Do you think there's an "elite personality'?

[Billy]

I think that perhaps this is not the best board for me.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I've been in the minority for so long, I was looking forward to a new friend.

But, I think you may be right. CB does not seem to be the place for parents of dedicated gymmies who have elite dreams and who are working toward making those dreams happen.

It's sad, really. As my daughter moves through this sport (she's been doing gymnastics for four years now, competing three), I really feel like I have experiences and insights that I could share with the community here. However, because I also let on that my DD is training with the goal of reaching elite, I am instead classified as a parent who knows nothing of this sport nor it's demands. Sad.

 

[bogwoppit]

don't know why i didn't see this before. what he said is way off the reservation and is not true. it's just not true plain and simple.

...and I know that you know.

 

[MdGymMom01]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I've been in the minority for so long, I was looking forward to a new friend.

But, I think you may be right. CB does not seem to be the place for parents of dedicated gymmies who have elite dreams and who are working toward making those dreams happen.

It's sad, really. As my daughter moves through this sport (she's been doing gymnastics for four years now, competing three), I really feel like I have experiences and insights that I could share with the community here. However, because I also let on that my DD is training with the goal of reaching elite, I am instead classified as a parent who knows nothing of this sport nor it's demands. Sad.

Shawn, I have been a member of CB since my dd started preteam (about 3 years ago) and I remember your dd just finishing up her Level 2 season (she had a great year that year if I recall--State Champ, correct?). And since she is now training level 8, I would love to hear your story of how she got to this level that quickly. I know that there was a gym move for you because you moved out of state, but I would be very interested to hear (as I am sure others would too) about your dd's journey so far. I think it would be very beneficial and educational for us here to hear from someone who has actually excelled that quickly. I understand if it is too personal for you to share on here, but I think it would help us all understand the Elite path a little bit better.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

it all seems a matter of interpretation for me. i've interpreted most everyone posting on this subject matter to be one of "take a step back for a moment".

i don't believe anyone is trying to rain on anyones parade. just my interpretation.

the sport of gymnastics is crazy and dysfunctional. if you don't know this it will be learned at some point. the best way to discuss what you see and experience is right here at this site. i think everyone is reasonable. i think reasonable is a pretty good metric.

the problem with this subject matter is that the majority do not know what elite means. they don't know exactly what's involved. what it costs. the heartache and disappointment. the few moments of excitement and happiness. the injuries.

reality, and the truth hurts...if we had as many elites in our country equal to the number of posts that state "my daughter is in an elite program" or "my dd is training elite" or "my coach says that my dd is...etc; then the USA would have a plethora to choose from. in fact, other countries could borrow ours we would have so many. the numbers don't lie.

i think this is all what the conservative posts are about. nothing more. sometimes i just sit back and read some of these posts. what often runs thru my head is when my parents (who are still living in their 80's) used to say to me "you'll feel or think differently when you have children of your own". or "don't put good money in to bad". or "don't put all your eggs in to 1 basket".

all 3 of those wise and old sayings apply to the elite level not just life. not only 40 years ago...but today also. i sincerely don't think anyone is trying to rain on anyone's parade or be a debbie downer. everyone has different styles of writing as well as different styles of interpretation.

example for internet speak: :you are stupid for letting your child work out 5948576358659 hours a week to become an elite gymnast. this is not the same as: i think it's stupid for and i would never, etc; and then: you know we have heard this kind of thing before and it's not recommended and you should look in to it a bit more.

all 3 things are saying the same thing. that's why no one should take anything personal. although if someone says you are stupid, or much the same with BIG FANCY WORDS like one of the other posters, then i guess you can waste the emotional energy getting offended. not me. i take it all with a grain of salt.

so how about nobody leaves and we all carry on with some of the great dialogue i have seen recently. and maybe we will all learn something and learn how we are all saying the same thing most of the time but just a tad differently.

and then consider this. and i humbly submit this. that for someone like me that is a coach and club owner and has been in the sport since 1964, that some kind of credibility must be given to a certain degree. since we don't know know each other personally, but you CAN tell when someone is credible and knows what they're talking about, just sometimes you must defer. i and many of the other coaches on this site are not know it alls. even if you have coached olympians still does it not make you a know it all. we are students of the sport such as yourselves. but honest coaches just know more. it's possible that we have seen and heard many of the issues you all discuss as parents several times over. sometimes you just have to defer. not because someone is trying to rain on your parade, but because they are genuinely attempting to educate someone. or trying to let the parent know that what they are doing is okay and you don't have to worry about becoming "mommie dearest". or that the injury is not that bad and will resolve itself quickly. or that maybe you should see a doctor. or that you are not crazy when your child, regardless of their level, quits and returns to gymnastics 40684364967 times in just a weeks time. and that's just to name a few of the issues that are brought forth on this site.

so, i have said my piece. hopefully i don't come off arrogant in your interpretation. and let's carry on. sometimes you don't know what you have until you don't have it. i have been on a lot of sites. just sit back and appreciate that this site exists. having it at your disposal whenever you so choose is better for you and your child than not having it at all.

wisdom is learned. it is not grown and can't be purchased.

