WAG Does USAG compulsory text and exemplar video lead Righties to Right-hurdle RO?

[cbifoja]

Honestly I don't understand why some people are so interested in Alyssa's Ph.D. Has she made any claims that her Ph.D. was relevant to coaching?

I can only speak for myself but I am a trained scientist and as such, I've long had it drummed into me that you do not just take information without knowing the credibility of the source.

Because so many of the coaches here have been here long enough that we know either who they are or have had other admins vouch for them, I feel confident with the information given by people like Dunno, coachp, gymdog, IWC, etc.

Alyssa is new so I don't have much reference and then, and I'm just being honest here, with her what feels like refusal to offer any indication of why we should attach credibility to her words and given some of our past trolls/liars, it would just be nice to know whether she is someone who has knowledge in this area or if something else is going on.

 

[gymmomx2]

Thanks @COz and @cbifoja for the explanation

I was thinking that a Ph.D. is probably irrelevant to the coaching topics being discussed but perhaps she has some other experience (coaching???) in gym or other sport.

 

[COz]

I can only speak for myself but I am a trained scientist and as such, I've long had it drummed into me that you do not just take information without knowing the credibility of the source.

Likewise.

Alyssa is new so I don't have much reference and then, and I'm just being honest here, with her what feels like refusal to offer any indication of why we should attach credibility to her words ...

When I asked, she immediately 'liked' the question but didn't answer it, which feels to me, very much like a refusal to answer.

Her research qualifications are either directly relevant, or not. It doesn't matter if they are not directly relevant. Knowing the area does help us understand where she is coming from however.

I hope this clarifies why we are interested.

 

[COz]

I was thinking that a Ph.D. is probably irrelevant to the coaching topics being discussed but perhaps she has some other experience (coaching???) in gym or other sport.

I hadn't assumed that it was relevant, but she had implied that it was. It also seemed possibly that it was, given her claims about high level coaching, which most people with PhDs in unrelated areas would probably not have time for.

Also, most people with unrelated higher degree would probably not mention them in this kind of discussion.

But again, like I suspect everyone else, I'm just confused now

 

[gymmomx2]

I hadn't assumed that it was relevant, but she had implied that it was. It also seemed possibly that it was, given her claims about high level coaching, which most people with PhDs in unrelated areas would probably not have time for.

Also, most people with unrelated higher degree would probably not mention them in this kind of discussion.

But again, like I suspect everyone else, I'm just confused now

now I am both confused and suspicious

 

[COz]

and I'm hungry. It's almost 3am here and I should be asleep, but I'd *really* like some marshmallows!
Not that that would really stop me from being hungry, I'd need something else to go with them.

What was that? Oh, yes. I just gave myself a warning for being off topic

 

[mommyof1]

Interesting stuff. Does anyone remember figure skater, Oksana Baiul colliding with the German skater during warm ups at the 1994 Olympic Games? I remember at the time, a big deal was made of the fact that she was the only right twister on the ice so she had to skate against the flow of traffic. I don't know much about figure skating but I believe all left twisting jumps land on the right leg? Presumably, the landing leg would be most skater's dominant leg. It is my understanding that most figure skaters are left twisters.

Left twisting (counterclockwise) jumps do land on the right leg, but the landing leg is not the dominant leg in terms of jumping. A figure skater who rotates counterclockwise jumps off the left leg for a waltz jump or axel (these are the jumps that take off facing forward, and the waltz jump is one of the indicators coaches look at when deciding which way a beginning skater should rotate). This same athlete would take off on the left foot for high jump, long jump, or triple jump in track, and would cartwheel with the left foot forward. The athlete would probably also be right-handed.

I pole vaulted for a couple of seasons in high school. I am right-handed but also strongly right-footed (right cartwheel, clockwise rotation in figure skating, took off on right foot for triple jump and high jump). I had to choose whether to hold the pole on the wrong side or to jump off the wrong foot. It ended up being more natural to hold the pole on the right, so I had to learn to take off on my left foot, which was not the easiest thing to do.

