WAG Elite Track Necessary?

[bookworm]

Chow wasn't a nationally well-known coach at the time that she was trying to go elite.

Kim Zmeskal began her gym, right? On her reputation as a former Olympian? I really have no knowledge about this at all - it's just the impression I've gotten.

Chow was on the Chinese national team for years and Kim was on ours....they weren't unknowns....I totally agree with Lizzielac that it's a lot of who you know...

 

[bookworm]

I will only add that if the skills are not worked to pass the compulsory portion then a child has no chance. Particularly on bars.
.

This is so true and people don't realize it...we knew a gymnast back when my daughter was testing who passed the optional portion 3 years in a row but could never pass the compulsory portion....so no elite qualification for her..

 

[gymgal]

I will only add that if the skills are not worked to pass the compulsory portion then a child has no chance. Particularly on bars.
Here are the requirements on bars for the compulsory portion.
Straight body cast, 2nd straight body cast to pirouette. 2 circling elements to H stand, (freehip, toe shoot, stalder). Blind change and front giants . These are the basics required.

I am surprised by this. I have always heard that the girls have an easier time passing the compulsory and get stuck on getting a high enough score on the optional portion. I have watched compulsory videos on youtube and it just doesn't seem all that difficult for someone looking to compete elite. Most high level L9s have the skills required in all the events. What am I missing? Why are girls having a hard time passing this portion?

 

[bookworm]

.it just doesn't seem all that difficult for someone looking to compete elite. Most high level L9s have the skills required in all the events. What am I missing? Why are girls having a hard time passing this portion?

Form, form , form...sloppy form is it in a nutshell...

 

[LizzieLac]

Do you think this is ALWAYS true? I remember reading about Shawn Johnson's story, and my impression was that Chow wasn't a nationally well-known coach at the time that she was trying to go elite. I'm sure it is extremely difficult to break into the 'club' so to speak, but if the OP's gym has coaches who are former Olympians, wouldn't that count for something? That is how Kim Zmeskal began her gym, right? On her reputation as a former Olympian? I really have no knowledge about this at all - it's just the impression I've gotten. I'm sure someone will correct me if this isn't accurate.

I think it is generally true, but sure there are exceptions. We had a girl at our gym a couple of years ago, who got noticed by Valeri at level 9 easterns. She did quite well and you can just see that she is not like other gymnasts. She was invited to developmental camp and one of our coaches went with her. Our coaches are good - we get kids to level 10 all the time and we have had many college gymnasts, some on D1 scholarships. BUT, they are not elite coaches and when it comes time for Marta or Valeri to seriously look at girls for national team they simply would not be taking phone calls from our coaches, who are not recognized in that world. She HAD to switch to another gym to be able to be seen as a serious contender.

Based on what your saying about the OP, those former Olympians turned coaches could probably get their phone calls taken...

 

[hearts_and_stars]

You guys know SO much more than me!

Form and technique have never been DD's issue; neither has strength, for that matter. HC often told DD that she had the strength of a Level 8 or 9 gymnast, but she needed to learn how to control it. As she has gotten older, she has begun to learn how to control her body and her gymnastics has taken off. (She has always been a top 10 gymnast, but HC is hoping this year she could be a podium gymnast).

I've been told by those who know more than me that DD would have made an excellent TOPS gymnast, but HC elected not to have a TOPS program because she believed it was too much to ask of such young girls (so I guess we'll never know). I've also been told by the same people I need to find a gym with an elite track for her, hence the reason for my original question...

I don't think it would hurt to take her to a gym that has an elite track and have her evaluated. Hopefully they will be honest with me (and her!) and not just tell me what they think I want to hear...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

www.changingthegameproject.com/more-important-than-talent


This is the blog I was referencing.

hahahahahahahaha...i didn't see this till now. i was only being a bit tongue in cheek. lol.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Front giants are hard if u r not taught them.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I am surprised by this. I have always heard that the girls have an easier time passing the compulsory and get stuck on getting a high enough score on the optional portion. I have watched compulsory videos on youtube and it just doesn't seem all that difficult for someone looking to compete elite. Most high level L9s have the skills required in all the events. What am I missing? Why are girls having a hard time passing this portion?

==
Okay Disclaimer; I have never had an Elite, but I sure am trying! That being said,,,
To reply to your question "what am I missing"? Most level 9/10's could not even attempt the Hopes/JrElite bar routine because the setting is on FIG, which is way to close for them. You then factor in the straight body casts in the routine, and you just eliminated a bunch more, now add in the front giant on FIG and forget it.... These kids spend years training on the FIG setting and learning the basics just to get through the door. So the notion that anyone can train to level 9/10 and then just jump over to Elite without any prep is well,,,,,, a fantasy. Key word prep. Hope that helps.

 

[iwannacoach]

==
Okay Disclaimer; I have never had an Elite, *but I sure am trying!*.............

Nice!.......

 

[gasrgoose]

There is a current junior elite who's coaches have never coached elites. The kid has gone to the ranch for a while but the coach had never been before she was invited. They've had other girls invited and not invited back. But this kid just has "IT". She works incredibly hard, she's extremely talented, she's focused and she's going to wear a USA leo.