 

[gymnut1]

I really feel like I have experiences and insights that I could share with the community here. However, because I also let on that my DD is training with the goal of reaching elite, I am instead classified as a parent who knows nothing of this sport nor it's demands. Sad.

I think you have many experiences and insights to share - Im sure no one is saying you know nothing of this sport. You obviously do.

 

[MdGymMom01]

That was brilliantly said Dunno! I have grown to look up to you with admiration and respect these past few years I have been on this board and that my dd has been involved in this sport. I remember (last year I think) when you posted many detailed and indepth posts about the history of gymnastics. I can't recall exactly the thread but could probably find it again after some research. Your wealth of knowledge, experience, wisdom and heartfelt storytelling is such an immeasurable value here on this board. I am not sure if many people actually realize how lucky we are to have you (and many other) insightful and wise posters. We can learn so much from you and everyone really, by sharing our stories as we all go through this marathon together. Thanks again dunno. I love hearing from you!!!

 

[DbacksMom75]

There is nothing wrong with having the dream and determination to be an elite gymnast. There is nothing wrong with supporting your child every step of the way. But as parents it's also our job to hold the reins and help our child meet their goal intact. To many gymnasts fly out of the gate and skip levels, train long hours at young ages and end up with injuries because their little bodies can not take it.
No one on here is saying that you are wrong for having these goals for your child, they were answering your question with their opinions. Is there certain personality characteristics elite gymnasts have? Yes. Can those characteristics destroy them? Yes. Can a child you doesn't have them succeed? Yes.
I don't think making elite has as much to do with personality as it does money. My child could be the next Nastia but if I don't have the cash for the training and travel? Shawn Johnson's family had to mortgage their home TWICE for her dream. So I think it has a lot to to do with the family's personality. Are you willing to sacrifice your dreams? Your home? Your other children's dreams? Are your other children willing to sacrifice without a feeling of resentment later? (These questions are not directed at the OP they are rhetorical.)
My little Paige could be the next great gymnast but I will still make her spend at least 6 months at each level. By looking out for her physical health it ensures her longevity in this sport. If she ever started heading towards the elite level I want her to be the most technically beautiful and strong gymnast on the floor. Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[gymjourneymom]

Dunno,

Thank you!!! I always look forward to your posts!!! I especially enjoy your longer more in depth post, I always learn something from them! Although your shorter posts are usually to the point, informative & amusing as well. I'll take whatever I can get, I know you are a busy man!

I agree we are lucky to have this excellent community to share & learn from each other. I really want everyone to continue posting. I enjoy hearing from each of you!!! It's like we are 1 big dysfuntional family, LOL!!! Now it's time for the group hug:grouphug:!!!

 

[bpatient]

I have watched 4 elites grow up. . . crazy pushy parents seems to be a trait 3 of the 4 had

“[C]razy pushy parents seems to be a trait 3 of the 4 [elites] had. Only two of the four were really good as little ones.”

The insights of psychologist Anders Ericsson regarding the development of expert performance have been elaborated in several recent nontechnical books including Bounce and Talent Is Overrated. I think the issues that Ericsson explored bear on elite gymnastics: ten years of intensely-focused, deliberate practice is pretty much the minimal requirement for expert performance in a variety of domains. Since parental support is apparently an absolute requirement if such practice is to be sustained at a young age—kids just can’t get there by themselves—those pushy parents may be on to something.

However, it’s interesting to compare the opportunity costs related to the development of expert performance in various fields. I vividly remember hearing Yo Yo Ma for the first time when he played at a private party I attended at Harvard, where Ma was then an artist in residence. Although, according to his undergraduate roommate, Ma had been a rather indifferent student in areas unrelated to his music, he had obviously devoted the requisite hours to intense practice, and he was already great; it happens, though, that although Ma’s older sister had been just as dedicated (although she is now a respected pediatrician, she has said—rather bitterly, I think—that she sacrificed her childhood to her left hand), she deeply regretted that she never achieved her goal of a career as violinist.

