault. beam and floor are a dime a dozen.

 

[Bella's Mom]

beam and floor are a dime a dozen.

That really surprises me about beam. I guess because it looks so difficult and technical I assumed that it would be the most difficult apparatus. But heck...what do I know? LOL

 

[bookworm]

it's not really about level. you could be an 8 and have a yurchenko layout full that you can not compete at level 8 cause it's not allowed. this is quite common for some kids.

it's really about what routines you can bring to a program, if they meet the code of a 10.0 start value and if those skill sets are good enough to make a line up at a particular school in a particular year.

they are always first looking at bars. then vault. beam and floor are a dime a dozen.

This is probably true but you are much more marketable as an All Arounder. Having just been through this whole process with my daughter who has been a 10 for a while, I would say that most of the D1 programs are looking for Level 10s or elites. The schools in D2 and D3 seem to have more of the girls who competed level 9 (the Univ of Wisconsin group of schools comes to mind) so you might want to look at those schools....and just because they don't give athletic scholarships , doesn't mean you won't get merit or need money...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

the all arounder is going the way of the dial up phone. obviously, if you are an all arounder that has 4 events that make the line up on any given day then you are highly sought after. but an entire college team does not compete all around. sometimes they designate different all arounders. and it depends on what events they're looking for to fill spots lost to seniors or injuries in any given year. and it is true that they start with 10's and elites and work there way down from there.

 

[bookworm]

the all arounder is going the way of the dial up phone. obviously, if you are an all arounder that has 4 events that make the line up on any given day then you are highly sought after. but an entire college team does not compete all around. sometimes they designate different all arounders. and it depends on what events they're looking for to fill spots lost to seniors or injuries in any given year. and it is true that they start with 10's and elites and work there way down from there.

I guess my point on the All Arounder was how she as a level 9 would market her skills...I realize that colleges use girls for different events and only a few actually DO the AA but I still think they like to have that as a starting point with the recruitable athlete....I think that unless you're someone like a Kayla Williams (who won vault at Worlds), you are going to need more than one event to get on a team

 

[Deleted member D3987]

actually, if you can vault a 10.0 start and have 3 decent events you're in. if you can bars a 10.0 start with 2 major releases and a big dismount and have 3 decent events you're in. if you have both vault and bars you're in on a full athletic scholarship. and kayla was recruited because of her vault. now her vault is not so good. she can't do bars and beam and her floor is still just okay. she has a way to go before she enters college at georgia.

college is about putting up your best 'specialist' on each event. same with the men. look at posted college scores. you'll be surprised at how many events they compete from meet to meet.

and unfortunately...this is the path that the FIG and elite athletes are now on.

 

[ZJsMom]

This is an interesting conversation. My dd has a friend who's a junior and is a first year level 10 who'd like to do NCAA. I've wondered about her prospects since many of the scholarships seem to go to girls who've been to Nationals multiple times already. She's good at vault though. I always assumed that that a full twisting yurchenko would be a golden ticket to NCAA since there are many teams that don't have 6 10 start value vaults to put up. Am I right, or are you saying you need a 10 start value on 3 events?

ON a side note, I'm pretty sure Kayla williams is committed to Alabama. I also think your selling her a bit short. She may not be a world class vaulter any more but I think she'll be fine doing FTY in college. All of her routines score fine in level 10.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you might be right. i can't remember right off if she verballed to alabama or georgia. my point was that things change. but not all 10.0 routines are equal either. i guess the main point is that college teams change from year to year. 1 year the team needs 2 vaulters. the next 2 bar workers. the next maybe both. they almost never need beamers and floor workers cause they're in plentiful supply. but if you have a marquee tumbler [and have never been to nationals] with a double layout, full in, triple full, 2 1/2 twist punch front, etc; you'll make a team if your other 3 events are decent. just watch college videos and you'll see what i'm talking about.

