Coaches Ethical Spotting?

[estamey21]

I am a "hands-on" coach. In my mind, spotting is for safety and also for reinforcing correct body position. My spotting technique is rudimentary, but so are my students. Sometimes my students have said they dislike my spotting. I respect any complaints and refrain from spotting "upon request". But I wonder:

1. Should I ask my students why they don't like my spotting?
2. How do I know if I am actually bad at spotting?
3. Should I enroll in courses (out of my own pocket) to become a better spotter?

 

[WV Gym Mom]

I would also ask a senior coach or gym staff to observe your methods and ask for feedback. Gymnasts should always feel comfortable...and safe. If the gymnasts are uncomfortable with your methods, they might not be able to easily put into words why, or may feel confronted, or uncomfortable, explaining exactly why with you. Maybe have another coach talk to them and ask?

 

[Aussie_coach]

Some kids don’t like to be spotted, they see someone in their peripheral vision or they are worried they are going to kick you, hit you or land on you. They want to feel a clear wide open space around them.

Yes, ask them to clarify but sometimes it just a dislike of spotting rather than a dislike of the way you spot.

Have you ever dropped any of them or failed to catch them?

In my experience spotting is not the most effective way of coaching anyway. Kids become overly reliant on the spot. Ultimately to get kids To do a skill they need to prove to themselves that they can.

For example to do a skill on beam they prove to themselves they can do it on low beam with a mat, then without, going through step by step until their mind understands and trusts that they can do the skill.

 

[JPC13]

In my experience spotting is not the most effective way of coaching anyway. Kids become overly reliant on the spot. Ultimately to get kids To do a skill they need to prove to themselves that they can.

For example to do a skill on beam they prove to themselves they can do it on low beam with a mat, then without, going through step by step until their mind understands and trusts that they can do the skill.

You obviously know what you're doing, but what do you think about spotting skills as a way to build specific strength when kids aren't strong enough to do it alone? For instance, give a bit of a boost on a cast to handstand?

 

[Kolabola29]

You obviously know what you're doing, but what do you think about spotting skills as a way to build specific strength when kids aren't strong enough to do it alone? For instance, give a bit of a boost on a cast to handstand?

It seems like spotting serves different purposes on different events, and can therefore be useful or not useful on different events. On bars, for example, spotting can help with building strength to do skills, building confidence to make connections that are difficult, and allowing the gymnast to get the “feel” of the skill—it’s super important because bars is so different from every other event. On beam, the skills are almost all skills you do on floor, so it’s more a matter of mental toughness than technique and strength to do the skills. So self-progressions on beam can be more important than spotting. But I am betting it also depends on the gymnast.

 

[superNova08]

I would think about where your hands are placed. As a gymnast with trauma, only certain coaches can spot me - they must be female and I must have known them for at least a month - and even then I am nervous. I have good relationships with some coaches who I will allow to spot me, but I am also always nervous that I will hit the coach.

 

[JBS]

1. Should I ask my students why they don't like my spotting?
2. How do I know if I am actually bad at spotting?
3. Should I enroll in courses (out of my own pocket) to become a better spotter?

1. Yes... 100%... especially the tweens / teens... they will tell you... then just explain your techniques or work on fixing them for their needs.
2. Ask a known "good spotter"... the coach that spots every skill that never drops anyone that all the girls request.
3. I would recommend that you have your owner or head coach go over the spotting techniques that they would like you to use. We have certain ways that our coaches are required to spot certain skills.

Advice...