I wonder, though, if there may be some interesting differences between intense focus on mental vs. physical activities: for example, while progression in gymnastics may be severely restricted by injury, musicians (or other young experts-in-training in academic disciplines) aren’t at much risk of spraining their brains; additionally, while many musicians may enjoy playing for many decades, gymnasts rarely practice their sport beyond high school, much less college. Injury (whether a major injury or simply a series of minor mishaps) is an important and unpredictable factor in gymnastics training. Parents who are following their daughter’s dream (or perhaps their own dreams, since young children clearly aren’t able to make such decisions—or we'd have many more princesses) seem to be making a risky bet. I suppose that some of them may win—and it’s hard to win if you’re not in the game. We generally only hear about the winners, but some of the regulars on this board (e.g., dunno) have seen all of this many times before, and understand that when winning is so narrowly defined there are can be only a few winners. I think the responses to the OP have indicated that it's wise to attempt to ensure that somehow our daughters can walk away from this sport feeling like winners, whether they have competed internationally or simply learned to apply the lessons regarding the rewards of hard work and tenacity to other aspects of life.

 

[champion]

a "elite personailty" theres not one to me because every person is different and every bodys time doing gymnastics is different. what makes a gymnast is their own twist and way of doing gymnastics.

saying theres an elite personailty is like saying if we put all these charateristics in a pot and mix it together boom! elite gymnast. no way

being able to do all the skills that elite gymnasts do and do big competions with gymnasts around the world as elite gymnasts do.! thats a elite gymnast.

most gymnasts dont make elite because most of us go through each level a year at a time and the skills get harder and scarier and it starts costing more also.

so if your dd wants to go to elite level today then let her chase that dream and if she gets their its awesome! as long as she is happy is what matters at the end of the day to me!

 

[gymjoy]

But, I think you may be right. CB does not seem to be the place for parents of dedicated gymmies who have elite dreams and who are working toward making those dreams happen.

I respectfully disagree.
I have a dedicated gymnast who has elite dreams, and who is, right this very moment, working toward making that dream happen (and has been dedicated to competitive gymnast for 7 years). I just do not talk about it. I know one thing for certain, that I know nothing about training an elite athlete - I just know about raising and loving my dd - who happens to love one of the craziest, hardest, most dangerous sports on earth. With all she has been through - I am very humble about her chances...

 

[gymjourneymom]

I respectfully disagree.
I have a dedicated gymnast who has elite dreams, and who is, right this very moment, working toward making that dream happen (and has been dedicated to competitive gymnast for 7 years). I just do not talk about it. I know one thing for certain, that I know nothing about training an elite athlete - I just know about raising and loving my dd - who happens to love one of the craziest, hardest, most dangerous sports on earth. With all she has been through - I am very humble about her chances...

Thanks for sharing gymjoy! In all of your post I don't think you've ever mentioned that your DD is aiming for elite! I wish her the best of luck!!! Hope the stars align just right & her dreams come true!!!

 

[NOG]

Hmm. Perhaps an even more valuable discussion would be what personalities and level of involvement parental involvement there have been in elites who have remained relatively healthy physically and psychologically while competing at the elite level and after. Seems to me that parents are a huge factor in this equation and can push their kids to the point of breakdown no matter what the gymmie's talent or personality and in spite of the parent's good intentions, which we all, I'm sure, have. Not that pushiness necessarily has anything to do with you, FEM; it just seems so relevant to this discussion.
If people interested in how a parent can effectively be involved in and supportive of their gymmie's gymnastics haven't already read the sticky here on cb about Doc Ali's code for parents, I highly recommend it (and not because I wrote it ).

Thanks thnkGd4kds - always very insightful. That is an interesting question. I wonder though, of the parents polled - would the Over-involved recognize themselves as "over-involved" or would they think you were referring to someone else b/c you couldn't possibly be referring to them. They are so involved in it that they don't recognize the signs and just think that they are doing what needs to be done to reach "our" goal. Hopefully Dr Ali's code for parents will be read by those that need to read it the most .

 

[Blackie6]

Check the 2nd drawer on the left, I think it's in there! ^^^^^

...and under the Mother Goose book

 

[Billy]

I just do not talk about it.

Why not? Why don't you mention her elite training on CB or talk about it in any of these threads asking about elite?

