WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

[duyetanh]

This is a really tough situation for all involved. Many good people are also being hurt. But we should all be working towards a safe positive environment. Snark like this is not helpful at all.

Agreed. I could be way off, but your posts are just so negative that it makes me feel you have had some very bad experiences. If this is the case, I am very sorry either you or someone close to you has had such a rough experience with this sport, but there are many others out there who also have experiences just as bad or worse, and they are trying to take the higher road. I do hope you find some peace and closure in the future.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

First Male to come forward today against Larry.... my god...

 

[duyetanh]

First Male to come forward today against Larry.... my god...

Argh!

 

[sce]

First Male to come forward today against Larry.... my god...

Awful!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Aly is making her move . One can only imagine the anger that these victims harbor....

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Has this been posted yet? Ali suing USAG and USOC. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...mpic-committee-over-nassar-scandal-1520027047

 

[Seeker]

Good.

 

[GymFan96]

Kamerin Moore’s brother was on Megyn Kelly yesterday.

 

[hearts_and_stars]

Just my opinion (which probably doesn't mean much)...

This is a culture fostered not just by USAG, but also by every coach in the sport. How many times I've had conversations with coaches and parents about the state of elite gymnastics in the US only to be told that if a gymnast can't be competitive at the elite level by the time they're 13, they're too old. THIS IS WHAT CREATED THE ENVIRONMENT FOR SOMEONE LIKE NASSAR! Young children, boys and girls, CANNOT advocate for themselves--they simply lack the maturity to do so. They still believe all adults are concerned with their well-being and will only act in their best interest. Thus, if something happens to them that makes them uncomfortable or that their gut tells them is wrong, they CANNOT speak up because it doesn't make sense to them. Children don't gain this ability until they enter the teenage years, but by then, according to the way you create elites in this country, they've already been groomed to believe that speaking up--even when they know they have to--is the wrong thing to do.

I've seen it at DD's gym--parents of a young girl walk in and, after a few rec classes, are told their daughter is good enough for team. Yes, of course she's good enough for team. Don't we all know our progeny are superstars? After a bit of time on team, they're told their daughter is the right age and has the right body type to be an elite, and the coach would like to start TOPS training with her. The parents are told this is a special class only available to those who are the most talented. So, with stars in their eyes and Olympic dreams in their minds, the parents blindly follow along. As the child grows up, she comes to believe that telling her coach (who has so much faith in her ability) and her parents (who have invested so much time and money into her training) that something is not right is wrong. So she stays quiet. She'll go on to attend camps where she'll meet other girls who have similar stories. They commiserate with one another, but their reality is that here is nothing they can do without disappointing the whole (gymnastics) world. So they continue to suffer in silence, drawing strength from the bond their secret has forged.

It is so very difficult to speak out about sexual abuse in this country. When you feel like you have the weight of the entire country on your shoulders, it becomes that much more difficult. Until this belief system is replaced, the only thing that will change are the names and faces running the show.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Just my opinion (which probably doesn't mean much)...

This is a culture fostered not just by USAG, but also by every coach in the sport. How many times I've had conversations with coaches and parents about the state of elite gymnastics in the US only to be told that if a gymnast can't be competitive at the elite level by the time they're 13, they're too old. THIS IS WHAT CREATED THE ENVIRONMENT FOR SOMEONE LIKE NASSAR! Young children, boys and girls, CANNOT advocate for themselves--they simply lack the maturity to do so. They still believe all adults are concerned with their well-being and will only act in their best interest. Thus, if something happens to them that makes them uncomfortable or that their gut tells them is wrong, they CANNOT speak up because it doesn't make sense to them. Children don't gain this ability until they enter the teenage years, but by then, according to the way you create elites in this country, they've already been groomed to believe that speaking up--even when they know they have to--is the wrong thing to do.

