Coaches Control Competitions...

[blantonnick]

Control Competitions, Mock Meets or whatever you like to call them....what are some ways you motivate your gymnasts to take them as serious as possible? Do you set them targets for least amount of falls, take B jury only and set a target, a contest etc...anyone have any good ideas for the measuring/assessment of control competitions?

 

[bogwoppit]

Hand out medals and ribbons on a podium, just like the real thing. They always want to be their best. Have awards for the prettiest dance and other fun stuff. It will cost a few dollars, but girls are motivated by bling!

 

[KBT]

I'm wondering what your goal is in having control competitions?
-Is it to get the kids used to competing? If so, maybe just let the kids who want to practice competing do them. If some kids aren't taking them seriously, it's their loss.
-Is it to rank the gymnasts and figure out who to put in the lineup? If so, the kids who screw around and don't take it seriously should get lower scores and won't get their lineup position.

 

[blantonnick]

Let me qoute Arkaev in answering the goal to a control competition....

"Please note that the nature of training and competitive activity differs substantially. It is one this cooking a meal in a hot kitchen and eating it at the kitchen table with your relatives and friends (training activity model). It is quite another using the meal as food at a big banquet with candles and servants when mistakes in etiquette are not forgiven and open to scrutiny (competitive activity model). They are different affairs, but effectively the first is subordinate to the second and is done for the latter's sake.

But if the table is laid with a starched table cloth and guests are invited in evening dress, this family meal will be like the banquet model. To fully reproduce conditions of an official banquet in domestic circumstances is impossible. It is just the same when using the pedagogical modelling method; we need to remember that it is in principle impossible to reproduce fully conditions of competitive activity in training. It is impossible, for example, to reproduce the psychological stress of world or Olympic finals. Artists know that the dress rehearsal can never replace the premiere.

At the same time we can determine the basic parameters of competition activity and learn not only to repeat them in training, but also to surpass them - ie to model with outstripping. At first these parameters may be exceeding individually, and then in routines, moreover in artificially created conditions which are more complex that competitive in certain characteristics. In the event we create the very psychophysical and technical surplus that we need for ensuring reliable and highly productive competitive activity."

That is one long breath is the goal of a control competition in the gym...according to the most successful coach in gymnastics history.

 

[Valentin]

Arkaev is the man that is for sure haha.
However the title of that book is "How to Create Champions" and it main focus in on the Elite gymnast. haha.. I just dont know that kids who are levels gymnats with not intention/or capacity to go the full 9 yards is worth the time. I just dont know... It is definitely going to be better then not having one, but is it worth the time/money/loss of training time?
Put it like this...Arkaev is talking about preparing his gymnats for the worlds with these mock meets, what are you preparing these gymnats for? This will give you some idea of what kind of standard the inhouse meet should be.. What level are they?

I guess these are the things that would make this more effective..
1- Call it a trial not a meet/or compeition...I think saying you are going to a trial has more presige then saying i am going to meet/ or inhouse meet/ or club competition. Trial just has something to it that says, you are being judged and assessed..it certainly put the pressure on.
2- Bring in outside judges..it will definitely send a message that this isn't something that is silly
3- Definitely provide some reward for the winner..and some consequence for the others who underperform (if you have something to compare them against).
4- Set goals as a form of performance assessment.. "jimmy your goal is to hit that kip to manna and hold for 2sec". Something on each apparatus i think is best, but still emphasise that this is a trial even though its great that Jimmy does hit the kip to manna, its in vain if he comes last. haha.. consistancy
5- The podium things is great
6- For best results i think it be even better if you invite a club you know who are good, or of similar level (competative). Have them attend as well. NOTHING! can substitute the competative spirit that comes out (in some anyways..the true athletes) when having to compete against someone else. However stick to only 1 club, as this is again a trial, or whatever you wanna call it.

 

[blantonnick]

Preparing them for Junior Europeans, Europeans and the OG...Got five kids on the National Squads at the moment...definately not talking about level 5's and 6's doing compulsory routines.
Talking about control competitions to assess the best start values/ways to approach routines etc...just looking for some better motivating factors throughout...

 

[gracefulone]

6- For best results i think it be even better if you invite a club you know who are good, or of similar level (competative). Have them attend as well. NOTHING! can substitute the competative spirit that comes out (in some anyways..the true athletes) when having to compete against someone else. However stick to only 1 club, as this is again a trial, or whatever you wanna call it.

We always do this for ours. We have a team come that we never ever comepte aganist in season too. I'm at a YMCA, but there are a lot of clubs in our area, so we have one of our favorites come. It's a great challenge.

 

[KBT]

If assessing start values and routine construction is your goal, I would also recommend getting a real judge in. Have the girls wear their competition leos. Have the judge sit down and talk to each girl afterwards about what she can improve on. A judge's opinion will go a long way...

 

[bogwoppit]

If assessing start values and routine construction is your goal, I would also recommend getting a real judge in. Have the girls wear their competition leos. Have the judge sit down and talk to each girl afterwards about what she can improve on. A judge's opinion will go a long way...

Great idea, getting feedback from an actual judge should go a long way in inspiring the kids to work their hardest.

 

[Valentin]

Hi blantonnick

Well your case certainly fits in with the kind of athlete Arkaev was talking about.

"just looking for some better motivating factors throughout..."

Aside from doing trials, and inviting others to compete against, that are strong competitors (of course in an environment that simulates competitions as much as possible)..i dont know how much more you can do.
At the club i used to work, they would have the head state judge (this is in the US) or something like that...a really high level judge anyhow.. come and watch the elite kids and then give feedback to the coach. The fact that the gymnasts never even talked to the judge or were involved in the decision process of what they are doing, i think doesn't help to much. Overall i dont know how much the whole process helped aside from getting them into some 'presentation' mode. Then again 1 (out of 2) made it into he jnr National team soon after.

I think coaches should get their gymnasts more involved in the decision process of what they are doing...especially as they age (if you already don't, but somehow i have a feeling you do, correct me if i am wrong). At the end they are going to compete the stuff...if they like what they are doing cause they have helped structure it and realise it, then they will appreciate it more, and work harder at it.

Rereading your initial post... "anyone have any good ideas for the measuring/assessment of control competitions?" i guess
1- Comparison of environtments between test competition and to be actual competition. By doing trial meets in different environments you could establish what works and doesnt for your gymanst/s. Each one being potentially different.
2- Comparison of results between your gymnasts and the gymnasts they will be competing against (results from international comps like previous Jnr Europeans, Euros etc..) based on a trial meet. Run a trial meet, and compare the results in short.. how do they stack up. Would give a rough guess at least of what to excpet and to see were you/they are at in comparison.
3- Run several trial comps in a row, and asses results..do they get better between days or worse, or stay the same.. How does their fetigue effect them between doing an AA round, and next day doing EF (for things they have qualified). taking an average.
4- Get 3 judges to technically score them (since you can tell them the routine composition, and have 1 person as an A panel judge)..and then see how 3 different judges rank them (without other judges knowing what eachone gave..reducing bias and what not).

I would just like to make sure that you are not asking about how to make mock meets (or as you said whatever people call them) more of an compeitition training exercise, but rather as an assesment of current performance level?..
I hope i am reading the question right.

any of this of any value to you?

 

[blantonnick]

Valentin all very helpful thank you very much...!