Different philosophies. How do I know what is best?

[bluesocks]

Hi all,

My question is exactly what the title suggests. I am learning that there are very different philosophies about pre-team, moving up levels, etc. How do I know what is best for my child? Is this a case in which there are many different approaches and we have to find what fits us best?

I am looking at a new gym for my daughter. In my area, there are three different types. Let me explain.

Gym A keeps kids in developmental classes much longer. Kids don't typically start competing level 4 until they are 8 years old and have been in the program about 3 years (average).

Gym B puts kids at the level they are working on; so kids in level 4 are working on level 4 skills.

Gym C seems to be more middle ground. They must have the level 4 skills before being level 4, but they aren't in developmental for years and years.

The funny thing is that both B and C consistently do better in state competitions than gym A.

Why are the approaches so different? Is there a "best practice" in gymnastics--some approach that is generally agreed upon to be better than others?

Heading down this road into competitive gymnastics is definitely a learning game for me!

blue

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

It's very individual (and there has lately been a bit of a flare in the level of debate around here regarding gym philosophy, so be warned)

B and C sound better to me from your descriptions, though it's hard to say for sure without knowing a bit more about the programs.

Would it be possible to try a practice or two at all three? If so, this would be the best thing to do, and see which one your daughter likes best.

 

[Mariainlv]

Do B and C do better because they are more focused? A seems more of a Rec gym setup to me. I have also been noticing that at L4 and L5 in my area the younger gymnasts tend to do better. Not sure, I would think it was the opposite but its not.

I don't think there is one approach that is best but rather the approach that works best for you and your gymnast.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

One piece of advice I will give: how the gym does at state competitions at the lower levels (ie 4-6) shouldn't factor into your decision, because it's not an accurate indicator of the quality of coaching.

While there are a number of unrelated factors that could affect these numbers, I think the biggest thing I would look at when choosing a gym is how long kids tend to stick with the program.

Does one gym have a lot of spectacular young, lower-level girls, but not a single kid over 13? If so, it's probably a bad sign, as it could indicate a high burnout rate among the gymnasts. Conversely, does one gym seem to have a lot of older (say, highschool age) girls who have been there a long time? If so, it's probably a good sign, indicating that the gym's methods are enjoyable and sustainable (ie avoiding injury) enough to keep the kids around.

 

[gymjoy]

Blue,
It is a learning game for everyone!

As you have noticed there is no "best practice" ideal out there. I think that is a good thing because you can find the best practice for your child.
It is a bit trail and error to find what works best for you and your gymnast. Don't be surprised if you choose a gym, then decide you need to change in a year or two (though I am not a proponent of constant gym jumping.)

Follow Geoffrey's advice - see if you can do a try out practice or two at each gym. Watch carefully, talk to other parents, eaves-drop a little (It can be enlightening.)

Competitive results are important, but also look at how many girls continue in the program into optional levels, and how successful they are. I think having those girls shows a stable program, with good progression and good coaches who understand the sport as an individual journey for each gymnast.

Best of luck.

 

[Granny Smith]

I think that a better answer could be given if we knew the age of your dd, I am assuming that she is a L4 based on your below examples, but I could be wrong - so please clarify if this is incorrect.

If I were looking for a gym for my dd and figured she was in the sport for the long haul I'll tell ya what I'd be looking for.

The first thing I'd look for is what their Optional Program looks like. Knowing that in a couple of yrs, Optional is where my child would be. There are many gyms that are know as Compulsory gyms, who excel at Comp levels and other gyms known as Optional gyms that excel at the Optional level. There are very few gyms that are know as both. I would consider a very good Comp gym if I knew I would be there through L6 and look to get to an Opt gym at L7, if you do not have one of those few "both" gyms around.

At at comp gym I'd be looking for a gym that focused on good form, strength and solid basics. I will also tell you that good Optional gyms you will see the optional girls still working these same basics, form is still drilled into them and conditioning is essential. I wouldn't want my child to be at a gym that is chucking skills with no form, not only will it not do well in competitions (score-wise), but you are seriously increasing the odds of your child getting hurt.

My dd's current gym has you compete a level and have the skills to do so solidly and consistenly and you are training up a level or 2. By doing this, you will move up through the levels and will most likely see some level of success. I would think this is closest to your Gym C description if not only do they have to have to skills to compete but they are still uptraining.

 

[gymjoy]

I didn't even see GT's second post because I was typing at the time, but wrote along the same lines. Too Funny

 

[mariposa]

It is so hard to tell just from those descriptions. And meet scores don't always mean much, depending on what you are looking for overall for your gymnast.

