WAG Does USAG compulsory text and exemplar video lead Righties to Right-hurdle RO?

[Jenny]

They should do walk overs so they are in their best split, not their worst split. I know people will say they should do it opposite so they can go out of a cartwheel, but I disagree and find that silly. It really doesn't matter, you should be able to do a cartwheel walkover with either leg. But you're really going to sacrifice a back walkover back handspring using your worse split for that? I can do a back walkover on either foot but it would be stupid for me to try a back walkover back handspring on beam with my left foot leading.

I find it silly too. They should split leap and walkover on their best split in competition wherever possible but should train split leaps and spins both ways. The percentage of tinies that will ever free CW, free walkover, layout on beam is minute. Yes it is a gorgeous series but it won't change your life.

 

[Jenny]

Also, most people have a better split. Typically children will want to kick their opposite leg over (example a right cartwheel kicking left leg over first in their back bridge kickover). They want to stand on their more stable foot.

I have coached little ones learning this skills for a number of years but only had 3 in that time who kicked back standing on their dominant /more stable foot. The rest have all kicked over leading with their dominant leg and using their best split. As a 180 split is required in back walkover in some of our grades most children need to use their best split to achieve this.

I am a rightie all the way except I snowboard left foot first. My younger dd is left handed, right split, right RO / CW etc, natural left twister forwards. However she can twist both so was picked up early to remember to twist right as her round off and cartwheel are so strongly right sided.

 

[raenndrops]

When the new routines came out, it was quite a scene watching the coaches trying to reverse all the movements for her, but I wouldn't say that usag prefers righties over lefties.

At our gym, the girls are split about 50/50. When the new routines came out, we sent a lefty and a righty coach to the conference to learn the routines. They came back and had them teach the routine to the appropriate girls... then, after that, the girls would be split on the floor when they practiced (for the first month) so that they could see what the person in front of them did.

Personally, I am ambidextrous in life, but left dominant by choice because throwing right is unnatural (my brothers said when I throw right handed, I throw "like a girl" but left handed, I throw "like a ball player" whatever that means.) In gym, splits right leg in front, cartwheel, RO, and HS right leading, no preference on turns.

 

[raenndrops]

Dh's dad is a lefty, but grew up in a time and place where lefties were taught to eat and write with their right hands. So he eats and writes righty, but probably would do those things lefty if he had been able to choose as a child and plays sports lefty because no one ever corrected him for that.

My dad was a righty in a family of lefties in the late 40s (before he started going to school). Grandma went away for a week and his siblings (7 of them) tied his right arm behind his back so he couldn't use it from the time he got up until he went to bed. Grandma came back and he was left handed like the rest of them.

 

[Alyssa S.]

Well I don't think you can teach or force a 3 year old to do much of anything on their non-dominant side. Do you work with young children? Your friend must have been very advanced cognitively to remember to use his non dominant side at 3 years old. I have taught some 3 year old marvels but still developmentally there is only so much you can do/expect. Try teaching the step kick before the handstands in the compulsory routine to 4/5 year olds and you'll see what I mean (for those who aren't developmental coaches laughing/nodding along with me, the compulsory routines require the children at every level to step forward on their non dominant foot, and then lift their dominant foot up before placing it down to do the handstand. This is almost unbelievably difficult for any child under 7 to grasp the first million tries. I color code their feet).

I am quite sure Gabby wasn't forced to do anything, knowing the program she started in. Like 99.9% of coaches, the progressions are introduced and the children model them, picking one side or the other. The coach will watch for technical errors (I.e. Pretty much every child will start doing handstands by placing the dominant foot in front, kicking up, then switching their legs in the air to come down on their non dominant foot. This would be corrected), but does not instruct the children as to which side they "should" use and only makes a change when things are inconsistent or incorrect and the child is confused or not doing the motion accurately (placing left foot in front but twisting body to do righty hand placement).

with all due respect, I don't think you understood what I said. You absolutely can begin teaching a natural leftie to cartwheel right at 3, 4, 5, maybe 6 until they are old enough to protest on their own. A coach lays down the cartwheel mat with the little hands and feet and leads everyone to the right.

