Parents Consequences

[lovegymnastics22]

For the parents: Do your coaches ever 'punish' the team for the actions of one kid? So if one kid falls on a skill then all girls have to do 5 additional repeats. Or if a girl isn't doing the conditioning right they all have to do extra? Or if a kid drops food on the floor or is late. etc. Does this bother your child and create anxiety?

For the coaches: I'm trying to understand why does this help? I feel like this is making the girls who fall feel horrible and creating huge anxiety even in the ones who don't that they might fall. It also seems to make the girls who don't fall resent the ones who do, although this is not the issue I have with my DD. But overall it seems to be killing team spirit instead of helping them bond, unless you consider their collective dislike for the coaches "team spirit".

I really want to talk to my DDs coaches about how much anxiety this is causing in her and the other little girls but I wanted to see if other people's experience is that this is actually an effective strategy.

 

[MILgymFAM]

My DD has had to do extra conditioning when other girls were caught cheating conditioning, but never on things related to skills. She likes conditioning, so doesn't really mind, but some girls get really mad. I always thought the idea was the peer pressure of all the girls being mad at extra work you caused would keep you from cheating. That's kinda how my hubby describes military training, so he clearly approves of the tactic. I can't see how it's helpful on skill work though. At my DDs gym all the girls are working different skills, so how could one person falling on a cartwheel effect someone else doing BHS series, know what I mean?

 

[auswi]

Never happens at any level at our gym...do not see it as effective.

 

[lovegymnastics22]

That's kinda how my hubby describes military training, so he clearly approves of the tactic.

I feel like I agree this can be an effective tactic in the military but it seems to be wildly out of context for a group of little girls.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

No, no consequences to the kids. They do get the occasional lecture about giving their all during conditioning, taking care of bathroom needs prior to the start of practice (cause this is how they get out of full conditioning).

Us parents have been known to get a group dressing down though. And while that makes me cranky as long as they don't take it out on the kids I'm fine.

For example being late. First of all the kids don't drive, why would you "punish" them. We do our best to be on time, and with school, getting her ready and fed, it's tight throw in an accident to muck up traffic, oh well . You want to send me an email fine.

 

[my4buffaloes]

The only thing like that our gym does is if the coaches say "everyone in plank" then they won't start counting until everyone is in plank. So for those listening from the beginning they have to hold their plank for longer than those that were goofing off. Seems backwards to me though.

 

[IreneKa]

The only time I've seen this happen was because of bulling. Couple girls said something mean to another girl, coach overheard, and made the whole team do conditioning for the rest of the practice. I guess it worked, because I have't seen or heard of any kind of bulling among those girls since then, and this was two year ago.
But because of the skills? No, never.

 

[Mom2-4]

I know this coach that had his littles so into conditioning that his girls thought not conditioning was a punishment. He made the one that fell remain on the beam while everyone else did 10 handstand push-ups etc. He swears it worked great.

 

[Muddlethru]

It is called "team building". Both gyms my daughter attended do this. And yes, she comes home really upset. This is usually done in the higher levels (8-10) and older gymnasts that I've seen where the girls understand (or should understand its purpose). If they start them younger, then then the coach must perhaps explain the "activity/drill".

The philosophy behind team building is that gymnasts are viewed as members of interdependent teams instead of as individual workers. Team members not only share expectations for accomplishing group tasks (punishment has negative connotations to it. It is a group task. Perhaps coaches should stop using the word punishment.) but trust and support one another and respect one another's individual differences.

I think it is great as it lets the individual think beyond themselves; a good characteristic to have and is quite lacking in this day and age.

 

[profmom]

DS's former coach used this technique. Most of the time, I think it was effective and the conditioning assignments weren't anything they wouldn't have been doing anyway. There was one time when he went overboard and punished the whole group severely because one boy had turned out his hands on a BHS after he'd warned the group two previous times. I will say that even though that coach is no longer at DS's gym, the team relationship he forged through sometimes setting himself up as the group's adversary has lasted strongly.

One twist that he often used was that if they all completed the assignment successfully, HE would have to do the conditioning. I thought that was brilliant. When the coach did this, and the weakest kid for that particular skill would accomplish it, requiring the coach to do 50 pushups, all of the boys would go nuts congratulating the boy who made it and gleefully counting off for the coach. That attitude then carried over to meets and created a lot of supportive energy for the entire team.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Not for skills but sometimes for cheating on conditioning or other "behavioral" issues. We also like to pair them up (usually NOT with the person they would be most likely to pick) during conditioning and they are supposed to support and encourage (aka keep accountable) their partner. These are Optional girls, not necessarily older, 9-up) but more experienced.

Even for younger kids if I have a particularly antsy group or some who have a hard time listening during a practice, I use sprints as a way to redirect and bring focus back.
For individual "offenses" in the younger groups, I redirect individually. If someone is caught cheating on assignments they have to do it over while the rest watch, for instance.