 

[lilgymmie7]

Future Elite Mom,
When I first found this site it was on request of a friend that I check it out. I did mostly because I had questions to ask concerning my child. It seemed she was progressing quickly, and she also has psoriasis that I was concerned about. I wanted to see if other parents had similar concerns about their gymnasts on both counts.
When I first read your post your name didn't strike me as anything until I came across your introductory post. Then, I have to be honest, I did feel like some other posters perhaps feel. "Future Elite" mom, is their really a "Future Anything" that we can count on. Just as nothing in the future can truly be counted on, becoming a future elite mom or gymnast can not be counted on. Anything can happen along the road. It's best to enjoy every day, in and out of the gym with your child. Your child is only 8. She has to be at least 12 before she tests as a junior elite if I am correct. That is four years away. Anything can happen.
Don't get me wrong, please, I am simply amazed at what my 6 year old DD can do. She is the youngest team member and will have her first year of real competition as a level five in Janurary when she turns 7. She already has some of her level 6 skills, but what I found myself doing just this evening when I was picking her up from practice was beyond looking at her gymnastics ability. I was talking with a couple of parents from the rec. program when another parent came in with her 6 year old DD. The little one was so adorable and she seemed to act her age, whiny at times perhaps like most 6 year olds. I started to look at how different my child is behaviorally. She has matured so much in a lot of ways, and that is something I attribute to her coaches and her gymnastics. She is such a confident little girl in every way as well.
I am finding so many positives about her involvement in this sport. I too was a gymnast, but never really got very far. I have said many times to friends and family that I just love this sport. There is something to be said about the beauty and percision a gymnast must display in every routine. I would still feel this way even if none of my children were involved in the sport. I introduced both my girls to gymnastics because of that love of mine, but what they do with their gymnastics is all their own. I will back them up no matter what they choose to do. My oldest has since quit gymnastics. Emotionally, she wasn't well suited for the sport. She was too hard on herself and wouldn't let anything go. The little one is the opposite. When she falls, she gets back up and tries again, always with a smile on her face. It is quite endearing.
Using the name "Future Elite Mom" may throw some people off because it sounds a bit presumptious. Your daughter may very well be very talented, but if she is between a level 6-8, she is very far away from reaching elite status. Anthing can happen along her way in this sport. Someone asked before. What happens if she doesn't reach elite. Will you be bummed about it? You don't need to answer the question.
I don't know you, and you don't know me. But I have seen my share of pushy parents who for me are a quick turn off. You see, I am a teacher, and everything I do for my students is about empowering them to be who they want to be, not what others may want them to be. Reality is this, children are children for a very short while. These are the years to empower them to believe in themselves and Do for themselves. Skills that will empower them through their adult lives. Now what ever route a child leads whether it is an academic route or an athletic route should be with the child at the reigns. We parents are there to catch them when they fall, wipe them off, and offer our support. I hope that these are your intentions with your DD. I believe as Hillary Clinton stated, "It takes a community to raise a child." We as people should offer each other words of wisdom, inspiration, as well as support. All this in the hopes that our children are aided along the way.
My hopes is that if your DD truly wishes to reach elite, for herself, that she is successful in her endeavor. But if you have found yourself caught up in the dream, you can now stand back and look at things a little clearer. Gymnastics is more of an individual sport. Yes the gymnast belongs to a team, but in the long run it is the gymnast him/herself who has won or not won the medals.
With that said gymnastics is my daughters sport, not mine. I enjoy it, but I enjoy and love my daughter so much more for who she is. This child makes me laugh on a daily basis. I never look at her without having a smile on my face. She is just so geniune and wise. She is only 6 and I can say this about her. Enjoy that your DD is involved with something so much perhaps to have that dream of reaching the top. Enjoy your DD for who she is and not what she does in gymnastics.
I hope I haven't offended you in any way. That wasn't my intentions. Perhaps because I have seen my share of pushy parents in and out of the gym, I felt compelled to speak up.

Good Luck to your DD this season. I hope she finds much success in her gymnastics.

Let me just add, that your leaving the board may not solve anything. I felt a little turned off before because of the increased negativity at times. But I choose to stick around because I had many questions about my own DD's road in the sport. Don't feel like you have to go anywhere. Stick around and see what you can get out of it all. Good luck to you!

 

[SkiBumGymMom]

I'm new to this discussion, so hopefully I'm not missing anything too big. In my opinion it's a bit of chance and luck, a bit of the girl's individual personality and a lot of the situation. I'm only well versed in the family side of it, so that's all I really feel comfortable addressing.

In my experience it was really our family situation that limited how far my daughter could go with gymnastics. I'm a single working mom with another younger daughter. On top of that we live in a rural, isolated county, subject to bad weather and about 40 miles from the closest gym. I wanted to give both my girls every opportunity I could, and tried to arrange rides with other parents, splitting up schedules, etc. but in the end of the day I had to make the choice for my family. My youngest daughter had to give up jazz dance and my oldest daughter wasn't able to go to JO Nationals or continue to pursue gymnastics past level 10 (until later when she could drive). Other families have made other decisions and I can't judge them for that. I just had to apply my value system to my girls.