I have noticed that the proportion of right-footed gymnasts in my daughter's group always seems to be higher than the proportion of right-footed jumpers and clockwise figure skaters I encountered when I participated in those sports. This is puzzling, because I would expect most people to favor the same side for all sports. Maybe it's just an artifact of the small sample sizes for my observations, but maybe it's because the hands are more important in gymnastics than in other sports so right-handedness can sometimes trump left-footedness. I do not have a Ph.D. in any related field, though, so who knows.

 

[CanAmGymMum]

I have noticed that the proportion of right-footed gymnasts in my daughter's group always seems to be higher than the proportion of right-footed jumpers and clockwise figure skaters I encountered when I participated in those sports.

I have noticed this too. Many other sports seem to favor left twisting to a greater degree than gymnastics.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Left twisting (counterclockwise) jumps do land on the right leg, but the landing leg is not the dominant leg in terms of jumping. A figure skater who rotates counterclockwise jumps off the left leg for a waltz jump or axel (these are the jumps that take off facing forward, and the waltz jump is one of the indicators coaches look at when deciding which way a beginning skater should rotate). This same athlete would take off on the left foot for high jump, long jump, or triple jump in track, and would cartwheel with the left foot forward. The athlete would probably also be right-handed.

I pole vaulted for a couple of seasons in high school. I am right-handed but also strongly right-footed (right cartwheel, clockwise rotation in figure skating, took off on right foot for triple jump and high jump). I had to choose whether to hold the pole on the wrong side or to jump off the wrong foot. It ended up being more natural to hold the pole on the right, so I had to learn to take off on my left foot, which was not the easiest thing to do.

I have noticed that the proportion of right-footed gymnasts in my daughter's group always seems to be higher than the proportion of right-footed jumpers and clockwise figure skaters I encountered when I participated in those sports. This is puzzling, because I would expect most people to favor the same side for all sports. Maybe it's just an artifact of the small sample sizes for my observations, but maybe it's because the hands are more important in gymnastics than in other sports so right-handedness can sometimes trump left-footedness. I do not have a Ph.D. in any related field, though, so who knows.

and for good reason. with the pole on the right and pushing off the left foot creates "2 opposing forces" left to right so that the pole strike is balanced in the box. it also allows the body to go up reasonably straight. if you pushed off the right foot and the pole was on the right the body would go up like the leaning tower leaning to the right and could risk missing the bag.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Did I miss the answer to these questions.

I've been reading this thread, fascinated by the depth of passion of so many people wanting to understand what those of us on the outside consider such a minor part of gymnastics.

I'm already pretty familiar with the credential/credibility of most of the posters in this thread, but I'm wondering if I missed a post somewhere that would help me lend credibility to some of our newer members.

i mentioned "eastern european" up thread. i'm assuming, and maybe incorrectly, that she may have a "Master of Sport".

 

[raenndrops]

I can't make sense of that tumble in my head. Do you mean back handspring? I am in awe that anyone can do a round off change direction forwards into a front handspring change direction into a double back. Sounds awesome though.

I took what JBS said as a joke... reread the last couple of lines!

 

[my4buffaloes]

Even after this entire discussion I could not tell you what foot or which way the other girls at our gym do things. I mean really, who has time for that??? sometimes it is best to be a happily clueless parent. There are less things to stress over this way.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Neuroscience For Kids
One Brain...or Two?

How many brains do you have - one or two? Actually, this is quite easy to answer...you have only one brain. However, the cerebral hemispheres are divided right down the middle into a right hemisphere and a left hemisphere. Each hemisphere appears to be specialized for some behaviors. The hemispheres communicate with each other through a thick band of 200-250 million nerve fibers called the corpus callosum. (A smaller band of nerve fibers called the anterior commissure also connects parts of the cerebral hemispheres.)