One of the primary questions really is how much does it matter to mislead a leftie to be a rightie?

I think, like all things, misleading a leftie will matter more for some gymnasts than for others. But I'm hoping to find out some range of effects, or beliefs by others.

 

[Alyssa S.]

I have coached little ones learning this skills for a number of years but only had 3 in that time who kicked back standing on their dominant /more stable foot. The rest have all kicked over leading with their dominant leg and using their best split. As a 180 split is required in back walkover in some of our grades most children need to use their best split to achieve this.

I am a rightie all the way except I snowboard left foot first. My younger dd is left handed, right split, right RO / CW etc, natural left twister forwards. However she can twist both so was picked up early to remember to twist right as her round off and cartwheel are so strongly right sided.

I like this. Compare boxers: without coaching, people put their dominant side in front to punch or kick. With coaching, however, you find more power, usually, with the dominant side in back (leading with the weaker side). Think of throwing a baseball like throwing a hook punch--there is usually more power from the rear, twisting towards the other/WEAKER side. I say "usually" because there are many reasons in boxing for leading with the dominant side; and developing a powerful weak side--but that might be too remote for this thread.

(I'm sure that a couple of people here will barely resist the temptation to point out "Gymnastics is not boxing...Gymnastics is not baseball." I get that.)

The questions remain open, how do you determine best practices or an "optimal" approach in gymnastics for selecting RO and twist; and how much does it matter?

Are the USAG video exemplars (performed with a reading of the official text, and only a couple of very minor deviations) the best examples for the Right-dominant gymnast?

 

[Jenny]

In our system it doesn't matter much.

 

[Alyssa S.]

I like this. Compare boxers: without coaching, people put their dominant side in front to punch or kick. With coaching, however, you find more power, usually, with the dominant side in back (leading with the weaker side). Think of throwing a baseball like throwing a hook punch--there is usually more power from the rear, twisting towards the other/WEAKER side. I say "usually" because there are many reasons in boxing for leading with the dominant side; and developing a powerful weak side--but that might be too remote for this thread.

(I'm sure that a couple of people here will barely resist the temptation to point out "Gymnastics is not boxing...Gymnastics is not baseball." I get that.)

The questions remain open, how do you determine best practices or an "optimal" approach in gymnastics for selecting RO and twist; and how much does it matter?

Are the USAG video exemplars (performed with a reading of the official text, and only a couple of very minor deviations) the best examples for the Right-dominant gymnast?

I wanted to add to my own post. ... If the optimal direction for RO is analogous to throwing a baseball, then Righties should RO with a LEFT hurdle and twist counterclockwise (Left), correct? It seems that such a choice would make a substantial difference, at least for a baseball pitcher.

 

[gymdog]

with all due respect, I don't think you understood what I said. You absolutely can begin teaching a natural leftie to cartwheel right at 3, 4, 5, maybe 6 until they are old enough to protest on their own. A coach lays down the cartwheel mat with the little hands and feet and leads everyone to the right.

One of the primary questions really is how much does it matter to mislead a leftie to be a rightie?

I think, like all things, misleading a leftie will matter more for some gymnasts than for others. But I'm hoping to find out some range of effects, or beliefs by others.

No, I'm really curious. Do you teach gymnastics to 3 year olds?

 

[gymdog]

I have coached little ones learning this skills for a number of years but only had 3 in that time who kicked back standing on their dominant /more stable foot. The rest have all kicked over leading with their dominant leg and using their best split. As a 180 split is required in back walkover in some of our grades most children need to use their best split to achieve this.

Typically I find when it is introduced when the children are strong and stable on both sides they will choose their good leg. But when they are pushed to do it early before being completely stable, they will much ire frequently choose to stand on their good leg in the bridge. That's why I recommend working the exercises and balancing activities on both sides, it will eliminate the issue. I think in general this may be more the direction your R&C takes so I would expect the results you're getting

 

[skschlag]

D is truly mixed dominance, both handedness and in the gym. That has led to its own set of challenges. I *think* he twists left, and round offs left (again, guessing) but he leads fhs with his right. I think his scale is better on his left leg than his right. he pirouettes with left hand down, and turns with left leg. He circles on the pommel horse counterclockwise (left?) Ok..now I think he must do mostly left and the fhs is the only strange thing.

