Women Competing at lower levels

[mazz642]

I know it’s normal for gymnasts to upskill, but to what extent? I ask because I can see on Instagram pages of many other clubs, there are kids who are doing skills that are in routines several levels above what they are competing.

For some examples, performing giants on bars but preparing for level 5 comp season (first level a kip is required), able to do a vault over the vault table to stand (sorry don’t know the actual term) but competing level 4 vault onto three crash mats, doing back and front walkovers on beam but competing level 3 which only requires an L handstand in routine). Does it seem like these kids are actually training higher levels (rather than just ‘upskilling) but compete lower purely so they can ‘win’ and so that clubs can place in the club championships etc? I just can’t see why else this would be. Surely you’d want to compete the skills you can do well. I think my daughter would hate having to compete so much lower than her abilities.
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[gymgal]

Yes, this is common among many gyms. Compete the level where the gymnast can score the highest while training upper skills. Yes it's so they can win but it also builds their confidence which can be a huge advantage in the upper levels.

 

[Dahlia]

They also may have higher level skills on one or two events, but not all, so they really aren't ready to move up.

 

[Aussie_coach]

My ideal is

1. Perfecting skills for their current level
2. Mastering skills for the next level
3. Learning skills 2 levels up
4, drilling skills 3 levels up
5. Conditioning for skills 4 levels up

That sounds like it would take 100 hours a week, but it doesn’t. Gymnasts don’t need to spend too much time in their level skills.

Drilling and conditioning higher level skills can be done as side stations quite often.

 

[mazz642]

My ideal is

1. Perfecting skills for their current level
2. Mastering skills for the next level
3. Learning skills 2 levels up
4, drilling skills 3 levels up
5. Conditioning for skills 4 levels up

That sounds like it would take 100 hours a week, but it doesn’t. Gymnasts don’t need to spend too much time in their level skills.

Drilling and conditioning higher level skills can be done as side stations quite often.

That’s interesting, thanks for the break down! These clubs definitely train a lot more hours than ours which probably allows for more of this. My daughter is level 4 this year and starting on some level 5 skills but I guess I never thought kids would have mastered skills for the level they are likely to be in next year, before the start of their current comp season. Let alone multiple levels above. Eye opening.

 

[mazz642]

Yes, this is common among many gyms. Compete the level where the gymnast can score the highest while training upper skills. Yes it's so they can win but it also builds their confidence which can be a huge advantage in the upper levels.

As a parent I felt a little off when I first saw these instagram pages as I did not realise this, I knew of upskilling just not to this extent, but it's good to know. It's clearly allowed and not like it can be policed, (and for all we know maybe it does happen in other sports too) and if the child is happy competing skills much below what they are capable of, then it is what it is.

 

[Tmacs]

Our gym uptrains 1-2 levels above what they compete so that kids are super comfortable with competition skills and don't develop mental blocks. Also, as previous post suggested, often kids are way ahead on one event but not on others. My dd is comfortably ahead on beam but just now getting full value on L6 bars.

 

[mazz642]

Our gym uptrains 1-2 levels above what they compete so that kids are super comfortable with competition skills and don't develop mental blocks. Also, as previous post suggested, often kids are way ahead on one event but not on others. My dd is comfortably ahead on beam but just now getting full value on L6 bars.

That makes sense! My daughter would be way more likely to successful upskill in bars then beam.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

That makes sense! My daughter would be way more likely to successful upskill in bars then beam.

You also need to remember that generally people cherry pick and post stuff that makes them look good. Which is why some highly followed level 10's basically never post any vault videos or full routines

 

[WV Gym Mom]

I know it’s normal for gymnasts to upskill, but to what extent? I ask because I can see on Instagram pages of many other clubs, there are kids who are doing skills that are in routines several levels above what they are competing.

For some examples, performing giants on bars but preparing for level 5 comp season (first level a kip is required), able to do a vault over the vault table to stand (sorry don’t know the actual term) but competing level 4 vault onto three crash mats, doing back and front walkovers on beam but competing level 3 which only requires an L handstand in routine). Does it seem like these kids are actually training higher levels (rather than just ‘upskilling) but compete lower purely so they can ‘win’ and so that clubs can place in the club championships etc? I just can’t see why else this would be. Surely you’d want to compete the skills you can do well. I think my daughter would hate having to compete so much lower than her abilities.
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Depending on the girls, our gym might uptrain 1-2 levels, to the girls strengths. But that doesn't mean in anyway they are competition ready on all events at higher levels. My gym doesn't hold people back to score better by any means...but they would be bored to tears not uptraining.

On a side note...are you talking USAG? Because the Kip is required for 4, and Level 4 doesn't compete vault on stacked crash mats...and Level three is a full handstand. So I was a bit confused by your post.

 

[mazz642]

Depending on the girls, our gym might uptrain 1-2 levels, to the girls strengths. But that doesn't mean in anyway they are competition ready on all events at higher levels. My gym doesn't hold people back to score better by any means...but they would be bored to tears not uptraining.