it is true that they recruit from the eligible elite pool and level 10 national qualifiers first. they always have. the best all-arounders/specialists reside at these 2 levels. but if you have a bar routine [and have never been to nationals] that consists of say a jaeger, tkatchev, bail hand/pak salto, giant full to double lay or full out the college coach will be recruiting you hard if he/she feels that you can bring at least 2 other events that are solid under the college code where you can step in an score a 9.8. a 9.8 translates to approx a 9.4 under JO rules. kids that score 36-38 in JO typically score 37.5-39.5 at the college level.

no, a kid won't make a beam squad with a flip flop flip flop series on beam. or just a double back on floor unless that college team is desparate. and without naming any names, at least 2 programs went to their cheerleaders/former gymnasts to try to field a vaulting and floor ex team. i've seen all kinds of things that make no sense to most of us coaches but make sense for that college team and their needs in any given year. if the first 2 have a big vault or a complex bar routine? they'll be in and the college coach looks elsewhere in the food chain for what he/she needs for the next year and so on as they lose kids to graduation, medical, poor grades, drinking issues, drug issues, pregnancy and other life issues that impact ALL of college sports and their athletes.

so, with all that said, i certainly am not knocking kayla. i've known her before she was a world champion on vault. but things change in our sport and her graduating class has not signed yet. there are no guarantees. i'm attempting to be as honest as i possibly can be while at the same time giving encouragement to parents with gymnasts that college gymnastics is in reach for most kids. not all. and if you're considering it work your butts off on bars and vault. those 2 events are the most sought after plain and simple. ask any college coach what they are in most need of.

 

[bookworm]

Kayla is a Senior so wouldn't she have signed her National Letter of Intent this past November (of 2010)? She's going to Alabama with Brooke Parker and Kaitlyn Clark I believe...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

lost track of time on that. i suppose then that she already signed.

 

[bpatient]

ncaabound raised another interesting point that has been subsumed by this discussion of the path to NCAA gymnastics. Although I appreciate the input from experts such as dunno and bookworm, from my perspective as someone who knows no more about gymnastics than can be learned by driving a kid to practice for eleven years it seems that it may be as important to address ncaabound’s implicit question of ‘when should I choose to emphasize activities other than gymnastics?’ as it is to consider the skills that will be required to compete in the NCAA.

Recall that ncaabound wrote:

Gymnastics is an expensive and time consumming [sic] sport and if I do not purse [sic] gymnastics on a college level I feel it would be best to get out.

That sort of question occurs to all of us as we mature, and as our options inexorably narrow. In gymnastics terms, how should ncaabound and athletes like her choose when it is appropriate to shift gears? This question may be easily answered by kids who are scoring 36+ at Level 10, but what about the vast majority of kids who may share ncaabound’s dreams? Really, at some point it’s prudent to adopt new dreams—we all do that, as it’s an important aspect of maturing. If ncaabound hopes to attend Brown, Yale, or the other schools on her list, she's going to have to hit the books whether or not she continues to train as a gymnast: the Brown University gymnastics coach remarked last year that Brown rejects seven of ten high school valedictorians who apply.

FWIW, my eighth grader--a kid about ncaabound's age--is considering that same question, and I don’t know what to tell her. Last week dd worriedly asked me if her coaches would continue to help her to learn new skills if she chooses not to compete next year so that she can concentrate on her studies. Dd has been working on E skills, but she’s concerned that her (dedicated, knowledgeable and wonderfully compassionate) coaches will be disappointed in her decision to concentrate on her studies and so might let her stagnate at her current level of expertise. I don’t know what to tell her; her coaches certainly have an interest in her continuing to advance their program, and I suppose that pointing to their gymnasts who have gone on to scholarship glory might be an important marketing tool, but each kid is different, and each kid has to find his or her own path. I wish that there was a Level 10 equivalent to the excellent Xcel program for kids who love the sport but who aren’t interested in devoting the time necessary to prepare for competing in college.

