WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

[Texasmomof3]

Why has Kerry Perry not been sitting in that courtroom every day since this started? I know she wasn't a part of USAG when the abuse took place. But as the leader chosen to take it forward, she needs to listen and hear the stories. Is that really too much to expect?

And I'm a lawyer. I fully understand not making public apologies and amends while litigation is pending. But there is no legal risk to simply listening.

 

[amiandjim]

Yes she should have been sitting in that room the entire time. Period!

 

[profmom]

If anyone at all at USAG is listening, at least have someone high profile be there for the sentencing. Even if that person cannot say a word and has to fight her/his way out of the courtroom through a veritable wall of reporters with microphones, be there and show that you stand with the victims. (In fact, even if you do have some big new safety initiative to unveil, keep it quiet and let the focus remain on justice for the victims.) Continuing to be flat-footed and tone deaf is destroying the foundations of your organization.

And while I know everyone's all excited about tarring and feathering Geddert, now would be an EXCELLENT time to figure out how to identify and defang the other abusive coaches you have as members. If you let this go with banning Geddert, you have lost the best opportunity you are ever likely to have to achieve a major cultural shift in the sport. You probably know the coaches who've had criminal complaints filed against them for assault. That's a great and easy place to start.

 

[QuietColours]

Mattie Larson's full statement from today:

 

[BachFlyer]

And while I know everyone's all excited about tarring and feathering Geddert, now would be an EXCELLENT time to figure out how to identify and defang the other abusive coaches you have as members. If you let this go with banning Geddert, you have lost the best opportunity you are ever likely to have to achieve a major cultural shift in the sport. You probably know the coaches who've had criminal complaints filed against them for assault. That's a great and easy place to start.

Agree wholeheartedly.

But as a parent who's refused to be silent on the culture for 10 years, and received blowback from coaches (and even sometimes other parents) for simply advocating on behalf of my kid - I can't say I'm holding my breath for sweeping changes. Over the years I've heard stories of at least 4 other gyms, in my state alone, where gymnasts are treated poorly. All hearsay, so I can't say I've been a witness to it directly (although if you watch the non-verbal presentation of various coaches on a competition floor, you could probably take a wild guess), but I have had parents and/or gymnasts express disgust at the way their gymnasts had been treated. All ultimately left those gyms, thankfully. Perhaps (perhaps!) it stopped short of physical abuse, but of course it's a fine line, and plus I believe the emotional abuse leaves deeper scars that are harder to see.

We all know that the surface has only been barely scratched. My hope is that us parents are ALSO empowered at this time to not be afraid to speak up and bring our concerns to the table. Demand that our coaching staffs hear us, and stop acting as though we are insane-crazy-gym-parents for simply giving a **** about the welfare of our kids. Demand that coaches do their part to foster their end of a trust-agreement that they so casually expect from us. Teach them that constructive criticism is, at minimum, not as horrendous as they've decided it is, and better yet, actually crucial to the development of healthy and emotionally secure athletes. It is on all of US to refuse to be voiceless going forward.

 

[GymMom4]

Agree wholeheartedly.

But as a parent who's refused to be silent on the culture for 10 years, and received blowback from coaches (and even sometimes other parents) for simply advocating on behalf of my kid - I can't say I'm holding my breath for sweeping changes. Over the years I've heard stories of at least 4 other gyms, in my state alone, where gymnasts are treated poorly. All hearsay, so I can't say I've been a witness to it directly (although if you watch the non-verbal presentation of various coaches on a competition floor, you could probably take a wild guess), but I have had parents and/or gymnasts express disgust at the way their gymnasts had been treated. All ultimately left those gyms, thankfully. Perhaps (perhaps!) it stopped short of physical abuse, but of course it's a fine line, and plus I believe the emotional abuse leaves deeper scars that are harder to see.

We all know that the surface has only been barely scratched. My hope is that us parents are ALSO empowered at this time to not be afraid to speak up and bring our concerns to the table. Demand that our coaching staffs hear us, and stop acting as though we are insane-crazy-gym-parents for simply giving a **** about the welfare of our kids. Demand that coaches do their part to foster their end of a trust-agreement that they so casually expect from us. Teach them that constructive criticism is, at minimum, not as horrendous as they've decided it is, and better yet, actually crucial to the development of healthy and emotionally secure athletes. It is on all of US to refuse to be voiceless going forward.