On a side note...are you talking USAG? Because the Kip is required for 4, and Level 4 doesn't compete vault on stacked crash mats...and Level three is a full handstand. So I was a bit confused by your post.

Sorry Australia. I should have specified. But yes agree they would def be bored hence why I understand the upskilling but at the same time I think if my daughter was confident in skills a couple of levels above she’d be bored of competing down. Guess it’s a fine line for the coaches to balance for them.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Sorry Australia. I should have specified. But yes agree they would def be bored hence why I understand the upskilling but at the same time I think if my daughter was confident in skills a couple of levels above she’d be bored of competing down. Guess it’s a fine line for the coaches to balance for them.

Since you are in Australia (like myself) you will see a lot of upskilling. Most gyms here follow similar principles of having the girls working skills above their level and Upskilling year round.

Part of it is the way our levels system works, our levels put more emphasis on higher level dance at lower levels and less emphasis on higher level tumbling and skill difficulty.

Which is often backwards, younger kids are in a good window to develop more difficult tumbling and skills, but dance usually takes more maturity.

Upskilling is important because it takes years to develop many skills. In Australia you talent see giants in competition before level 8. But to do it successfully at level 8 in competition you would need a few years of training behind it.

Example - Need to be able to do giants on uneven bars in level 7 to have time to work them for level 8, in a single bar by level 6, in straps by level 5 etc.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I know it’s normal for gymnasts to upskill, but to what extent? I ask because I can see on Instagram pages of many other clubs, there are kids who are doing skills that are in routines several levels above what they are competing.

For some examples, performing giants on bars but preparing for level 5 comp season (first level a kip is required), able to do a vault over the vault table to stand (sorry don’t know the actual term) but competing level 4 vault onto three crash mats, doing back and front walkovers on beam but competing level 3 which only requires an L handstand in routine). Does it seem like these kids are actually training higher levels (rather than just ‘upskilling) but compete lower purely so they can ‘win’ and so that clubs can place in the club championships etc? I just can’t see why else this would be. Surely you’d want to compete the skills you can do well. I think my daughter would hate having to compete so much lower than her abilities.
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It’s generally not done to win, it’s done fir the safety and confidence of the kids.

Also consider the possibility that they may not be at the same standard in all apparatus. For example they may be amazing on beam and have their flics etc in level 4, but not be able to kip so they can’t compete level 5.

 

[mazz642]

Since you are in Australia (like myself) you will see a lot of upskilling. Most gyms here follow similar principles of having the girls working skills above their level and Upskilling year round.

Part of it is the way our levels system works, our levels put more emphasis on higher level dance at lower levels and less emphasis on higher level tumbling and skill difficulty.

Which is often backwards, younger kids are in a good window to develop more difficult tumbling and skills, but dance usually takes more maturity.

Upskilling is important because it takes years to develop many skills. In Australia you talent see giants in competition before level 8. But to do it successfully at level 8 in competition you would need a few years of training behind it.

Example - Need to be able to do giants on uneven bars in level 7 to have time to work them for level 8, in a single bar by level 6, in straps by level 5 etc.

This makes a lot of sense, thanks, particularly with so much emphasis on dance components at lower levels. My daughter is 7 and struggles a lot more with those parts on the beam and floor than the more physical skills.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

This is normal. Our gym has our girls training double backs, giants, yurchenkos etc starting at level 4, even though they won't compete most of those skills for a few years.

 

[JPC13]

That’s interesting, thanks for the break down! These clubs definitely train a lot more hours than ours which probably allows for more of this. My daughter is level 4 this year and starting on some level 5 skills but I guess I never thought kids would have mastered skills for the level they are likely to be in next year, before the start of their current comp season. Let alone multiple levels above. Eye opening.

The 4s at my daughter’s gym all had some version of their 5 skills before the first L4 meet of the year. Most of the 3s have decent kips and double ROBH and could probably compete 4 pretty decently. USA levels, obviously.

 

[Dahlia]

The 4s at my daughter’s gym all had some version of their 5 skills before the first L4 meet of the year. Most of the 3s have decent kips and double ROBH and could probably compete 4 pretty decently. USA levels, obviously.

There is a big difference between having a skill and having a skill that is competition ready.

 

[DataMom]

During the meet season, our girls may work on some skills from the next level, but primarily they work on perfecting skills from the current level. For example, our L3s will sometimes, but not every practice, work on their kips on bars, double BHS on floor, and cartwheel on beam.

 

[Mish]

"Most of the 3s have decent kips and double ROBH and could probably compete 4 pretty decently".

Then why don't they? Do they hold them back to perfect/win level 3??? Seems counterproductive.

 

[ORgymmom]

During the meet season, our girls may work on some skills from the next level, but primarily they work on perfecting skills from the current level. For example, our L3s will sometimes, but not every practice, work on their kips on bars, double BHS on floor, and cartwheel on beam.

Does your gym skip test out of 5 and skip 6? A gym I know has pre-team kids do 2 and 3 skills, and then handpicks girls to “train” Level 3 that already have Level 3 skills, then uptrains seriously in 3 and 4 with the intention of going from 4 to 7.