The notion that Elite is an inside club that doesn't choose other worthy gymnasts is a MYTH! If the kid has "IT" and the coaches can develop "IT" then they have a chance of wearing the USA leo. Most people who claim "the myth" really just don't understand what it required (by coaches, parents and gymnasts).

 

[gymgal]

== To reply to your question "what am I missing"? Most level 9/10's could not even attempt the Hopes/JrElite bar routine because the setting is on FIG, which is way to close for them. You then factor in the straight body casts in the routine, and you just eliminated a bunch more, now add in the front giant on FIG and forget it.... These kids spend years training on the FIG setting and learning the basics just to get through the door. So the notion that anyone can train to level 9/10 and then just jump over to Elite without any prep is well,,,,,, a fantasy. Key word prep. Hope that helps.

yes, that's an eye roll. I did not say, nor do I think my post implied that a L9/10 could "just jump over to Elite". What I said was that most *high* level 9's can do the skills in the compulsory routines (aside from maybe the straight body casts, though depending on the gym they are coming from, they might have that too) - so, I can't understand why a gymnast *who is training elite* (and presumably working on these routines, with straight body casts and all) would have difficulty performing these routines. I get that most 9/10s would not be able to do the bar routine on FIG but, as you point out, the assumption is that those training elite would have been training on FIG the entire time (or at least from the point the decision was made that they are going to try to go elite). And I can certainly understand a gymnast who is not prepared to make the jump. But how can one who can easily pass the optional portion of the elite testing not be able to pass the compulsory portion? Just seems really off to me. So, again, What am I missing?

 

[mpkbt]

Be careful taking her to another gym to be evaluated! Coaches can be very touchy about this for good reason. I would have a honest conversation (even if it is not what you want to hear) with the current coaches before going to another gym. It is a SMALL world in gymnastics.

 

[gasrgoose]

Be careful taking her to another gym to be evaluated! Coaches can be very touchy about this for good reason. I would have a honest conversation (even if it is not what you want to hear) with the current coaches before going to another gym. It is a SMALL world in gymnastics.

great advice!

 

[Gymsanity]

My experience has been that the compulsories are the least of your worries! If your athlete isn't able to do them with their eyes closed as a L9/10, then all you can really hope to do is limp in and call yourself an elite, but as far as making the team, (my opinion) not a chance. The compulsories are comprised of basic skill to show form, detail, technique, execution, proficiency, safety, etc. Your athlete should have all of those long before trying to qualify.

 

[hearts_and_stars]

A lot of you guys have posted about 'the ranch'...I'm assuming that is the Karolyi Ranch here in the Houston area? I've thought about sending DD to camp there but I worry about her because she is still so young and she's never done anything more than overnight at a friend's house. Because of my work schedule, it would be impossible for me to get her there and pick her up as a day camper...

But I do have questions for the future (like when she's a little older)...
1. How do you get invited?
2. What level do you need to be to receive an invitation?
3. If the invited group is different from the summer camp, what are the differences?
4. Are gymnastics summer camps worth it for the younger girls (DD is almost 11)?

 

[Justmehere]

A lot of you guys have posted about 'the ranch'...I'm assuming that is the Karolyi Ranch here in the Houston area? I've thought about sending DD to camp there but I worry about her because she is still so young and she's never done anything more than overnight at a friend's house. Because of my work schedule, it would be impossible for me to get her there and pick her up as a day camper...

But I do have questions for the future (like when she's a little older)...
1. How do you get invited?
2. What level do you need to be to receive an invitation?
3. If the invited group is different from the summer camp, what are the differences?
4. Are gymnastics summer camps worth it for the younger girls (DD is almost 11)?

I believe what you are talking about is their summer camps which are open to anyone to go. Everyone else is talking about the developmental camp.
1. Be in the best of a certain percentile for your age group
2. Level doesn't matter, skill does
3. Others could word this better than I can
4. I have no experience with young kids going to summer camp.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

all i have to add is what i have posted before...coaching at the Elite level is the hardest thing i have ever done in my life. above all else. the end.

 

[Sidnito]

A lot of you guys have posted about 'the ranch'...I'm assuming that is the Karolyi Ranch here in the Houston area? I've thought about sending DD to camp there but I worry about her because she is still so young and she's never done anything more than overnight at a friend's house. Because of my work schedule, it would be impossible for me to get her there and pick her up as a day camper...

But I do have questions for the future (like when she's a little older)...
1. How do you get invited?
2. What level do you need to be to receive an invitation?
3. If the invited group is different from the summer camp, what are the differences?
4. Are gymnastics summer camps worth it for the younger girls (DD is almost 11)?

From my limited experience I can tell you that Tops is the youngest way to get invited at age 8-10 years old. You have to qualify through state testing and then qualify for camp. After that there's Hopes, additionally the coach would have to send in video's to get your DD noticed to get an invite.
I don't know a lot about the summer camp but I imagine that is more of a "camp" experience for fun.

 

[Bess]

I sure wish every state had a gym option for those dreaming of elite...those masochists ;-)