WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

[txgymfan]

Wallinbl,

It is true. Most women I know have admitted to being the victim of some sort of sexual harassment at one level or another. It can be words, unwanted touch or worse.

In my case I was grabbed and teased daily in high school by student while a teacher was in the room laughing along with the rest of the class. Last year, a coworker was visiting from an out of town office and repeated propositioned me and casually grabbed me over my clothes. My story is one of millions.

 

[Flyaway]

Molly, I think your suggestion is a great one, and I would love to see Aly Raisman playing a role of that type.

Yes! I think she has the fire in her to do it too.

 

[John]

All the abuse has to stop. The question is how do WE make that happen. We need to raise our children right. Boy s are taught to be gentlemen and girls that they are strong and capable of anything. Raised to be strong and brave and to stand up and know they have power.

We also must remove the power predators hold over our gymnasts. I think the idea of secluded camps and selection to teams etc is the root cause. The predators know how the gymnastic system works. Predators work hard and act graciously to get to the place of power over the kids. They then use that perceived power to do what they want and force the victims to be silent. A gymnast's performance should get them on the team or invited to camp, having an arbitrary selection process creates the power that is held over a gymnast.

Just a thought on a start.

 

[bogwoppit]

Boys are taught to be gentlemen

I think kids need to be made fully aware that the only body they have the right to touch is their own. The whole "gentlemen's club" culture is what leads to sexual touching without permission, also known as assault.

 

[BachFlyer]

I think the best place to start is to implement a program where outreach-ambassadors/speakers are made available to go to individual gyms to speak with the gymnasts, with the coaches and parents in attendance, about personal empowerment and touch on the subjects of emotional and/or sexual abuse in a kid-friendly way. Similar to how a gym would bring in Doc Ally, for example, or how a school brings speakers in to discuss bullying or suicide or whatever. I don't know if USAG could afford to send this person at their expense, but at minimum they should find the right person/people (Aly Raisman et.al) and then suggest the service to member gyms as available and then gyms (or booster clubs) could decide to schedule and pay for one of the speakers.

I think this would be the best top-down way to address the power imbalance that permeates the gymnastics culture. Parents seem more empowered to speak up these days, but unless it's a top down approach, the kids won't be getting the message as strongly and with as much trust that their voices will be heard and respected. And coaches will be putting themselves out there as accountable. Because the coach-gymnast-parent triangle only works if it is continually emphasized and all parties (especially the kids) CLEARLY UNDERSTAND what that means in practice.

 

[Midwestmommy]

Roughly half of the voters in the United States voted for a man for president of the United States who bragged on tape about sexually assaulting young women, it wasn't a deal breaker.

I read many posts from people I love who found peripheral reasons to question the "motives" of the millions who marched in the women's march. Fox News (which is run by godparents of some of the Trump kids) barely covered it, and Fox cable news is now unrecognizable as it conforms to RT TV propoganda format, and also had their own firings after years and years of cover ups. Hollywood now too with Weinstein, who was a big supporter of the liberals. Extremists on the far right who don't support religious freedom (except for their own religion) have hijacked the Republican Party and are pushing an agenda which among other things takes aim at women and anyone who they think is "different".

I agree, we need change and it needs to start at home with how we raise both boys and girls. And how we treat each other. Hopefully we can emerge from this insane period in history having learned a few things about ourselves and how to support the girls lin gymnastics, in other sports, in school, in the workplace... it starts at home and all us are overdue for a few more good looks at the person in the mirror... (me too).

The platinum rule--treat others not just how you would like to be treated, but how they would like to be treated. I recently have been trying to replace my "golden rule" conversations with "platinum rule."

 

[lovofu]

I

Roughly half of the voters in the United States voted for a man for president of the United States who bragged on tape about sexually assaulting young women, it wasn't a deal breaker.

I read many posts from people I love who found peripheral reasons to question the "motives" of the millions who marched in the women's march. Fox News (which is run by godparents of some of the Trump kids) barely covered it, and Fox cable news is now unrecognizable as it conforms to RT TV propoganda format, and also had their own firings after years and years of cover ups. Hollywood now too with Weinstein, who was a big supporter of the liberals. Extremists on the far right who don't support religious freedom (except for their own religion) have hijacked the Republican Party and are pushing an agenda which among other things takes aim at women and anyone who they think is "different".

I agree, we need change and it needs to start at home with how we raise both boys and girls. And how we treat each other. Hopefully we can emerge from this insane period in history having learned a few things about ourselves and how to support the girls lin gymnastics, in other sports, in school, in the workplace... it starts at home and all us are overdue for a few more good looks at the person in the mirror... (me too).

The platinum rule--treat others not just how you would like to be treated, but how they would like to be treated. I recently have been trying to replace my "golden rule" conversations with "platinum rule."