• Watch videos of good spotters on Youtube and video yourself spotting and compare.
• Make sure you are smooth yet firm with your spotting...
  • Smooth - You should be "with the rhythm of the skill". In other words... your arms and hands should not "smack" them on contact. Your arms and hands should also not be sliding all over their body as this is just weird. Your lifting and spotting should go with their momentum when possible... you should just be adding to the movement.
  • Firm - Grab them firmly when you are first spotting a skill such as a blind change on bars. They need to feel as if you will not drop them. Once trust is established and the skill is improving... then you can reduce the spot.
• Make sure they know when you are practicing. Tell them that you have not spotted the skill before and you are learning. Have a senior coach help you with this process. Practice on kids that can already do the skill first.
• Apologize for bad hand placements and bad spots right away.
• DO NOT BLAME THE KIDS... you will be labeled as a "bad spotter" and they will not want to go to you for a spot.
• If you are not a great spotter... make sure you have a coach in the gym that is a great spotter. Ask them for help spotting when needed. If this coach tells you that your athlete is not ready for the skill yet... listen to them immediately and ask the next steps to get them ready for the skill.

That was just some random stuff... but we spot a ton at our gym. We look for very strong people on certain events (bars & trampoline). We have two coaches that have never done gymnastics before... they have both developed first into great spotters... and now into great coaches as well... they both dead lift over 500 lbs. These coaches both workout (weight lift) on a regular basis... we purchased $11,000 worth of free weights for our team and coaches to use. Coaches can use the gym free of charge to train / workout whenever they would like as long as there are at least 2 of them there and all safe sport standards are followed as well.

We teach all of our coaches to spot no matter how strong they are... however... strength is necessary for spotting.

 

[ReluctantGymMom]

YES you should ask the kids why they think you’re a bad spotter - ask the older girls, they’ll be more honest, but the younger ones will talk about it behind your back with each other.

We had a coach who was a college gymnast, but she coached lower levels, with us one day and she spotted my daughter on a backtuck on tramp by grabbing the back of Her leo. 1) my child in particular hates being spotted except on beam because she doesn’t trust people not to drop her, 2) she didn’t need a spot and she felt blind sided and 3) she said it was scary as hell

That’s the way the coach had been spotted as a kid on the same skill so she did the same thing. The girls talked smack about it for WEEKS. They all avoided her!

Yes you should definetly learn to spot from someone who is a good spotter and don’t take offense if a kid doesn’t want you specifically. A few girls wanted the bar/vault coach to spot them on beam, but it was because the beam coach was a 4”10 woman and he was a 6 foot tall man so they felt safer with him up high. She didn’t take it personally, even though she’s an excellent spotter

 

[estamey21]

I would also ask a senior coach or gym staff to observe your methods and ask for feedback.

I would recommend that you have your owner or head coach go over the spotting techniques that they would like you to use.

Always great advice: ask the head coach I will be more proactive about this.

 

[estamey21]

Some kids don’t like to be spotted...sometimes it just a dislike of spotting rather than a dislike of the way you spot.

As a gymnast with trauma, only certain coaches can spot me

Thanks for explaining. I think I will start asking girls if they want a spot instead of the "opting out" approach I've been using so far.

 

[estamey21]

Have you ever dropped any of them or failed to catch them?

We had a coach who was a college gymnast, but she coached lower levels, with us one day and she spotted my daughter on a backtuck on tramp by grabbing the back of Her leo.

I'm happy to report I'm not that bad at spotting (e.g. if I don't know how to spot a skill, I just don't). But I appreciate the cautionary tales in this thread. I definitely don't want to earn a bad reputation!

 

[estamey21]

1. Yes... 100%... especially the tweens / teens... they will tell you... then just explain your techniques or work on fixing them for their needs.
2. Ask a know "good spotter"... the coach that spot every skill that never drops anyone that all the girls request.
3. I would recommend that you have your owner or head coach go over the spotting techniques that they would like you to use. We have certain ways that our coaches are required to spot certain skills.

Advice...