He has kiddos on his team that circle clockwise, right roundoff and right twist. There is not a set rule. I know the coaches try to figure out which way is best for each boy, but sometimes (like D) it becomes a challenge.

Add to the confusion, apparently he is right twisting now on his pbar dismount. He was doing left, now right and coach has no idea why. Neither does d...sigh.

 

[thefellowsmom]

The deduction for reversing a major element is half the value of the skill. So since the split is worth .2, the deduction is .1. In optionals it doesn't matter which side gymnasts split & tumble on They can tumble left & split right with no deduction

HA! So I guess I can't blame her low scores on that... So funny to think back to how stressed out and confused I used to be.

 

[Alyssa S.]

There could be additional deductions if reversing the split resulted in changes to her direction or other "text" errors (despite being performed flawlessly).

 

[Alyssa S.]

 

[Alyssa S.]

No, I'm really curious. Do you teach gymnastics to 3 year olds?

Why? Do you need some advice on how to lead them?

 

[Amusibus]

Here is a link to a 2012 thread I posted on the same topic that had some fascinating and detailed explanations, particularly from Dunno:

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/leftie-gymnast.39252/

Worth the read!

 

[gymdog]

Why? Do you need some advice on how to lead them?

It would help me put your replies in context. Personally, I find the idea that simply putting down a right pre printed cartwheel mat will result in a 3 year old doing a righty cartwheel for life fairly absurd. First of all, putting down a cartwheel mat for beginners, much less 3 year olds who lack spatial awareness, tends to produce absurd results that don't resemble a cartwheel much whatsoever. The kids will put their hands down and twist any which way really. But perhaps you teach 3 year olds with superb spatial awareness skills and cognitive retention, and it is as simple as you say. That said my 3 year old classes look very different than yours then!

But there is no way to convince you if that is the preconceived notion you have of what it is like for small children to be taught/learn gymnastics. It's not really likely that a child would be working with the same coach from age 3 through elite and thus would never be allowed to do their dominant side cartwheel. It's certainly unlikely that showing a left dominant 3 year old a righty cartwheel would then result in them doing right cartwheels for more than one minute. So I don't find any of this hypothetical scenario very compelling, since we're talking about USAG and that is just not the way it works in gymnastics programs in the US.

It is hard to answer your hypothetical because most people use their dominant side in gymnastics. Would it affect you later on? I really can't imagine that if you do, for example, a right round off back handspring proficiently enough to do elite level tumbling out of it, that it really affects or affected you that much. Gymnastics is all just a series of habits, so if you were capable of proficiently learning on your right side I guess you would learn. But the likelihood of overriding the neurological basis for sidedness in the long term seems low. The children would switch back to their dominant side at EVERY opportunity, which would be basically every time they did gymnastics ever. So you are telling me that short of intensive private coaching from age 3, a coach could make sure a left dominant child with no ambidextrous tendencies always did right sided gymnastics? Not in the USA gymnastics system, nope. Most likely if a coach successfully switched a child they had ambidextrous tendencies and the switch was to correct confusion and technical errors.

 

[JBS]

All of our athletes are ambidextrous and can do all skills either way. Just today we had a kid do both a right and left roundoff straight into a front handspring double back. When we asked her how she learned this she stated that anyone can learn to reverse the entire space–time continuum simply by reading the USAG compulsory text from right to left and back to front.

 

[JBS]

These really are great conversations though...the more coaches that read these threads...the more that truly understand.

 

[kandkfunk]

So, @Amusibus whatever happened with your DD's dominant leg switch? I'm curious if her coaches were successful in changing her.

And thanks for posting this. I had forgotten about this thread, but it all came back when I tried to process it again.