MAG Compulsory divisions bonus questions

[profmom]

But they don't have to have all the bonuses to compete in Div 1. It's just in Div. 2 no bonuses are counted.

Right, exactly. For our team, the boys have to have approximately 2-3 clean bonuses on all events to do Division 1.

 

[samsmama]

There is a meet in Maryland that specifically asked for the division information on the registration form.

I'm sure there are meets asking for it, I just haven't seen of the ones we're attending specify it for compulsory levels. They do break out JD as a separate thing. We are hosting a meet in a few weeks and the schedule just came out. It has a slot for JD, but the levels are all listed together as usual. Maybe they will break them out by division for awards? How will judges know, though, if it's not listed on the registration form?

 

[profmom]

If format and rotation orders aren't specified in advance, I believe our coach's plan is to have all the kids in one division compete, and then all the kids in the other division, and inform the judges when the switch occurs. He has also heard that the plan is for each division to have separate awards, but hopefully not as many! (I.e., if last year's meet went out ten places for younger L5s, this year's should go out 5 places for D1 and 5 places for D2.) The other big question is how all of this will work for team awards. I wonder if, for instance, they would let JD scores count if a JO team does not have enough guys? Better a 9.0 than a 0, right?

 

[samsmama]

That all makes a lot of sense, profmom! I hope they will let all scores count for team awards. I imagine that at least in the early part of the season, clean non-bonus kids may well outscore some less-polished bonus athletes.

 

[profmom]

That all makes a lot of sense, profmom! I hope they will let all scores count for team awards. I imagine that at least in the early part of the season, clean non-bonus kids may well outscore some less-polished bonus athletes.

Yep. Back when our guys were L5 and their coach would only let them compete really excellent bonuses, their conservative routines were routinely placing above guys competing sloppy ones.

 

[Madden3]

Right, exactly. For our team, the boys have to have approximately 2-3 clean bonuses on all events to do Division 1.

So, if you know, is this a higher bonus requirement than coach required before to compete that Level? Also what level is this and how many possible bonuses are there? 2-3 on each event sounds like a lot of bonuses to me.

 

[profmom]

Our current program director has them compete at a level when they can do solid base routines for that level. We went through a phase a few years ago when the person in charge of L5 did not want the boys moving up to L6 until they could do not only L6 base routines, but most or all of the L6 bonuses.

Basically, this year's crop of L5/L6 guys are mostly the same guys who'd have been doing L5/L6 last year, though I think one or two will be doing bonus L5 instead of moving along to L6. I think most of the bonus guys are guys who will be in their second year in the level. And remember that some of the bonuses are ones that almost all guys should have by the end of the year, while others are competed very infrequently. Two years ago, for instance, a lot of guys were winning L6 rings with two bonuses, and occasionally pbars too. But I don't think I saw a single routine on pbars without the uprise.

 

[Juniper311]

I'm sure there are meets asking for it, I just haven't seen of the ones we're attending specify it for compulsory levels. They do break out JD as a separate thing. We are hosting a meet in a few weeks and the schedule just came out. It has a slot for JD, but the levels are all listed together as usual. Maybe they will break them out by division for awards? How will judges know, though, if it's not listed on the registration form?

The one at Fairland will have all boys in a level compete in the same session. However, Div1 and Div2 will be called out on each score card, to let the judges know. I wouldn't be surprised if the coaches choose to arrange their boys to specifically group div1/div2 kids together, but coaches always play with presentation order anyway.

Compulsory awards will be divided into Div1 and Div2 for each level, but going out fewer places that in the past. Compulsory team awards will be calculated by the top scores in a a level, regardless of division.

 

[samsmama]

That's good to know! We will be at that meet too.

 

[gymboymom]

I'm wondering why it matters to the judges if a gymnast is in division 1 or 2? Isn't the routine scored the same regardless? Is there a difference besides they aren't doing bonus skills? I guess if they puts them in, they shouldn't get credit. Anything else?

 

[Juniper311]

The judges make cryptic little marks while the gymnast is doing the routine. They have a mark for every movement they see be it an addition to the score for virtuosity, a deduction to the score for a fault, marking that a required element was left off, that a bonus element was attempted, etc. So, if a gymnast is Division 2, and does a move that should be a bonus, the judge needs to know *not* to make a mark for that move (assuming that the judge isn't supposed to actually throw in a deduction... in which case the judge needs to know to make a mark for the deduction). Not knowing could cause screw ups in scoring. NOBODY wants screw ups in scoring.