I logged in to read the comments on this issue and am appalled that a conversation about SEXUAL ASSAULT AND HARRASSMENT turned into yet another political diatribe. I was RAPED while in the military long before President Trump was elected. I was forced to hang up my skirt while an OFFICER in the Air Force because my legs were too distracting. I had commanders knock on my hotel door in the middle of the night and we all know they didn't want to talk. My girls and I have had MANY conversations about what is and what is not allowed. I purchase appropriate clothing for them to wear. I praise their intellect and athletic abilities and ALSO tell them how beautiful they are. Many sexual assaults are rooted in our lack of belief in our WORTH, a lack of self esteem. The president was different in all three of the scenarios that happened to me over a 20 year career. PLEASE stop turning EVERYTHING into a rant against the president. BECAUSE when he is no longer the president and the problem remains then what.

 

[tucktwisttumble]

Something that concerns me is when I read "we have to raise our boys right". Not because I don't agree - but because I don't know how parents can do this and make it stick with their sons.

I say this because throughout highschool and university SO often (guys and girls) are entirely different people with their parents & family as they are with their peers - and the parents have no idea.

For example my "me too" story is with my highschool boyfriend... I fortunately felt comfortable enough to drive to his parents house (when I knew he was at work) and ask them for a conversation. I simply said " I don't know if you are aware but your son has put me in this xyz situation". There was nothing in my mind - even to this day - that my boyfriends behavior was a result of poor/neglectful parenting - because I saw how he was at home, and how he interacted with his parents. There would be no tell-tale reason to his parents that he would treat a woman in the way he treated me.

This is what really scares me.

 

[NutterButter]

I read many posts from people I love who found peripheral reasons to question the "motives" of the millions who marched in the women's march.

Yes, I can attest to this. I marched in DC and received negative comments - mostly from some of the men in my life but also some women too. I posted a #metoo post on FB this week and shortly afterwards received a DM from a friend asking if I had him in mind with my post and then he went on to explain that he thought our 'encounters' were 'mutual fun' and that I should have just told him to stop (note: I did a few times, but he was also in a position of power career wise so that complicated things too). I work in an industry where this kind of behavior was widely accepted. One time when I started a new job I was warned that my marriage would probably end because I work there (note: my marriage was fine but I did fend off sexual advances for 10+ years). And that's just my adulthood...it does not include the sexual abuse when I was a kid and uncomfortable teasing by male classmates. Yes, it's tough being female.

@lovofu - I'm so sorry for your experience. I think we are at a real crossroads now in the US and regardless if you support 45 or not, his candidacy and now presidency has brought a lot of the ugliness in the US to the surface. I can only hope that we learn from this and emerge stronger. For me, I find the public accusations of Harvey Weinstein and the #metoo as a step in the right direction. Sexual abuse/advances/harassment is so prevalent. Why not talk about it? Why not have the public discourse on how to treat fellow human beings?

 

[CoachMeg]

I
I logged in to read the comments on this issue and am appalled that a conversation about SEXUAL ASSAULT AND HARRASSMENT turned into yet another political diatribe. I was RAPED while in the military long before President Trump was elected. I was forced to hang up my skirt while an OFFICER in the Air Force because my legs were too distracting. I had commanders knock on my hotel door in the middle of the night and we all know they didn't want to talk. My girls and I have had MANY conversations about what is and what is not allowed. I purchase appropriate clothing for them to wear. I praise their intellect and athletic abilities and ALSO tell them how beautiful they are. Many sexual assaults are rooted in our lack of belief in our WORTH, a lack of self esteem. The president was different in all three of the scenarios that happened to me over a 20 year career. PLEASE stop turning EVERYTHING into a rant against the president. BECAUSE when he is no longer the president and the problem remains then what.

I'm so deeply sorry about what happened to you while in the military. It's disgusting and the abuse of power in this world is heartbreaking.

However, I really did not read @Midwestmommy's post at "It's all Trumps fault...ya de ya de ya". I read it as....our society needs to change. Half of the American people voted for a man who bragged about sexual assault and has made disgusting, derogatory comments about women (BRAGGING that he made these moves)....and people overlook it. It's not a deal breaker to them. They voted for him for other reasons, but him abusing women was not a big enough deal for them to reconsider their vote. That is the troubling part...and I think that is where her post was coming from. Or at least how I took it. Because I completely agree.

Of course sexual assault existed before Trump. CLEARLY it did. That is not the debate. But when the PRESIDENT of the United States BRAGS about assaulting women and abusing his power as a wealthy businessman to inappropriately touch women....and voters overlook it as not a big enough deal and still vote for him and give him the power to run a country...that is the scary part.