 

[Granny Smith]

My dd is a freshman in HS. She is hoping to one day do gymnastics in college, she is currently a level 9. It has always been expressed at our gym that vault and bars is what gets the scholarships, so I have always believe that. Dd is a strong bars worker and not as strong in vault, but she still works it and is progressing. I would never turn my dd away from the sport just because I thought that she wasn't going to get a scholarship and how expensive the sport is. She is learning many things while in the sport: time management, dedication, work ethic, etc. The gym also keeps her out of trouble. She's in the gym for many hours a week (she does attend a brick & mortar HS). She has great friends at the gym too, like her sisters who all share in a common goal. She is not bored, hanging on a street corner, doing drugs or drinking. If she can make it through HS without getting pregnant or doing any of the other extra curriculars that I just mentioned then I think the gym has served it's purpose. The tuition for gym might seem expensive, but it doesn't compare to the costs of the other extra curriculars that I mentioned. Also, quite honestly, if she wasn't doing gym and I didn't have to pay gym tuition and all that goes with gym then I am sure that the money would be going to some other activity that she would pick up. I try not to focus on the financial aspect of the sport because that is a very small part of the whole picture. JMHO!

 

[gymcoach34]

ncaabound raised another interesting point that has been subsumed by this discussion of the path to NCAA gymnastics. Although I appreciate the input from experts such as dunno and bookworm, from my perspective as someone who knows no more about gymnastics than can be learned by driving a kid to practice for eleven years it seems that it may be as important to address ncaabound’s implicit question of ‘when should I choose to emphasize activities other than gymnastics?’ as it is to consider the skills that will be required to compete in the NCAA.

Recall that ncaabound wrote:



That sort of question occurs to all of us as we mature, and as our options inexorably narrow. In gymnastics terms, how should ncaabound and athletes like her choose when it is appropriate to shift gears? This question may be easily answered by kids who are scoring 36+ at Level 10, but what about the vast majority of kids who may share ncaabound’s dreams? Really, at some point it’s prudent to adopt new dreams—we all do that, as it’s an important aspect of maturing. If ncaabound hopes to attend Brown, Yale, or the other schools on her list, she's going to have to hit the books whether or not she continues to train as a gymnast: the Brown University gymnastics coach remarked last year that Brown rejects seven of ten high school valedictorians who apply.

FWIW, my eighth grader--a kid about ncaabound's age--is considering that same question, and I don’t know what to tell her. Last week dd worriedly asked me if her coaches would continue to help her to learn new skills if she chooses not to compete next year so that she can concentrate on her studies. Dd has been working on E skills, but she’s concerned that her (dedicated, knowledgeable and wonderfully compassionate) coaches will be disappointed in her decision to concentrate on her studies and so might let her stagnate at her current level of expertise. I don’t know what to tell her; her coaches certainly have an interest in her continuing to advance their program, and I suppose that pointing to their gymnasts who have gone on to scholarship glory might be an important marketing tool, but each kid is different, and each kid has to find his or her own path. I wish that there was a Level 10 equivalent to the excellent Xcel program for kids who love the sport but who aren’t interested in devoting the time necessary to prepare for competing in college.

Im not sure if I understand your post, especially the part I put in bold. College coaches want gymnasts who can COMPETE, not just do E skills; What good is an E skill if you dont compete it?? Also, gymnastics at that Level is time consuming and takes so much dedication at that level-there is really no way to condense it-unless your DD has all her skills and a great fitness level going into her senior year and then she can just maintain for that year?

 

[bookworm]

That sort of question occurs to all of us as we mature, and as our options inexorably narrow. In gymnastics terms, how should ncaabound and athletes like her choose when it is appropriate to shift gears? This question may be easily answered by kids who are scoring 36+ at Level 10, but what about the vast majority of kids who may share ncaabound’s dreams? Really, at some point it’s prudent to adopt new dreams—we all do that, as it’s an important aspect of maturing. If ncaabound hopes to attend Brown, Yale, or the other schools on her list, she's going to have to hit the books whether or not she continues to train as a gymnast: the Brown University gymnastics coach remarked last year that Brown rejects seven of ten high school valedictorians who apply.