I've seen it at DD's gym--parents of a young girl walk in and, after a few rec classes, are told their daughter is good enough for team. Yes, of course she's good enough for team. Don't we all know our progeny are superstars? After a bit of time on team, they're told their daughter is the right age and has the right body type to be an elite, and the coach would like to start TOPS training with her. The parents are told this is a special class only available to those who are the most talented. So, with stars in their eyes and Olympic dreams in their minds, the parents blindly follow along. As the child grows up, she comes to believe that telling her coach (who has so much faith in her ability) and her parents (who have invested so much time and money into her training) that something is not right is wrong. So she stays quiet. She'll go on to attend camps where she'll meet other girls who have similar stories. They commiserate with one another, but their reality is that here is nothing they can do without disappointing the whole (gymnastics) world. So they continue to suffer in silence, drawing strength from the bond their secret has forged.

It is so very difficult to speak out about sexual abuse in this country. When you feel like you have the weight of the entire country on your shoulders, it becomes that much more difficult. Until this belief system is replaced, the only thing that will change are the names and faces running the show.

Some of us have spent our careers doing our best to fight against every aspect of this. With respect, I think putting it at the feet of "every coach in the sport" is unfair

 

[gymmomx2]

Some of us have spent our careers doing our best to fight against every aspect of this. With respect, I think putting it at the feet of "every coach in the sport" is unfair

The new generation of coaches on this board gives me hope.

 

[profmom]

Agreed, Gymmomx2!

Yeah, H&S, that has not been our experience either. If your gym is really like that and you think your daughter is suffering in silence, perhaps it's time to switch. We as parents can choose not to continue enabling the culture.

 

[hearts_and_stars]

I'm not sure it's wise to phone gyms asking them if they'd be interested in training an older kid for elite, though it might be an interesting test to see just how many gyms out there subscribe to this mentality (my guess is that it's quite a few because this is the mentality/ideology promulgated by USAG. It would take a fair amount of courage for a coach to say, 'no, I've got a kid who would traditionally be seen as too old for elite and I'm going to do everything in my power to get her on the radar of national-level coaches. There may be quite a few coaches who will do that, but is it wasted effort? Will those national-level coaches even be interested in looking at the kid? Maybe, but given everything I've seen and read, it's not likely).

(Full disclosure: I'm not sure my kid wants to be an elite, nor am I sure given the dominant culture I want her to go that route. Ultimately, the decision needs to be hers because if she's not on board, there's no point in pushing it; if she does want it, then arbitrarily holding her back based on something arbitrary like her age is unfair to her. Who knows how far any kid can go in the sport if they're never given the opportunity?)

 

[Aussie_coach]

I think in the USA there is more too it that just not believing a kid can make it to elite at an older age. The general lifestyle of your country also plays a roll. The US is the only country I have heard of where kids “graduate” from their gyms when they graduate high school. Traditionally your clubs have NO ONE training in the clubs at any level after 12th Grade, it just in the elite level but in any level.

This is not the case everywhere. In my gym we have several kids still training in the levels stream whi are 19, 20, 21 etc. Most will continue to train and compete through their university years. This creates a social environment and an expectation for others. If the elites are the only ones still there after high school, then there is limited connection with team mates, and the idea that one is too old to be there.

In many countries elite gymnasts are paid to train. If yiu are on the national team, you will be paid like it is your job. In my country many elites are given free training if they are top of the game. They continue to love with their parents as they train into their 20’s, they don’t feel compelled to get a job, they are supported by the government in many ways. They stay on their parents healthcare package until they are 25.

 

[hearts_and_stars]

I think in the USA there is more too it that just not believing a kid can make it to elite at an older age. The general lifestyle of your country also plays a roll. The US is the only country I have heard of where kids “graduate” from their gyms when they graduate high school. Traditionally your clubs have NO ONE training in the clubs at any level after 12th Grade, it just in the elite level but in any level.

This is not the case everywhere. In my gym we have several kids still training in the levels stream whi are 19, 20, 21 etc. Most will continue to train and compete through their university years. This creates a social environment and an expectation for others. If the elites are the only ones still there after high school, then there is limited connection with team mates, and the idea that one is too old to be there.

In many countries elite gymnasts are paid to train. If yiu are on the national team, you will be paid like it is your job. In my country many elites are given free training if they are top of the game. They continue to love with their parents as they train into their 20’s, they don’t feel compelled to get a job, they are supported by the government in many ways. They stay on their parents healthcare package until they are 25.

