WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

[John]

nothing wrong with a USAG camp, but its time to move it out of the woods into a more friendly location. I personally do not like how teams are selected. It seems almost cruel to hold a US Championship have a gymnast come in second place and not be on the team. I understand picking a team is difficult but its time for a new clear method.

 

[Flyaway]

nothing wrong with a USAG camp, but its time to move it out of the woods into a more friendly location. I personally do not like how teams are selected. It seems almost cruel to hold a US Championship have a gymnast come in second place and not be on the team. I understand picking a team is difficult but its time for a new clear method.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with moving the camp or making it more accessible. Certainly there are changes that need to be made. However, I don't necessarily have issue with the selection process as a whole. I mean, even at the lowly compulsory levels we say "any given day". We know how fickle gymnastics can be - to base an international team selection on one meet is risky at best. I do not have a problem with the selection camp process that allows those with the task of putting together the best team possible to see the girls daily putting in the work, to watch for consistency, trouble spots, etc. And these girls I'm guessing are not completely blindsided when it comes to team selection. Of course this is my Monday morning quarterback analysis, I don't have any real skin in the game.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

nothing wrong with a USAG camp, but its time to move it out of the woods into a more friendly location. I personally do not like how teams are selected. It seems almost cruel to hold a US Championship have a gymnast come in second place and not be on the team. I understand picking a team is difficult but its time for a new clear method.

Sounds reasonable to me . would love not to have to drive into the woods. I think that usag should charge more for kids so they can provide transportation to and from the airport for sure.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I agree that there's nothing wrong with moving the camp or making it more accessible. Certainly there are changes that need to be made. However, I don't necessarily have issue with the selection process as a whole. I mean, even at the lowly compulsory levels we say "any given day". We know how fickle gymnastics can be - to base an international team selection on one meet is risky at best. I do not have a problem with the selection camp process that allows those with the task of putting together the best team possible to see the girls daily putting in the work, to watch for consistency, trouble spots, etc. And these girls I'm guessing are not completely blindsided when it comes to team selection. Of course this is my Monday morning quarterback analysis, I don't have any real skin in the game.

I really think everyone is annoyed with the selection process regarding two athletes last round. One male and one female. I am not going to name them but the media attention they got prior to the pick was a giveaway.

 

[John]

I agree that there's nothing wrong with moving the camp or making it more accessible. Certainly there are changes that need to be made. However, I don't necessarily have issue with the selection process as a whole. I mean, even at the lowly compulsory levels we say "any given day". We know how fickle gymnastics can be - to base an international team selection on one meet is risky at best. I do not have a problem with the selection camp process that allows those with the task of putting together the best team possible to see the girls daily putting in the work, to watch for consistency, trouble spots, etc. And these girls I'm guessing are not completely blindsided when it comes to team selection. Of course this is my Monday morning quarterback analysis, I don't have any real skin in the game.

I do not totally disagree, my problem is with the selection being discretionary of a few people. This is what sets up the imbalance of power. The need to please someone who should not have power. The ability for predators to attack our children. If the selection process could be more cut and dry the power is given back to athletes and coaches. As an athlete/coach team trying to make the US team you need to be given the recruitments and then work your butt off and accomplish those recruitments thus making the team.

 

[sce]

I do not totally disagree, my problem is with the selection being discretionary of a few people. This is what sets up the imbalance of power. The need to please someone who should not have power. The ability for predators to attack our children. If the selection process could be more cut and dry the power is given back to athletes and coaches. As an athlete/coach team trying to make the US team you need to be given the recruitments and then work your butt off and accomplish those recruitments thus making the team.

I will not dispute that there were issues with the decision made in 2016. I think the issue with selection though, is that we don't need all all-arounders, so there has to be a way to choose some team embers that are good on one or a few events.

 

[John]

I will not dispute that there were issues with the decision made in 2016. I think the issue with selection though, is that we don't need all all-arounders, so there has to be a way to choose some team embers that are good on one or a few events.

My problem is every gymnast that has trained for years and made it to an elite level and comes in the top 5 at nationals probably deserves a chance to compete on the world level. To be left home because another gymnast has one good event is not really in the spirit of sport.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

My problem is every gymnast that has trained for years and made it to an elite level and comes in the top 5 at nationals probably deserves a chance to compete on the world level. To be left home because another gymnast has one good event is not really in the spirit of sport.

It is not for the sport, but the spirit of the sport is forgotten if it comes to winning.

 

[AlijahsMom]

I'm hosting the thread right now, but I have one major question. As a victim myself of childhood sexual assault for years, my biggest concern for my own child is to be abused. That being said, I am no where hear a helicopter parent. However, how do parents so easily trust the "no parents allowed rule?" I know I will prepare my child eventually that no adult is to have her in a room alone etc., but I just can't shake the thought that that rule alone is a huge reason for the abuse persisting for so long. And not just sexual abuse, my cousin is in a gym in another state and left due to mental abuse and eventually physical abuse. Last I heard, the old coach is not allowed at any meets my cousin is at due to his prior actions as per a court. I just believe there should be some sort of checks and balances for USAG to attempt to block this behavior.

 

[AlijahsMom]

I hear if you are on Ambien and don't sleep 8 or more hours you actually can be awake and function but you can not have a recollection of what you have done. Think Tiger Woods.

This is 100% correct. I used to have a prescription for ambien in college. Often, is take one, fall asleep and 10 minutes later, wake up and take another one forgetting that I'd already had. I'd then walk the halls takings jibberish and swaying all over. I'd often knock on friends doors and they bring me back to my room.