Handedness

Are you right-handed or left-handed? As you probably know, most people (about 90% of the population) are right-handed - they prefer to use their right hand to write, eat and throw a ball. Another way to refer to people who use their right hand is to say that they are dominant. It follows that most of the other 10% of the population is left-handed or "left hand dominant." There are few people who use each hand equally; they are "ambidextrous." (Most people also have a dominant eye and dominant ear...test your "sidedness" here.)

Exactly why people are right-handed or left-handed is somewhat of a mystery. Dr. William Calvin has developed a fascinating theory about the origin of handedness and has written an essay called The Throwing Madonna to explain it.

Right Side - Left Side

The right side of the brain controls muscles on the left side of the body and the left side of the brain controls muscles on the right side of the body. Also, in general, sensory information from the left side of the body crosses over to the right side of the brain and information from the right side of the body crosses over to the left side of the brain. Therefore, damage to one side of the brain will affect the opposite side of the body.

In 95% of right-handers, the left side of the brain is dominant for language. Even in 60-70% of left-handers, the left side of brain is used for language. Back in the 1860s and 1870s, two neurologists (Paul Broca and Karl Wernicke) observed that people who had damage to a particular area on the left side of the brain had speech and language problems. People with damage to these areas on the right side usually did not have any language problems. The two language areas of the brain that are important for language now bear their names: Broca's area and Wernicke's area.

Broca's Area

Wernicke's Area

Images courtesy of Slice of Life.

Cerebral Dominance
Each hemisphere of the brain is dominant for other behaviors. For example, it appears that the right brain is dominant for spatial abilities, face recognition, visual imagery and music. The left brain may be more dominant for calculations, math and logical abilities. Of course, these are generalizations and in normal people, the two hemispheres work together, are connected, and share information through the corpus callosum. Much of what we know about the right and left hemispheres comes from studies in people who have had the corpus callosum split - this surgical operation isolates most of the right hemisphere from the left hemisphere. This type of surgery is performed in patients suffering from epilepsy. The corpus callosum is cut to prevent the spread of the "epileptic seizure" from one hemisphere to the other.

Dominant Functions
Left Hemisphere

• Language
• Math
• Logic

Right Hemisphere

• Spatial abilities
• Face recognition
• Visual imagery
• Music

Copyright © 1996-2011, Eric H. Chudler All Rights Reserve

 

[auswi]

I seem to vaguely remember from her initial profile page before she changed it, her Ph. D. was in group behaviour- also fits with some of her earlier generalised observations ( haven't figured out to quote from other threads yet -sorry)

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thanks @COz and @cbifoja for the explanation

I was thinking that a Ph.D. is probably irrelevant to the coaching topics being discussed but perhaps she has some other experience (coaching???) in gym or other sport.

unless Alyssa has a Master of Sport diploma.

 

[Alyssa S.]

By "some people" I assume you mean me

I was interested because Alyssa made a few comments about how her and her husband's higher degrees had helped with something or rather.
She also (in my interpretation) accused Dunno of making up research and said she couldn't find any published work on whatever area was being discussed, which implied at least a familiarity with the area.
The above interactions and her references to her qualifications made me think that it would perhaps help us understand her background.

Alyssa did say that she had a 'dry land' training facility(?) for diving in her basement or something and had coached diving at an international level. Or was that her husband? Or am I now confusing posters? I don't know, it's all very confusing.

Someone arguing about research, techniques and questioning the qualifications of others should at least be prepared to disclose their own qualifications.

But hey, it doesn't matter what I think. I don't even own a trampoline!

You are indeed confusing posters. I simply prefer to preserve my anonymity and focus on truth instead of resumes to avoid nurturing prejudice (and ignorance). I regret disclosing that my husband and I have doctorate degrees. I don't demand special treatment (and I don't give any).

Yet I can't help but feel deep respect for people that have opened up their practices and perspectives for comment especially when they KNOW it will be unpopular or criticized.
...
If you recall, I am the one who said there is enough room for every gymnast to get a 10, we'll just build bigger podiums.