Amen x 100.

Sincerely,
Another parent who refused to just stand by

 

[skschlag]

Agree wholeheartedly.

But as a parent who's refused to be silent on the culture for 10 years, and received blowback from coaches (and even sometimes other parents) for simply advocating on behalf of my kid - I can't say I'm holding my breath for sweeping changes. Over the years I've heard stories of at least 4 other gyms, in my state alone, where gymnasts are treated poorly. All hearsay, so I can't say I've been a witness to it directly (although if you watch the non-verbal presentation of various coaches on a competition floor, you could probably take a wild guess), but I have had parents and/or gymnasts express disgust at the way their gymnasts had been treated. All ultimately left those gyms, thankfully. Perhaps (perhaps!) it stopped short of physical abuse, but of course it's a fine line, and plus I believe the emotional abuse leaves deeper scars that are harder to see.

We all know that the surface has only been barely scratched. My hope is that us parents are ALSO empowered at this time to not be afraid to speak up and bring our concerns to the table. Demand that our coaching staffs hear us, and stop acting as though we are insane-crazy-gym-parents for simply giving a **** about the welfare of our kids. Demand that coaches do their part to foster their end of a trust-agreement that they so casually expect from us. Teach them that constructive criticism is, at minimum, not as horrendous as they've decided it is, and better yet, actually crucial to the development of healthy and emotionally secure athletes. It is on all of US to refuse to be voiceless going forward.

So correct. And parents need to stop being ok with closed practices, no viewing ever, no communication. Coaches can be approachable AND coach great gymnasts!

 

[kecks]

this is horrible. this statement of matty larson is beyond disturbing. this culture is wrong, totally wrong. it can be done different, see other elite sports (at least some of them). i do not know how to create a whole culture change but it has to happen. coaches need to think of themselves as teachers first and as coaches second.

 

[tomtnt]

it makes you so sad that adults take this kids' sport so seriously that they are willing to verbally, emotionally, and physically abuse kids to "win". We aren't curing diseases here - these are just kids out there tumbling and dancing and swinging on bars.

Way to take the fun and joy out of sports.

 

[sce]

this is horrible. this statement of matty larson is beyond disturbing. this culture is wrong, totally wrong. it can be done different, see other elite sports (at least some of them). i do not know how to create a whole culture change but it has to happen. coaches need to think of themselves as teachers first and as coaches second.

Coaches just need to remember the priority is the kids not the medals or banners. And any medals earned are earned by the kids not the coach or the club. I man, just put the kids first!

 

[sce]

So correct. And parents need to stop being ok with closed practices, no viewing ever, no communication. Coaches can be approachable AND coach great gymnasts!

I agree. coaches - if you are defensive about parents being involved just realize many of us are just wanting to see our kids are safe and happy. Sure there are some crazy parents that make this difficult but it;s not about you it's about the kids.

 

[GymFan96]

I’m so glad Mattie called out Valeri for being one of those coaches who contributed to the harsh environment and shunned her after Worlds. If anyone hasn’t read Ohashi’s blog yet, you need to. She talks about being forced to run in a heavy sweatsuit for “looking heavier.” And was told that she looked like she swallowed an elephant. As a 70-pound 13 year old! Also she had to weigh in at the start of practice, and couldn’t leave until she weighed less!

Valeri Liukin is NOT the person to be running U.S.A. Gymnastics. His last two gymnasts ended their careers in huge disappointment because he literally broke them. Also keep in mind he wasn’t Patterson’s coach, that was Yevgeny. Valeri gets WAY too much credit for Nastia winning that AA gold by getting lucky in a year when the code drastically rewarded good bars over being good at anything else, and even further in her favor, the bars code rewarded pirouette connections over releases.

 

[SMH]

Does anyone know if Dominique Moceanu is in the courtroom? She just posted a picture of a city of Lansing Michigan emblem that looked like it could be the outside of a building. I wonder if she is there or just showing support of those who are testifying today.

She was there. A friend who testified today spoke to her.

 

[tomtnt]

i see we've placed the blame on everyone so far but have left out the parents and their (our) roles.