 

[Madden3]

So, is there a set date during the season, up to which a gymnast can change divisions? And can this change go either way?

 

[Juniper311]

Division changes are fluid. You can bump up or down whenever. Now, each meet you go to has its own deadlines after which they may not honor changes IF it messes up their sessions or rotations.

For instance, if a meet happens in early December, registrations have probably closed by now. In the next couple of weeks – say by Thanksgiving at the latest – the organizers would have a Session schedule done. After that point if a coach decides to change an athlete division... and that meet already has the score cards made up, etc... that may be considered an unreasonably timed change, for THAT meet.

 

[Madden3]

Thanks!

 

[SPX]

This has been a very interesting read. The information the coaches gave us is that the boys will compete div I when they solidly have half the bonuses. Division will be determined either at the time of registration if required or at least a week prior to the meet. I think most of the kids in level for the 1st year will start in div 2 and some may move up to div 1 later. While most of the 2nd year boys will start in div 1. I know it has been a strong motivator for the boys to work hard to clean up the routines and their bonuses.

 

[MrsAnderson]

I'm curious how many boys will have a lot of their bonuses or be second year level whatevers and still compete in Div 2 just to guarantee medals? I can totally imagine that in girls gymnastics, is that something that may happen in boys?

 

[profmom]

I'm curious how many boys will have a lot of their bonuses or be second year level whatevers and still compete in Div 2 just to guarantee medals? I can totally imagine that in girls gymnastics, is that something that may happen in boys?

It will depend on the team and its philosophy. I don't think it will be as prevalent as on the girls' side, since competing in the non-bonus division will not help teams to win team banners if all scores in a level from both divisions count toward team awards. What you may see is the other form of sandbagging -- guys who are clearly ready to compete the higher non-bonus division staying back a level and competing bonus.

 

[Madden3]

I'm curious how many boys will have a lot of their bonuses or be second year level whatevers and still compete in Div 2 just to guarantee medals? I can totally imagine that in girls gymnastics, is that something that may happen in boys?

My son is a repeating his Level and is probably competing Div 2. That is why I started this thread, so I could understand the coach's reasoning and help my son understand, as he was quite upset about it as he expected as a 2nd year he would be Div 1. The comments here, (and I very much appreciate everyone walking me though this) have helped me understand the coach's reasoning, as my son currently has only about 5 bonuses total, plus is struggling a bit with a couple required elements.

I can assure you in this case there is not an attempt to guarantee medals on the coach's part or our part. The journey from 5-6 has been rough for my son, and he had a very rough season last year and never medaled the whole season, when he was used to medaling on a few things every meet. At this point there are no guarantees- in fact I fear that the focus on very good form in Div 2 might even make things harder for my son, but from what many are saying here, Div 2 is probably the right place for him. He is trying to get enough bonuses to do Div 1 but not sure that is going to happen.

We have always stressed that it is about having fun, working hard and doing your best, not placement or medals. And amazingly that must have sunk in, because last season he kept an excellent attitude throughout and never gave up. He made me very proud.

 

[2G1B]

There was a judges cup this weekend in GA and after looking at the scores I have some thoughts (I wasn't there, so I'm only looking at scores, no idea of the actual routines)...

I can understand doing DIV 2 for most of the season; but if it gets to state and you have ANY bonuses, wouldn't it be best to go to Div 1 and compete what you have? I'm guessing that regionals will be just the top scores, no matter the division. Especially with the lower SVs even with bonuses, the difference between Div 1 and 2 is not significant, so theoretically it could be possible for some top scores to be from the Div 2 kids. But, if a kid has bonuses on only 1 event, if the goal is to make regionals, then having those bonuses could make the difference (we have had .1 be all that separated a kid who made regionals and a kid who didn't). I guess if the gym's goal is a state champ rather than making regionals then it might be better to do Division 2...

 

[profmom]

As the parent of a (aggghhhh!) soon-to-be L9, I can assure you that time spent really mastering fundamentals is never wasted.