But first things first--focusing on what is optimal for gymnasts under this topic, recognizing that some experienced coaches believe it is not critical; while some believe it is determinitive of success (and enjoyment); and some merely want a simple shortcut for a difficult subject.

 

[cbifoja]

Even after this entire discussion I could not tell you what foot or which way the other girls at our gym do things. I mean really, who has time for that??? sometimes it is best to be a happily clueless parent. There are less things to stress over this way.

LOL....it's so funny how people are different. I am finding this fascinating! It's not stressing to me and I don't want to be clueless. I love learning about new stuff.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

this subject matter has fascinated me since i was young. i was a senior in high school 1972 and was at the Olympics in Munich. it was a sad time for many of us in sport and more so too those of us that are Jewish.

i was sitting in the bleachers. notebook and #2 pencil. my coach asked me what i was doing. i told him that i was writing down the names of the competitors and noting whether they did left or right round offs, which way they twisted and what arm they blind changed on and if it was the same arm as their Ono.

my coach said "why are you doing that?" and "don't you just want to enjoy what you're watching?" and then "what will you do with this information?"

as was the time, my English teacher gave the 1st assignment of the school year. what did you do this summer and did you learn anything. remember those "what did you do this summer" papers?

well, i wrote the paper on what i learned in Munich. i got an A. the notes from the teacher were "i don't know anything about gymnastics but this paper and the information was very interesting even though i don't understand what you are writing about". "very good".

of course my mom kept the paper. it's in her stuff.

 

[profmom]

Sorry, but this is freaking fingernails on chalkboard level of annoyance. DOCTORAL, not doctorate degree. It's like calling a female graduate of an institution "an alumni." Shudder. Also, I do not believe there is an accredited Ph.D. in group behavior, at least not in the United States. That would be akin to claiming a doctoral degree in Jane Austen rather than in English.

I find the left and right hand stuff interesting mostly because I grew up with a lefty mother and have a lefty MIL, so I'm pretty conscious of how the world is set up to privilege right dominance in handedness. Plus, with two kids who both have two lefty grandmas tumbling away on my dime, I was genuinely curious, and surprised to notice the difference for the first time. I've always found genetics quite interesting from the grossest layperson's standpoint.

I am just old enough to remember Munich. Z"l.

 

[raenndrops]

I totally agree with this -- I haven't witnessed any crazy modifications happening either. I think the allowances to reverse most major skills accommodate most gymnasts quite well.

And as a "lefty", I can tell you that the neuro preference/tendency is quite strong. I couldn't turn myself into a "righty" no matter how hard I tried. I may be able to be functional, but those skills that I perform without thinking now would require much thought and concentration. Try using your mouse with the opposite hand...it doesn't feel right. Doesn't mean I couldn't do it, but I will never be as quick, accurate and efficient with that hand. I think the same would apply here. But I'm not a neurologist either.

I am a lefty (but pretty ambidextrous)... I use the mouse on the right side. Left feels unnatural to me, lol. I can write either way. But in baseball, I can't tell the difference in batting left or right. I can catch with either hand, but throwing right feels (and based on home movies from he 80s) looks awkward, even though I can throw just as far. I only have (and have ever had) one split - right leg in front. Handstand, I lunge into right leg first... and (if I could actually do a FWO), I would land right leg first. Could never kick over either way, but I WOULD kick right leg over first if I could do it at all.
I am left eye dominant (which USUALLY isn't a big deal for people but I have exotropism and always see double, so picking an eye to focus on is a very big deal). [If you want to see which eye is your dominant one, there is a test. Hold your arms out in front of you. Touch your thumbs and forefingers together to make a diamond. Sit back in your chair and, with both eyes open, pick a word on the computer screen to see through your diamond. Close one eye. If the word is still in the diamond, then the open eye is dominant. If the word is no longer in the box, your closed eye is dominant. Try switching eyes to make sure you didn't move your fingers, lol.].
I mention eye dominance because I could see how that might also affect twisting - If i spin one way, I get dizzy faster than if I spin the other way... of course, that MIGHT also just be due to the double vision.