We have parents who are so invested that they side with the coaches in criticizing their daughters' weight (see Katelyn Ohashi's blog)

We have parents who probably refuse to see the signs or listen to their daughters' plea to quit (Mattie Lawson testimony on having to hurt herself to try to avoid going back to camp)

We have parents who knew better, but didn't speak up in fear of hurting their daughter's chances in the eyes of USA Gymnastics (Maggie's, whose dad is a physician!)

We have parents at all levels of gymnastics who put up with "tough" coaches in hopes that their kids will progress faster and get a college scholarship.

 

[bookworm]

i see we've placed the blame on everyone so far but have left out the parents and their (our) roles.

We have parents who are so invested that they side with the coaches in criticizing their daughters' weight (see Katelyn Ohashi's blog)

We have parents who probably refuse to see the signs or listen to their daughters' plea to quit (Mattie Lawson testimony on having to hurt herself to try to avoid going back to camp)

We have parents who knew better, but didn't speak up in fear of hurting their daughter's chances in the eyes of USA Gymnastics (Maggie's, whose dad is a physician!)

We have parents at all levels of gymnastics who put up with "tough" coaches in hopes that their kids will progress faster and get a college scholarship.

Well I'm not sure if you're being entirely fair here...Ohashi did seem to implicate her parents in siding with Valeri so i'll give you that one but I watched Mattie's testimony and I didn't hear that she was pleading with her parents to quit but that she didn't want to go back to camp at the Ranch when she harmed herself to get out of it...her parents took her to the hospital so they didn't just blow it off (I would imagine the Larsens would have pulled her if they knew the skinny on what was happening at the Ranch but gymnasts are good girls who follow directions and don't make waves...) Nichols' dad.. I can not imagine he knew maggie was being sexually abused and didn't speak up, Olympic dream or not.

We put up with "tough" coaches but never in a million years can you equate that with "and I'm okay with them being abused" to move them along and progress...and it certainly does not give a coach carte blanche to do whatever (sexually/physically/verbally). I signed my kids up for gymnastics in what I thought was a safe environment....and from a JO point of view it was, we had great and nurturing coaches along the way, and even the tough ones were tough but fair, and not abusive.

Make no mistake here, the fault in Larry Nassar's monstrous actions is the fault of Nassar, with enabling behaviors by USAG and the Karolyis, MSU and the USOC... and not trusting parents that signed their kids up for a sport.

 

[skschlag]

.
Make no mistake here, the fault in Larry Nassar's monstrous actions is the fault of Nassar, with enabling behaviors by USAG and the Karolyis, MSU and the USOC... and not trusting parents that signed their kids up for a sport.

I agree with you, but now we as parents have to make sure we do not let something like this take hold and fester again. We have to be sure we are following safe sport. We are the ones that will help change the culture of this sport.

 

[tomtnt]

Well I'm not sure if you're being entirely fair here...Ohashi did seem to implicate her parents in siding with Valeri so i'll give you that one but I watched Mattie's testimony and I didn't hear that she was pleading with her parents to quit but that she didn't want to go back to camp at the Ranch when she harmed herself to get out of it...her parents took her to the hospital so they didn't just blow it off (I would imagine the Larsens would have pulled her if they knew the skinny on what was happening at the Ranch but gymnasts are good girls who follow directions and don't make waves...) Nichols' dad.. I can not imagine he knew maggie was being sexually abused and didn't speak up, Olympic dream or not.

We put up with "tough" coaches but never in a million years can you equate that with "and I'm okay with them being abused" to move them along and progress...and it certainly does not give a coach carte blanche to do whatever (sexually/physically/verbally). I signed my kids up for gymnastics in what I thought was a safe environment....and from a JO point of view it was, we had great and nurturing coaches along the way, and even the tough ones were tough but fair, and not abusive.

Make no mistake here, the fault in Larry Nassar's monstrous actions is the fault of Nassar, with enabling behaviors by USAG and the Karolyis, MSU and the USOC... and not trusting parents that signed their kids up for a sport.

I don't know - I hope I can notice when my kid is miserable and see the signs that she doesn't really want to do gymnastics! She didn't trust her parents enough to tell them that she didn't want to go back to the ranch...