Sexual assaulters/predators/child molesters/etc. need to be shunned to the highest degree and we need to have a NO TOLERANCE policy, no matter who you are. And if someone is openly bragging about it, they are trash. If someone openly supports them and is willing to overlook the issue, they are just as much a part of the problem in my eyes.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Roughly half of the voters in the United States voted for a man for president of the United States who bragged on tape about sexually assaulting young women, it wasn't a deal breaker.

I read many posts from people I love who found peripheral reasons to question the "motives" of the millions who marched in the women's march. Fox News (which is run by godparents of some of the Trump kids) barely covered it, and Fox cable news is now unrecognizable as it conforms to RT TV propoganda format, and also had their own firings after years and years of cover ups. Hollywood now too with Weinstein, who was a big supporter of the liberals. Extremists on the far right who don't support religious freedom (except for their own religion) have hijacked the Republican Party and are pushing an agenda which among other things takes aim at women and anyone who they think is "different".

I agree, we need change and it needs to start at home with how we raise both boys and girls. And how we treat each other. Hopefully we can emerge from this insane period in history having learned a few things about ourselves and how to support the girls lin gymnastics, in other sports, in school, in the workplace... it starts at home and all us are overdue for a few more good looks at the person in the mirror... (me too).

The platinum rule--treat others not just how you would like to be treated, but how they would like to be treated. I recently have been trying to replace my "golden rule" conversations with "platinum rule."

Obviously the problem has been around since the inception of man kind and will continue to do so. But a leader absolutely enables behaviors, they are after all... our leaders... only 3 more years....

 

[txgymfan]

Let's stay away from the politics and 45 talk in this thread. I think it's good that these issues are more out in the open. We need to be careful here and focus on the issue and stay respectful.

 

[bogwoppit]

Admin note - Yes please keep this away from politics and please keep it on the issue. Future wanderings off to politics will result in deletion and temp bans. We do not do politics here without admin permission

@lovofu I am truly sorry for your experience, dreadful.

 

[RTT2]

only 3 more years....

Or, fingerscrossed, less!

 

[bogwoppit]

Or, fingerscrossed, less!

Did you read my post????

 

[sewgood]

I feel for the many abuse victims, I think we all know, deep down, that more of us have been assaulted and abused than have not been. It is the terrifyingly dark truth about being born a female, we are vulnerable, even when we are strong.

Someone dropped drugs in my middle kids drink this weekend, it all ended well, besides collapsing, vomiting and a rush to the ER in an ambulance. But as it happened at the same time as the #metoo, it just reminded me that we are vulnerable to those who wish to abuse us.

Many are complicit in hiding the abusers, they know who they are.

This sentiment has been making rounds lately, and as the father of two girls, it's really shaking me up. Can it really be true? How can it exist for so long? I can't wrap my head around the idea of it.

Oh, it absolutely is true. I think it would be easier to count the number of girls and women I know who have never been abused, harassed, assaulted or raped then the ones who have not. Most have experienced some combination of the above, unfortunately. #metoo

 

[gymmomtotwo]

The secretive camp system needs to stop, medals be damned. Parents should accompany all minors to USAG sponsored functions. Period. Not difficult to understand. Shut that evil ranch down. We are not 1970s East Germany and we shouldn't act like it. Hold a trials and take the top finishers. JMO.

 

[John]

The secretive camp system needs to stop, medals be damned. Parents should accompany all minors to USAG sponsored functions. Period. Not difficult to understand. Shut that evil ranch down. We are not 1970s East Germany and we shouldn't act like it. Hold a trials and take the top finishers. JMO.

Boooya nailed it.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

The secretive camp system needs to stop, medals be damned. Parents should accompany all minors to USAG sponsored functions. Period. Not difficult to understand. Shut that evil ranch down. We are not 1970s East Germany and we shouldn't act like it. Hold a trials and take the top finishers. JMO.

Hold on hold on.... the camp is not an evil place.... Nasser was performing examinations in his own basement I heard, right under his wifes nose.... He was extremely sneaky and persuasive. I also understand the a parent was actually in the room during a "treatment".... So lets not paint an entire camp with one paint brush please. Lots and lots of good things happen at the ranch on a daily basis.

 

[sce]

Hold on hold on.... the camp is not an evil place.... Nasser was performing examinations in his own basement I heard, right under his wifes nose.... He was extremely sneaky and persuasive. I also understand the a parent was actually in the room during a "treatment".... So lets not paint an entire camp with one paint brush please. Lots and lots of good things happen at the ranch on a daily basis.

While I agree with you CoachP, and especially feel Nassar would have found a way even possibly whit more oversight. I think allowing parents more access in general is still not a bad thing. USAG has a history of making secretive decisions that hurt gymnasts in various ways. More transparency would be good for everyone involved.