Never for things like falling on beam or not making a skill though. Effort and attitude "offenses", yes!

 

[BachFlyer]

Happens in our gym all the time, both for skills and for conditioning. It can be very irritating to the girls who tend to accomplish things first, but they get irritated with the coaches not the other girls. DD says it's completely stupid. The girls know everyone is trying their best. It basically punishes the girls who are already super strong, which makes no sense to her. The only reason I can see for it is to encourage the girls to support each other (which they already do) and hold each other accountable (which doesn't feel right to dd, feels like piling on). I agree with dd. But it is what it is, and when it comes up, we just make jokes a bit in the privacy of our car, and she moves on...

I love the strategy of making the coaches do the work if the gymnasts completed the task. That would never happen in our gym, but I think it's an awesome tactic!

 

[Sasha]

On conditioning, yes. If one girl's feet touch the ground on a hollow hold, for example, all must do an extra 50 hollow-ups or whatever. This is very common at our gym.

I think it happens occasionally on skill work. I recall DD telling me about having to redo handstands or cartwheels on the beam (part of the L4 routine during meet season) as a group until nobody falls. That seemed ok. They can all use repetitions of these anyway. I imagine coach might be trying to simulate some of the 'pressure' of competing? I don't get the impression this is a common everyday tactic, though. The girls don't seem upset. I do think they internalized it as a 'team challenge' as opposed to any kind of punishment.

I think how the coach approaches it - how they set up expectations and the words they use when someone does fall/fail - can make a big difference.

 

[ZJsMom]

DS's former coach used this technique. Most of the time, I think it was effective and the conditioning assignments weren't anything they wouldn't have been doing anyway. There was one time when he went overboard and punished the whole group severely because one boy had turned out his hands on a BHS after he'd warned the group two previous times. I will say that even though that coach is no longer at DS's gym, the team relationship he forged through sometimes setting himself up as the group's adversary has lasted strongly.

One twist that he often used was that if they all completed the assignment successfully, HE would have to do the conditioning. I thought that was brilliant. When the coach did this, and the weakest kid for that particular skill would accomplish it, requiring the coach to do 50 pushups, all of the boys would go nuts congratulating the boy who made it and gleefully counting off for the coach. That attitude then carried over to meets and created a lot of supportive energy for the entire team.

My dd's softball coaches used to do something like this. They would set up a drill and if the whole team could go through it successfully twice, they got to assign conditioning to the coaches. They kids loved to see the coaches running and doing pushups. It really seemed to work too. They would often get through the fielding drills without an error.

 

[munchkin3]

The only consequences are for girls who are not paying attention, or goofing around....the two involved get push-ups.....

The whole team receiving punishment because of one or two kids, that is a total NO! That it a military strategy, NOT FOR CHILDREN EVER.

It ruins self esteem, and breaks down team, and causes bullying......

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The only consequences are for girls who are not paying attention, or goofing around....the two involved get push-ups.....

The whole team receiving punishment because of one or two kids, that is a total NO! That it a military strategy, NOT FOR CHILDREN EVER.

It ruins self esteem, and breaks down team, and causes bullying......

Yep, that's not team building that is using peer pressure to discipline.
And setting up adversarial negative relationships among the team.

Team building would encourage support between members. Things like encouragement, trust, cooperation and friendship.

That is not peer pressure. Punishing the group is peer pressure, not team building. They are not remotely the same thing.

 

[Graham14]

I'm not qualified to answer anything gymnastics related, but it is NOT an effective style to use on young girls (I have coached other sports before). Especially if it is in relation to skills...

The only time I have ever seen it work was with 14-18 year olds and only in very specific circumstances. Like let's say someone spilled something and no one cleaned it up. Everyone walked by it, saw it, and no one did anything. Regardless of how the mess happened, every teammate said "not my responsibility". A team isn't about saying "not my job". A team is about saying "what can I do" or "where can I pick up the slack for someone else" etc.

 

[Graham14]

I should add that reference above was more geared towards field sports like soccer, in which if someone else "drops the ball" it is imperative that someone else "picks it up" regardless of whether it was their fault or not... so i'm not sure that reference would work with gymnastics.

 

[momto2js]

He over use of punishing the whole team is one reason we have made a gym change. In the case of the old gym, coach would punish the whole group for the actions of one. Usually it was bad behavior. 8 years olds should not be responsible of the behavior of otheres, period! The behavior problem should be sent home and the rest allowed to move on. Self policing just doesn't work at that age. It was a BIG problem.

Now at the new gym, they do a handstand contest every day. If you don't hold it for 2 seconds, every one does 5 pushups. They cheat each other on and try to avoid them but it is no big deal.

 

[momto2js]

Evidently I should NEVER reply from my phone. sorry about the editing or lack there of errors above!!