Nichols' mom: "When I have the president of USA Gymnastics telling me what to do, he’s in a position of power over me. We’ve given our whole family up to get our daughter to this point and [when] I have Steve Penny telling me this is what we’re going to do, we’re going to be quiet, I’m going to listen to him. I’m not going to jeopardize my daughter’s chance of going to the Olympics". This is what I meant, not that dad should have known. But Mom/Dad maybe should put doing the right thing above going to olympics? Again, no idea what I would do in their shoes....

 

[QueenBee]

I worry whenever a conversations starts to veer toward the question, "What could [insert victim/victims' parent here] have done to prevent/stop the abuse the victims were subjected to?". The onus needs to stay on those who perpetrated the bad acts, not on those who were harmed by those bad acts. The way for these women (and their families) not to have been victimized would have been for Larry Nassar to choose not to harm them and/or for the institutions who protected Nassar to have listened to and believed the brave young women who reported him multiple times over the years. He could have been fired from his job, lost his medical license, been banned from USAG, arrested and prosecuted...the list goes on on what could have/should have happened (parents/children control none of those things). He was reported by victims & parents over and over again. Children (and their families) are NOT to blame.

I think sometimes we, as bystanders, want to believe there was something that could be done to prevent bad things from happening; it is a way for us to distance ourselves from having to accept that horrific things can happen outside of any of our control. I think we would all like to believe that we would have handled the situations each of these family's found themselves in differently and that maybe then our children wouldn't get hurt...however, I think that puts blame where it doesn't belong.

Bad things can happen to good, blameless people. It is one of the hardest realities for me to accept. The problem, here, though isn't simply that bad things happened - the problem is bad things happened and everyone who was contacted/notified/reported who could have stopped more bad acts chose instead to believe and protect the monster who hurt so many young women, allowing him to hurt more children over decades. Or (even worse in my mind) chose to try to protect the brands (USAG, USOC, MSU) over protecting children.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

i see we've placed the blame on everyone so far but have left out the parents and their (our) roles.

We have parents who are so invested that they side with the coaches in criticizing their daughters' weight (see Katelyn Ohashi's blog)

We have parents who probably refuse to see the signs or listen to their daughters' plea to quit (Mattie Lawson testimony on having to hurt herself to try to avoid going back to camp)

We have parents who knew better, but didn't speak up in fear of hurting their daughter's chances in the eyes of USA Gymnastics (Maggie's, whose dad is a physician!)

We have parents at all levels of gymnastics who put up with "tough" coaches in hopes that their kids will progress faster and get a college scholarship.

I would agree that some parents like the Moceanus are culpable to some extent, but I don’t think you can put the Nichols in that category. Steve Penny told them that it was already reported, FBI was involved and an investigation was underway. They were told further reporting would jeopardize the investigation and at that time with no further knowledge of what had happened at MSU, I’m sure the Nichols believed them and didn’t want to hinder the investigation. I would assume that if I am told by the head of the organization that the FBI is handling it, what other authority would I need to report too? It was only later that they realized that they had been deceived.

 

[RTT2]

I worry whenever a conversations starts to veer toward the question, "What could [insert victim/victims' parent here] have done to prevent/stop the abuse the victims were subjected to?". The onus needs to stay on those who perpetrated the bad acts, not on those who were harmed by those bad acts. The way for these women (and their families) not to have been victimized would have been for Larry Nassar to choose not to harm them and/or for the institutions who protected Nassar to have listened to and believed the brave young women who reported him multiple times over the years. He could have been fired from his job, lost his medical license, been banned from USAG, arrested and prosecuted...the list goes on on what could have/should have happened (parents/children control none of those things). He was reported by victims & parents over and over again. Children (and their families) are NOT to blame.

I think sometimes we, as bystanders, want to believe there was something that could be done to prevent bad things from happening; it is a way for us to distance ourselves from having to accept that horrific things can happen outside of any of our control. I think we would all like to believe that we would have handled the situations each of these family's found themselves in differently and that maybe then our children wouldn't get hurt...however, I think that puts blame where it doesn't belong.

Bad things can happen to good, blameless people. It is one of the hardest realities for me to accept. The problem, here, though isn't simply that bad things happened - the problem is bad things happened and everyone who was contacted/notified/reported who could have stopped more bad acts chose instead to believe and protect the monster who hurt so many young women, allowing him to hurt more children over decades. Or (even worse in my mind) chose to try to protect the brands (USAG, USOC, MSU) over protecting children.

Yes, beautifully stated.