 

[chalkbowl]

My problem is every gymnast that has trained for years and made it to an elite level and comes in the top 5 at nationals probably deserves a chance to compete on the world level. To be left home because another gymnast has one good event is not really in the spirit of sport.

What do you consider the world level? Jordan has competed in Italy twice as well as Montreal. Or does it only count if it's a World Championships or the Olympics?

Would you be happier if we did away with event finals and only had AA finals and a team competition?

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Hold on hold on.... the camp is not an evil place.... Nasser was performing examinations in his own basement I heard, right under his wifes nose.... He was extremely sneaky and persuasive. I also understand the a parent was actually in the room during a "treatment".... So lets not paint an entire camp with one paint brush please. Lots and lots of good things happen at the ranch on a daily basis.

I get what you are saying, but so much has gone on at that ranch. Nassar, Karolyis starving and abusing the gymnasts. I dislike everything about what the Karolyis stand for. I have a problem with the terrible things that have gone on there. I know it is just a set of buildings, but I think USAG made a mistake buying it. A fresh start in a new facility would have been a good thing imo. Clear out the garbage and cobwebs, clean it all out and really move on to a new era. Of course the money is spent, so it is too late.

 

[John]

What do you consider the world level? Jordan has competed in Italy twice as well as Montreal. Or does it only count if it's a World Championships or the Olympics?

Would you be happier if we did away with event finals and only had AA finals and a team competition?

World competition is just that world competition, it does not have to be Worlds or Olympics. Possibly Selection process could use world experience as a qualification to Worlds or Olympics? I must add I believe USAG should forfeit the right to select the team/teams that represent the USA, they do not deserve the honor after what has transpired.

I have to think about it more but I think I like the idea of AA and team competitions. Within the Team competition, event finals could exist. If this format was adopted more gymnasts would earn the ability to compete and represent. Take 3 all-arounders and another set of girls to comprise the team event (could include AA girls).

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I'm hosting the thread right now, but I have one major question. As a victim myself of childhood sexual assault for years, my biggest concern for my own child is to be abused. That being said, I am no where hear a helicopter parent. However, how do parents so easily trust the "no parents allowed rule?" I know I will prepare my child eventually that no adult is to have her in a room alone etc., but I just can't shake the thought that that rule alone is a huge reason for the abuse persisting for so long. And not just sexual abuse, my cousin is in a gym in another state and left due to mental abuse and eventually physical abuse. Last I heard, the old coach is not allowed at any meets my cousin is at due to his prior actions as per a court. I just believe there should be some sort of checks and balances for USAG to attempt to block this behavior.

Depends , in our gym at any given time dozens of parents are present. Most are rec. but we do allow team parents to view now and again, so with 90 kids in team it's pretty common to have a couple of team parents in. A zero parent viewing policy would be a problem on my end , particularly Rec.

 

[txgymfan]

I know it is just a set of buildings, but I think USAG made a mistake buying it. A fresh start in a new facility would have been a good thing imo. Clear out the garbage and cobwebs, clean it all out and really move on to a new era. Of course the money is spent, so it is too late.

I read that the sale was canceled. There is still a lease on the property until ??? . However, another property will be developed eventually.

 

[sce]

I'm hosting the thread right now, but I have one major question. As a victim myself of childhood sexual assault for years, my biggest concern for my own child is to be abused. That being said, I am no where hear a helicopter parent. However, how do parents so easily trust the "no parents allowed rule?" I know I will prepare my child eventually that no adult is to have her in a room alone etc., but I just can't shake the thought that that rule alone is a huge reason for the abuse persisting for so long. And not just sexual abuse, my cousin is in a gym in another state and left due to mental abuse and eventually physical abuse. Last I heard, the old coach is not allowed at any meets my cousin is at due to his prior actions as per a court. I just believe there should be some sort of checks and balances for USAG to attempt to block this behavior.

I think the bigger issue is not the no parents allowed, but the fear of speaking up. Kids felt if they said anything negative it would hurt their standing with the national team. (and the fear was founded as some tried peaking up and were ostracized.) Allowing parents more access would help, as I said above, transparency overall would help a lot.

 

[suds]

Regarding child abuse prevention:

Coaching staff deciding if parents should be “Allowed”, or not, to watch their own (minor) children practice sports is an outdated concept from several decades ago. The world has moved on, and current expectations are certainly much different.

When parents are “Allowed” unlimited access to their children (i.e. made welcome to watch any and all practices, visit with their children at training camps, etc.), then a few things happen:

1. We think coaches aren’t trying to hide questionable interactions with our children.
2. Credibility of the system increases exponentially because of openness.
3. We can sense much quicker when something isn’t right with our own child.
4. Most parents would not watch practices most of the time.

In gymnastics, it also makes it much more likely that we will “Allow” a gym to coach our children.

I almost never watch practices. I intermittently (rarely) do spot checks. However, I need to know that I can check up on my child’s environment – anytime, without notice.

 

[amiandjim]

http://eng.gymnovosti.com/scherbo-im-used-to-getting-what-i-want-from-women/

The overall sentiment in this interview from both Scherbo and his mother is just disturbing and honestly a picture of what is a huge part of this pervasive culture!! Just....gross.

 

[MILgymFAM]

http://eng.gymnovosti.com/scherbo-im-used-to-getting-what-i-want-from-women/

The overall sentiment in this interview from both Scherbo and his mother is just disturbing and honestly a picture of what is a huge part of this pervasive culture!! Just....gross.

Well that was disturbing.

 

[amiandjim]

Right??? I was actually shocked by it all...and I’m not that easily shocked