Example, my daughter goes to a gym that has a solid compulsory program and solid optional program (we have had several girls get college scholarships over the past 5 years). Not the "best" highest scoring programs, but solid. I know nothing about the optional program, but in compulsories, while emphasis is put on clean routines and having them solid, it isn't EVERYTHING. They do a lot of strength and conditioning and they uptrain pretty much year round, just usually not the week or so before a meet. The girls do well at meets, sometimes really well, sometimes just average, depending on who we are competing with.

We lost a bunch of girls to a "power gym" recently, after a coach went there. Now I know WHY they score so well at meets and win so much. They only compete one season and they focus almost SOLELY on routines, routines and more routines. The skills for that level, too, but almost no uptraining and much less strength and conditioning. They compete one season (we have 2 seasons here fall and spring) and then they uptrain after that season is over until levels are determined. After that, it is back to routines, routines, routines, for whatever level you will be competing, with maybe a little uptraining. And they do this training a little less hours a week than most programs. (Ex. Level 5s go 3 days a week/10 hours, where most programs it is 4 days a week/14-16 hours.

For my daughter, the gym she is at is a perfect fit for her. She LOVES uptraining and conditioning stuff. She HATES doing the compulsory routines over and over so every detail will be perfect. She still scores well at meets and gets to have her uptraining fun, too. She doesn't care if she wins all the time. She just wants to compete and have fun and would be very sad at the other gym. They pick the routines apart up and down and I know she would be miserable there (at least at compulsory level).

You have to know what the goal of the gym is. If at the compulsory level, they are very compulsory focused, it will be a different type of training. If they are focused on doing well at compulsories, but also preparing for the next level, it will look different, too.

I would try to your DD out at the different gyms and then try to find out from parents what the gyms philosphy is. And you need to think about which one your daughter would best fit with. Good luck!

 

[jdf]

I never heard anyone say that a gym is often good at compulsory or optionals, but it is certainly true in my experience. At my daughter's old gym, level 4 is always the largest level, and they almost always place in the top three in states. After that, the girls seen to drop off, with their skill level not progressing. right now, there are 4 teenagers in the whole gym.

I wish I had had that advice when starting out.

 

[NGL780309]

DD's gym is definitely better at optionals than compulsory. It's always been that way in the 10 years I've been hanging around. They are very middle of the road in the lower levels. Parents stick around though because they hope their kid will get to optionals one day. They have an occasional star in L5 or 6, but it's always a homeschool kid who works out with the optional coaches in the mornings.

Back to the original question. DD's gym doesn't seem to have much of a plan like GYM A, B or C. Girls are moved to L4 in January from either the L3 class or the preteam. Those coming from L3 seem to have most of their skills and are older (8 to ?) as they have worked through the levels. Those coming from preteam are usually younger and aren't nearly as prepared skillwise, but seem to catch up quickly. They train L4 from Jan to August and then compete Sept to December with no uptraining at all. In January they move to L5 with no L5 skills and then have until the end of August to get them. I'm not sure this is the best method because they still have some kids struggling with kips this close to competition. I think because they don't really perfect the routines they don't score really high at these levels.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

Our gym has historically focused more on optional levels. I have noticed that they are becoming much stronger with the compulsary levels as well. Our gym would be most like the C gym you describe. Kind of the best of both worlds. During competition season they do still do some uptraining but the focus is more on routines. Once the season is over it is uptraining, uptraining, uptraining. Plus, they will also move girls to the next level in the middle of a season if they fell they are prepared. I think that is great as alot of gyms put girls in levels and they stay there the whole season regardless if they are ready for the next level or not. That is something to think about when making a decision. I hope you find the best fit for your DD !!

 

[bluesocks]

It is helpful to hear about other's experiences. I am gym shopping (for lack of a better word) and that is why I am so confused. At gym A she wouldn't even be on pre-team, still developmental. At gym B she would be on team for level 4. At gym C she would be pre-team with an expectation of competing next year (Sept. - Dec.).

I am leaning towards gym C. I think my daughter has the skills to do level 4 right now. But, she has never worked on routines. I think if she did compete this year, we would likely be repeating a level. And, I guess that is fine, too. I am trying to find that balance between pushing too quickly and going too slowly. You know, the point in which she is challenged and still having fun.

I guess I know what I don't want right now. It is harder to express what I do want out of a program. I want her to make progress and be able to learn new skills. I want a really positive and encouraging environment. And, I still want strong coaches who teach solid technique (no having to relearn later). Is that too much?

Thanks everyone!

Blue

 

[sportzmomov3]

This question is asked often and similar answers are usually given. Bluesocks, you didn't answer one poster's question of how old your DD is, which may or may not be a consideration.