• Watch videos of good spotters on Youtube and video yourself spotting and compare.
• Make sure you are smooth yet firm with your spotting...
  • Smooth - You should be "with the rhythm of the skill". In other words... your arms and hands should not "smack" them on contact. Your arms and hands should also not be sliding all over their body as this is just weird. Your lifting and spotting should go with their momentum when possible... you should just be adding to the movement.
  • Firm - Grab them firmly when you are first spotting a skill such as a blind change on bars. They need to feel as if you will not drop them. Once trust is established and the skill is improving... then you can reduce the spot.
• Make sure they know when you are practicing. Tell them that you have not spotted the skill before and you are learning. Have a senior coach help you with this process. Practice on kids that can already do the skill first.
• Apologize for bad hand placements and bad spots right away.
• DO NOT BLAME THE KIDS... you will be labeled as a "bad spotter" and they will not want to go to you for a spot.
• If you are not a great spotter... make sure you have a coach in the gym that is a great spotter. Ask them for help spotting when needed. If this coach tells you that your athlete is not ready for the skill yet... listen to them immediately and ask the next steps to get them ready for the skill.

That was just some random stuff... but we spot a ton at our gym. We look for very strong people on certain events (bars & trampoline). We have two coaches that have never done gymnastics before... they have both developed first into great spotters... and now into great coaches as well... they both dead lift over 500 lbs. These coaches both workout (weight lift) on a regular basis... we purchased $11,000 worth of free weights for our team and coaches to use. Coaches can use the gym free of charge to train / workout whenever they would like as long as there are at least 2 of them there and all safe sport standards are followed as well.

We teach all of our coaches to spot no matter how strong they are... however... strength is necessary for spotting.

As always, thank you for the thorough reply.

* Great point about strength. I noticed that my spotting improved once I started strength training. I was less likely to feel pain after work, and I was also able to spot larger girls.
* Great point about open communication and practice. I will work on this with both my colleagues and students.
* Firm and smooth. My guess is that I'm a little too firm (probably because I'm not confident in myself) and my spotting is uncomfortable for the gymnast. Gotta go with the flow and trust myself .

 

[JPC13]

If you’re worried about inappropriate touching maybe consider wearing gloves. It lessens skin to skin contact, it improves your grip, and stops the chance of nail scratching.

Getting scratched is the one spotting issue that my daughter has had.

 

[JPC13]

To follow up -- I'm not sure if Al Fong is the first coach to espouse the use of spotting gloves, but he's pretty vocal about it:

 

[estamey21]

To follow up -- I'm not sure if Al Fong is the first coach to espouse the use of spotting gloves, but he's pretty vocal about it:

Thank you for this reference! Gloves are like face masks: not popular but practical in certain circumstances. If anyone is going to make gloves popular, it's Al Fong!

 

[Deleted member 25978]

I am a "hands-on" coach. In my mind, spotting is for safety and also for reinforcing correct body position. My spotting technique is rudimentary, but so are my students. Sometimes my students have said they dislike my spotting. I respect any complaints and refrain from spotting "upon request". But I wonder:

1. Should I ask my students why they don't like my spotting?
2. How do I know if I am actually bad at spotting?
3. Should I enroll in courses (out of my own pocket) to become a better spotter?

I’ll echo what a couple others have said but maybe have someone take a video of you spotting. Then have them break down what’s wrong and right. Review your hand placement and grip strength.

In terms of asking why, some kids don’t let people they don’t trust spot them. I have had a couple of those, but I don’t pry too much. I offer a light spot or to just stand there and give them ‘emotional support’. Watch more online drills to see how you can inch the kids closer to the skill without spotting.

 

[procmadz]