FWIW, my eighth grader--a kid about ncaabound's age--is considering that same question, and I don’t know what to tell her. Last week dd worriedly asked me if her coaches would continue to help her to learn new skills if she chooses not to compete next year so that she can concentrate on her studies. Dd has been working on E skills, but she’s concerned that her (dedicated, knowledgeable and wonderfully compassionate) coaches will be disappointed in her decision to concentrate on her studies and so might let her stagnate at her current level of expertise. I don’t know what to tell her; her coaches certainly have an interest in her continuing to advance their program, and I suppose that pointing to their gymnasts who have gone on to scholarship glory might be an important marketing tool, but each kid is different, and each kid has to find his or her own path. I wish that there was a Level 10 equivalent to the excellent Xcel program for kids who love the sport but who aren’t interested in devoting the time necessary to prepare for competing in college.

I guess I wouldn't say that a kid ever has to quit gymnastics just because they are not going to get a college scholarship, but I think that a lot of girls doing gymnastics think that they will be able to do gymnastics in college so they continue...now whether or not that actually happens is another issue. I think the question should be should the girl continue gymnastics at the intensity she is now doing once she gets to HS or should she branch out and do other things? I think Granny Smith makes a good point in saying that gym keeps them busy and out of trouble... and girls that end up at the Ivies generally have a GPA of 4.0 and SATs in the 700 range and they are usually able to keep up with their gym schedule...my daughter did end up getting a gymnastics scholarship to a D1 school but that doesn't mean she didn't take a day off from gym if her school schedule warranted it because when all is said and done, school comes first.

My daughter had a friend who used her gymnastics to basically put her to the head of the line at the college of her choice so while she didn't actually get scholarship money, gymnastics worked for her in that way. I don't think I would make someone leave the sport because they weren't getting a scholarship because realistically , even taking up a sport in HS, you aren't likely to be scholarshipped in that either so I would maybe downshift the intensity of it but I would let them stick with it.

 

[bpatient]

I think the question should be should the girl continue gymnastics at the intensity she is now doing once she gets to HS or should she branch out and do other things?

Yes, that’s the appropriate question. That’s why I mused about the potential for a not-quite-as-serious training scenario for my kid, which would follow what I thought was a reasonable course when I had to make similar decisions. (For example, for years I bicycled 350 miles a week, year ‘round, but since I stopped racing some years ago I haven’t felt compelled to train as hard, and I’m content to ride just for fun and fitness.) There must be a threshold of training hours that’s required to perform safely and have fun, though, so something like the Xcel/Prep Optional program seems like a good way to continue to enjoy the sport while investing fewer hours each week than would be typical of a college-bound gymnast.

If I read dunno’s comments in the most positive light, it may be that ncaabound could achieve her dream if in the next year or so she, say, develops a terrific vault, but it still seems as though she will have to surmount some serious difficulties. She did indicate that she feels that she has to choose, but, as you suggest, it doesn't have to be an all or none choice.

Oh—gymcoach34, I meant that my daughter hopes to continue to enjoy the sport and to continue to develop new skills throughout her high school years, despite having no interest in competing in college; she’s just interested in training fewer hours than she might if she was seeking a scholarship, so that she can use some of those hours (as bookworm wrote) to "do other things."

 

[gymcoach34]

ahhh, now I get it! Thanks bpatient (I like your name-lol!)

To the OP, dont count out the D2 or D3 schools at all. Make a list of what area of the country you want to be in & what you want to study. Then find out which schools even HAVE gym that fit your category. Then make sure you have the academic requirements (grades, scores, etc). Most likely you wont go D1 for gymnastics, but that does not mean that you shouldn't continue or that you cant find a school w D2 or 3 gymnastics that you LOVE!

 

[coachmolly]

I don't think the question should be should a child quite if a scholarship is out of reach, it should be about whether or not the kid still loves the sport and is committed to it. It had been my long standing goal as a gymnast to compete in college, I didn't care if it was for the worst D3 program in the country, I just wanted to do it. Unfortunately, I had very little support from my coaches in getting there. Injuries, anxiety, and that lack of support in reaching my goals was what led me to leave the sport when I did. There are times I do regret it and wished I had kept going, if nothing else just for fun throughout high school, but I know that my choice was what was best mentally and physically.
I really wish more coaches were open to the options available at D2/3 schools, knowledgeable about the programs, what the coaches are looking for, and how to go about the process.