Regardless, one thing we have seen in our gymnastics journey is that it isn't a "one gym fits all" world. And, it isn't one gym for life either. So, you can only do your best at observing and researching before you make a decision, but it is only gymnastics, and it is only the beginning (level 4.) More than likely you will switch gyms at least once more if your DD remains in this sport to reach the optional levels. Things change over time, coaches move, and so you can't base your decision on just long-term outlooks (the gym might have great coaches right now, and lots of optionals, but that can change at the end of every season!)

My only advice would be go with your gut - it's usually not off, and don't lose sleep over this - it's only one of many decisions you'll need to make! Worse case, you switch gyms if it doesn't work out.

All the best.

 

[LizzieLac]

I think an important factor (which may have been mentioned and I missed it) is culture within the gym. By that I mean, is it laid back or serious? Are the coaches warm, strict, do they have a sense of humor, etc? Are they uproachable? I good persponality match is just as important IMO.

 

[bluesocks]

DD is 6--so with the differing approaches, she would either be competing at age 6, 7, or 8 for the first time (assuming she competes USAG level 4).

Someone mentioned personality and style. I think that is where I am at right now. I want coaches who give lots of encouragement, positive and constructive feedback. We have been at a serious type gym and it has really seemed to have a negative impact on my daughter. If she doesn't do something perfectly, it is a failure. I would like her to be with coaches who acknowledge that she is headed in the right direction with a skill.

So, I guess that helps me understand better what I am looking for--the age at competition doesn't matter to me. She will get there when she gets there. But, it IS very important to me that she have fun and be in an upbeat environment. I also think that a more fun environment will help her stay in the sport longer. She has many years to have the serious coaches if she wants.

We are checking out option C tomorrow. Wish us luck! They are a fairly new program (maybe 2-3 years). So, they don't have optionals at this point. But, that is fine with me. I am open to being in a growing program IF it is the right environment.

Thank you all!

Blue

 

[Granny Smith]

The good thing about your dd is that she is young. Many gyms that are dealing with an older child might push to get them through the levels, with a younger child it is ok to let them progress at a slower pace and really focus on form and basics. If a child has good form and great basics, the rest comes much easier. Good luck with your "quest!"

 

[cher062]

There are as many approaches as there are coaches and what works best for any given gymnast will depend on the gymnast. At 6yo you know what your child likes and doesn't like and what she will respond to so pick one that fits your DD's learning style. You will know if it is a good fit because your DD will be happy. Don't be afraid to start at a gym and realize that it isn't right and move to another gym. When DD gets older then listen to what she has to say. You may end up staying with the same gym forever or may end up moving ever few years.

What is best? No one can really answer that except you and your gymnast. Go with your gut feeling.

 

[NGL780309]

It is helpful to hear about other's experiences. I am gym shopping (for lack of a better word) and that is why I am so confused. At gym A she wouldn't even be on pre-team, still developmental. At gym B she would be on team for level 4. At gym C she would be pre-team with an expectation of competing next year (Sept. - Dec.).

I am leaning towards gym C. I think my daughter has the skills to do level 4 right now. But, she has never worked on routines. I think if she did compete this year, we would likely be repeating a level. And, I guess that is fine, too. I am trying to find that balance between pushing too quickly and going too slowly. You know, the point in which she is challenged and still having fun.

I guess I know what I don't want right now. It is harder to express what I do want out of a program. I want her to make progress and be able to learn new skills. I want a really positive and encouraging environment. And, I still want strong coaches who teach solid technique (no having to relearn later). Is that too much?

Thanks everyone!

Blue

I think you'd be surprised how quickly they can pick up the routines. If she has all the skills for level 4 I don't think she'd have a problem learning routines. My 5yo is on L4 team and it really only took her about 2 weeks to get comfortable with the floor routine (going 3 days per week) and she learned the beam routine in just a few days. Granted everything isn't perfect, but they look pretty good. I didn't think she would be able to learn the routines honestly. It just looked like a lot to remember, but they are smarter and quicker than we give them credit for. If she's ready to compete I wouldn't shy away from Gym B because of having to learn routines.

 

[bluesocks]

We visited a gym last night. It went very well. She was all smiles as she told her aunt about the trial class. It has been a while seen I have seen her be happy about gym. So, I think this gym will be the right place--for now, at least. She tried the pre-team class, so I think that is what it will be for this year. It feels like a good fit.

Thank you all. I really do learn so much from your input.

Blue

 

[NGL780309]

It feels good to finally make a choice! Keep us updated on your DD's progress.