I asked DD about it, because she is very picky about spotters. She said there has to be a sense of trust, (and I think she kinda has to like you as a coach) and she has to trust that you will NOT drop her. When she first joined team, she let all three coaches spot and one (hadn’t done gymnastics, was a mom of a level 10 and a XS, was shorter and on the larger side) would struggle to spot her, drop her, fall over when spotting, etc. The other two were prior competition gymnasts (one who did college and one who did level 7 and college cheer) and they were “typical gymnast build”. (They we’re also just better coaches in general and they made things easier to understand for DD. The non gymnast one would tend to explain things in ways for the younger kids to understand and DD wasn’t liking that. Now, however, all of the coaches have gone, and she trusts 1 coach more than the others, but will let the other two team coaches spot. (Other two are both in college, prior competition gymnasts, (lvl 7 and 10) but are kinda skinny and also the “typical build”) It took DD a bit to trust them because she wasn’t 100% sure that they wouldn’t drop her or mess her up. The other coach she 100% trusts. She’s kinda short, and on the larger side, but she really understands mental blocks (and will work with the girls in depth to help them) (DD had mental blocks on back tumbling, going to handstand on bars, and FHS vaults for the longest time). She’s only dropped DD once, and it was the first day (and it was kind of DDs fault - she needed a HEAVY spot and forgot to mention). She also mentioned that in her perspective, as long as your hands aren’t in her privates *purposefully* you’re okay in her book. She now trusts the one coach so much, she is willing to throw skills like back ticks (she’s never even done one on a trampoline spotted) off a panel mat onto the floor. She also said that some skills she just cannot be spotted on. She HATED learning the squat on with a spot because she thought she was going to hit the spotter and they’d both fall or she’d get injured. also hated spotting front ticks because they “just felt off” to be spotted on.

TLDR:
-trust matters big time
—also on trust, it matters how they think of you (are they comfortable, have you spotted other similar girls, were you a gymnast, etc.)
-some skills just aren’t things they like being spotted
-hand placement doesn’t really matter (at least to my teen)

 

[CoachPow]

1. Yes... 100%... especially the tweens / teens... they will tell you... then just explain your techniques or work on fixing them for their needs.
2. Ask a known "good spotter"... the coach that spots every skill that never drops anyone that all the girls request.
3. I would recommend that you have your owner or head coach go over the spotting techniques that they would like you to use. We have certain ways that our coaches are required to spot certain skills.

Advice...

• Watch videos of good spotters on Youtube and video yourself spotting and compare.
• Make sure you are smooth yet firm with your spotting...
  • Smooth - You should be "with the rhythm of the skill". In other words... your arms and hands should not "smack" them on contact. Your arms and hands should also not be sliding all over their body as this is just weird. Your lifting and spotting should go with their momentum when possible... you should just be adding to the movement.
  • Firm - Grab them firmly when you are first spotting a skill such as a blind change on bars. They need to feel as if you will not drop them. Once trust is established and the skill is improving... then you can reduce the spot.
• Make sure they know when you are practicing. Tell them that you have not spotted the skill before and you are learning. Have a senior coach help you with this process. Practice on kids that can already do the skill first.
• Apologize for bad hand placements and bad spots right away.
• DO NOT BLAME THE KIDS... you will be labeled as a "bad spotter" and they will not want to go to you for a spot.
• If you are not a great spotter... make sure you have a coach in the gym that is a great spotter. Ask them for help spotting when needed. If this coach tells you that your athlete is not ready for the skill yet... listen to them immediately and ask the next steps to get them ready for the skill.

That was just some random stuff... but we spot a ton at our gym. We look for very strong people on certain events (bars & trampoline). We have two coaches that have never done gymnastics before... they have both developed first into great spotters... and now into great coaches as well... they both dead lift over 500 lbs. These coaches both workout (weight lift) on a regular basis... we purchased $11,000 worth of free weights for our team and coaches to use. Coaches can use the gym free of charge to train / workout whenever they would like as long as there are at least 2 of them there and all safe sport standards are followed as well.

We teach all of our coaches to spot no matter how strong they are... however... strength is necessary for spotting.