This is an interesting analysis, and an aspect that hasn't yet been considered. I have no clue how elite gymnastics works in the US as I have no experience with it, but I do know many other countries compete girls well into their 20s without batting an eyelash (in the US, we made a pretty big deal in 2016 about Aly Raisman, who was 22 when she competed in Rio in 2016--announcers and broadcasters frequently referred to her as the 'grandma of Team USA'--at 22!) There is a lot of pressure in the US to leave childhood pursuits behind once one graduates from high school, and competitive sports not done as a uni student seems to be one of the things American society has judged to be a 'childhood pursuit.'

I think the push for the little girls to get to elite is that they haven't hit puberty yet (thus their bodies are still small and light), though with deeper investigation, this is only partially true. Yes, their bodies are tinier and lighter than those of teens, but older kids bring a level of maturity, polish, and poise to the sport that the young girls simply don't have. Because growth plates haven't yet fused, the younger girls are more susceptible to injury than teens whose plates have nearly fully fused. Younger girls are also seen as more obedient (perhaps there is a better phrase for this?)--they are taught not to question adults; once they enter the teen years and gain the maturity to have conversations with adults on their level, teens are sometimes seen as less obedient.

 

[GymFan96]

Didn’t Jade Carey just make Elite at age 16 or 17? Raisman was still a Level 10 in 08, so age 14? Maybe we should give more chances to kids like that. The pushing of little girls to elite ASAP works in some cases, but can also create burnouts like Bross and Ohashi.

 

[gymdog]

I think in the USA there is more too it that just not believing a kid can make it to elite at an older age. The general lifestyle of your country also plays a roll. The US is the only country I have heard of where kids “graduate” from their gyms when they graduate high school. Traditionally your clubs have NO ONE training in the clubs at any level after 12th Grade, it just in the elite level but in any level.

This is not the case everywhere. In my gym we have several kids still training in the levels stream whi are 19, 20, 21 etc. Most will continue to train and compete through their university years. This creates a social environment and an expectation for others. If the elites are the only ones still there after high school, then there is limited connection with team mates, and the idea that one is too old to be there.

In many countries elite gymnasts are paid to train. If yiu are on the national team, you will be paid like it is your job. In my country many elites are given free training if they are top of the game. They continue to love with their parents as they train into their 20’s, they don’t feel compelled to get a job, they are supported by the government in many ways. They stay on their parents healthcare package until they are 25.

Well we have NCAA gymnastics which kind of changes things for gymnasts at that level versus the UK or Australia. Almost no one would choose to continue training at their gym over top NCAA teams unless they were actively in the hunt for the Olympics and needed an even more rigorous training schedule than the NCAA could offer, or they aren't done with gymnastics but gave eligibility up as a young teen (this is a very limited group).

 

[wandrewsjr]

I think in the USA there is more too it that just not believing a kid can make it to elite at an older age. The general lifestyle of your country also plays a roll. The US is the only country I have heard of where kids “graduate” from their gyms when they graduate high school. Traditionally your clubs have NO ONE training in the clubs at any level after 12th Grade, it just in the elite level but in any level.

This is not the case everywhere. In my gym we have several kids still training in the levels stream whi are 19, 20, 21 etc. Most will continue to train and compete through their university years. This creates a social environment and an expectation for others. If the elites are the only ones still there after high school, then there is limited connection with team mates, and the idea that one is too old to be there.

In many countries elite gymnasts are paid to train. If yiu are on the national team, you will be paid like it is your job. In my country many elites are given free training if they are top of the game. They continue to love with their parents as they train into their 20’s, they don’t feel compelled to get a job, they are supported by the government in many ways. They stay on their parents healthcare package until they are 25.

As gymdog said, most 19/20/21 year olds in the US are in college, and if still doing gym doing it on NCAA division 1/2/3 teams or college club teams. Those gymnasts often come back and train at, or at least visit, their JO club teams from youth when home on winter and summer breaks. They are a great inspiration for the younger gymnasts.

 

[NY Dad]

I'm not sure if this was posted yet.

USA Gymnastics seeks dismissal of Nassar lawsuits
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/03/usa_gymnastics_seeks_dismissal.html

 

[txgymfan]

That was expected due to liability but still disgusting and ridiculous. Of course they are responsible, they made the athletes go to him for treatment, at the camp they were running.