It seems that some people are hurt by what they perceive to be judgements against their lifestyle choices. I can and can't relate. There's been a couple people over the years who have asked me if I "feel bad" for ruining my daughter's gymnastics career. You have to take those criticisms with a grain of salt, no matter what side of the discussion they're coming from. Everyone has to make individual decisions for their family and it's hard to evaluate those from the outside looking in. Who knows? Maybe my daughter could have been in Beijing. Maybe she would have gotten hurt training Elite and quit gymnastics forever. Maybe she would have wanted to go off and join the circus! So many what ifs!!

On top of that, I've seen a lot of girls with a lot of very unpredictable injuries that change their paths. And the calling of a high school social life can't be underestimated! I've seen the most straight forward, determinded, serious girls change as soon as they hit puberty and step foot in a middle school Having two older teenaged girls, I can't stress how 5 or 6 years doesn't seem like to much when they're in grade school, but as they get older it seems like lifetimes! So, so, so much can change.

I admire families who make these amazing sacrifices for their children, I just can't stress (from my experience) how important it is to remain grounded. Best of luck to everyone's talented daughters, be they training for Classics or elite qualifying, or like a previous poster said, just trying to get their kip.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes, yes, yes!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and i'm laughing here at the same time due to a post that trip put up. my wife yells at me that an elite "coach" is a very expensive purse/handbag. not a bus!

but in all seriousness, and considering what trip posted, i don't and never have felt i was an "elite coach". i coach. my wife feels the exact same way. when people ask what we do we don't say we "are elite coaches". sounds stupid. we are gymnastics coaches. and you're only as good as your athletes at any time. and if you had an olympian, and never had one again, then what are you? you're a coach that coached an olympian that doesn't coach anymore. but some will call themselves olympic coaches.

i have been told that we are good coaches. but i also have been told that i'm a good father, husband, uncle, etc; quite frankly, that kinda trumps anything i could ever be or be called as a coach. my elders call this perspective. trip made me laugh. bus...lol!

 

[Bobby]

Why not? Why don't you mention her elite training on CB or talk about it in any of these threads asking about elite?

Gymjoy I was scratching my head over that too.

I have watched 4 elites grow up. ...The best of that group who is on the junior national team was a very unspectacular gymnast as a young kid. I can remember when she was a L5 and never placed at meets. At this young age (7) she was already homeschooled and going twice a day. Nothing about this kid stood out except her crazy parents. They were very pushy and obsessed with gymnastics... crazy pushy parents seems to be a trait 3 of the 4 had. Only two of the four were really good as little ones. I find it interesting that the most successful of these girls was really the worst gymnast as a kid. ...She wasn't horrible, but just average....

Suprising observation!!
Maybe some parents don't totally suck at judging their own DDs' potential, even if it's not apparent to other mums?
And maybe they were more devoted and supportive than pushy?
Was it just their willingness to homeschool and permit long training hours from a young age that lead to the diagnosis of "pushy"?
If we took your observations to be typical, wouldn't we have to make some unpopular conclusions about the need for early commitment and long hours from a young age to make elite? Now I'm curious to know how many levels those 4 girls competed for a full season??
Maye parental values around commitment to achievement tends to nuture certain types of characters/personalities that become the "stayers" in the long term??

 

[gymjoy]

Why not? Why don't you mention her elite training on CB or talk about it in any of these threads asking about elite?

Because I don't. Because I know how things can change because of injury, or growing-up, or burning-out. Because this is her sport and I am only here on CB for myself, for support in this crazy adventure and to remember what the beginning was like. I love to read the L4-5-6 meet reports and remember my dd's whopping score of a 5 on her first L6 bar routine. I enjoy reading about everyone's success, and I almost weep every time I read about someones disappointments. If nothing else, I never mention her elite training because I believe and have learned that, especially in this sport, you must be humble. Things can change in an instant. It is best not to place your hopes to high.

This does not mean one can not dream. I have often dreamed of what it would be like to have my dd be a successful elite, or go to the big O. But I know the more I dream, and the more I talk about that the more my ideas may take over my dd's ideas for herself. This would be wrong, and it creates a lot of pressure on her. I do not want her to ever think that if she does not make elite that she has failed me - or even herself. There are many ways to be successful as a gymnast - being an elite is just one of those.

And finally, I like to keep some privacy for myself and for my dd. I almost never post meet results, and never link to any video's.