I agree on all of these!! I had zero background in gymnastics (had only watched Olympics on TV) before I got my arm twisted 19 years ago. I can thank a lot of patient and trusting kids, fellow coaches, and observation for my skills today. Just like the gymnasts, practice will make perfect (Size helps too- I'm 6'4 and was fresh from playing college football) but learning technique and timing is even more important. Ask, ask, ask- ask the kids what they didn't like, ask fellow coaches to demonstrate, ask for advice. Sometimes different timing or hand-placement is required for different kids. For example-We have a handful of kids working back tucks on beam. Some keep their arms in slightly longer than others, so I have to adjust my timing. The other huge thing is watching. YouTube wasn't a thing when I was beginning, but I went to the state meets and watched. I went to a local club and watched, then began to help out. Things have evolved- We've taped a bunch of spotting skills over the past few years upon request from some younger coaches. Double spot with a more skilled spotter. Just like JBS, the first time I spot a new kid or a new skill, I'm very firm, so they know I will be there at the right time-then I can back off and just follow through the skill.

Couple of things I was told and ultimately learned early on: A) Every once in awhile, despite your skill or best effort, kids will fall and possibly get hurt. They may be working double-hands to a full dismount and they miss a foot on the first handspring and go off the other side, or peel really early into a double back dismount, etc. You know tendencies of each kid, but they still make random mistakes. Don't beat yourself up for those. B) Sometimes technique goes out the window and you are just saving them from a bad fall- you just grab whatever you can grab however you can grab it. As kids get older, then tend to understand that you are catching the center of mass and there are certain places near that center of mass that may get grabbed when something goes wrong on a big skill.

Lastly, be a good student. You won't be able to spot big tricks the same as your top spotters. Work your way up to that. We've tried to train in some new folks over the years that were overconfident and/or wanted to emulate those of us who have been around awhile. That doesn't go well in building confidence with a kid. With time and practice, you will get there, and there will still be kids doing the "cool" tricks that you can spot!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

You obviously know what you're doing, but what do you think about spotting skills as a way to build specific strength when kids aren't strong enough to do it alone? For instance, give a bit of a boost on a cast to handstand?

Cast handstand is a perfect example of a skill that can and should be taught with no spotting whatsoever.

There certainly are situations where spotting is the most effective way to teach a skill, but there aren't a lot of them, especially once you get past the basics

 

[JBS]

You obviously know what you're doing, but what do you think about spotting skills as a way to build specific strength when kids aren't strong enough to do it alone? For instance, give a bit of a boost on a cast to handstand?

Cast handstand is a perfect example of a skill that can and should be taught with no spotting whatsoever.

I think this is one of those cases where you will see that coaches do very different things and they all work well. My highest level (and best) bar workers have all been spotted while learning cast handstands. They were spotted for the exact reason of building strength in the proper way so they could achieve a nice cast handstand. They are spotted in a very specific way. They were spotted on well over 50% of their casts each day.

In my experience spotting is not the most effective way of coaching anyway. Kids become overly reliant on the spot. Ultimately to get kids To do a skill they need to prove to themselves that they can.

My opinion on this is... I'm not sure I really have an opinion on it. I think I kind of need all my ways of coaching. And I think they might all be the most effective way for the exact second that I need them.

I do find that kids that are scared of things actually usually do better with less or limited spots. If they really aren't close to something... it's usually better to just give them an easier lead up or drill.

However... I also find that our highest level kids typically use spotting extensively but can also get off the spot very quickly when it's time.

We are a very spotting intensive club on bars and trampoline.

Beam is really not much spotting... most of the time no spotting at all. Typically if I am going to spot something on beam... I'm not going to spot it on the beam... I'm going to ask them to step down to the floor and spot it there. If they are going on the beam it means that they have the skill before they even attempt it the first time on the beam. We do spot lots of compulsory handstands to vertical on beam... I consider this more bar training than beam though.

Floor we spot tons and tons of back handsprings when learning... but that's basically where it stops. Sure... I spot doubles and stuff during meet warm-ups for safety... but we really don't spot them much when learning. They learn doubles on trampoline first... so they can all do them already by the time they are tumbling into one.

Vault we safety spot beginner flippers. We also spot them through double backs and double layouts on trampoline. Much of our trampoline spotting is done through the use of an overhead spotting rig.