Excessive practice times?

[lilgymmie7]

I just had to ask. I know the answer to this, but there may be others in this same situation. BTW, this is not occuring to DD, at her gym, nor would I ever consider it under any circumstance. Is training 34 hrs+ excessive for level 6 and even up. These girls are not elite , but something tells me that their 'goofy' coaches are promising that. Boy I hope the parents wise up. These coaches have been heard to promise that to all parents they think will believe them. I heard these poor kids rarely place at meets if at all. With all that training, shouldn't they be sweeping every competition? Is there any benefit to all of those hours? Are there any other gyms requiring the same? What about a parent would ever make them believe that so many hours are even necessary for JO gymnastics? Talk about prime victims of burnout!

 

[gymjoy]

No, there is no benefit at the jo levels, and very questionable if it helps even the elite gymnast.

Yes, plenty of other gyms work those kind of hours.

Some people will believe anything in their desire to make themselves the best. I totally believe this has nothing to do with their children, but it has everything do to with the parents enjoyment of saying their child works harder for more hours. It's silly, but I equate it with the runners I use to train with who tried to out do one another with who got up earliest and ran more miles each week. So who won, the guy who woke up at 3am to run 20 miles each day and blew out his knee before the race, or me, who ran when the sun was up, for less total weekly miles to finish my race with an individual best time. These guys were all about talking about their sacfifices to be more important. What did they really prove - nothing. And what drives them to be this way - societies emphasis on competition.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

No, there is no benefit at the jo levels, and very questionable if it helps even the elite gymnast.

Yes, plenty of other gyms work those kind of hours.

Some people will believe anything in their desire to make themselves the best. I totally believe this has nothing to do with their children, but it has everything do to with the parents enjoyment of saying their child works harder for more hours. It's silly, but I equate it with the runners I use to train with who tried to out do one another with who got up earliest and ran more miles each week. So who won, the guy who woke up at 3am to run 20 miles each day and blew out his knee before the race, or me, who ran when the sun was up, for less total weekly miles to finish my race with an individual best time. These guys were all about talking about their sacfifices to be more important. What did they really prove - nothing. And what drives them to be this way - societies emphasis on competition.

profound! i have nothing else to add. ^^^

 

[lilgymmie7]

You are so right Gymjoy with your words. It is just so hard to watch this go on when there are children at the brunt of it all. I go back to the mentality that most children are parent/adult pleasers. The child is the one made to suffer for the wrongs of the adults in their lives. I don't even know if any of these parents from this gym post on this site. If they do, and they recognize themselves in this post I really don't mean any disrespect. I just want to bring up a valid point before you see yourself posting, "My DD wants to quit." posts.
All parents truthfully have to do is take a look at these coaches' track record. In the last 15 years these coaches have produced a total of 3 level 10's and absolutely zero elites. But if what you stated Gym joy is correct and it probably is, these parents are not concerned with reality but how it must look to the public. "Your DD trains how many hours? She must be going to the olympics!" If only it were that easy? It certainly isn't for the child, however. I can't even imagine the deep seeded thoughts these children carry with them and will for their entire lives. I can see more books like Chalked Up will surface. We all need to smarten up in this crazy, competitive frenzied world! Competition has a definite place in a child's rearing, but if it takes away more than it teaches, morally, adequate lessons than is it really worth anything? Definitely not in my opinion.
I am getting off of my soap box now. I guess my 'teacher' mentality never ceases to escape me. However, thankfully it does shed a lot of light on how I view my own children in respect to the sport they do, school, etc. and what I want them to get out of it and their competitions.
Regretfully Dunno, you do know these coaches I speak of and you gave me sound words about them in the past. It is just an utter shame that more children will be made to go through such craziness. If a child is destined for greatness, will it not come out without such silliness in coaching mentality and in my opinion abuse of a child? I really need to stop or write a book of my own. I am ever so greatful that DD chose to do gymnastics and is at a gym that really looks out for her best interest, plus has such a sound record. I can sing their praises forever.

 

[10.0]

34 hours a week for a level 6? Wow that is a full time plus job for an adult! Wonder the kids get time and a half? That is an insane schedule and any parent who subjects their child to it should get a mental eval. The only thing I can see in it is more hours costs more dollars and promise of making your child a star will drive some parents to do so awful and strange things.

 

[gymnast88]

34 hours for level 6 is way to much!! Most kids in level 6 are about 8-12 years old and that will just burn them out. I practice 20.5 hours a week for level 8 and I get exausted from my hours. Most of those kids are probably home schooled, we have kids like that at my gym who practiced 35 hours a week, and all but two of them quit because they could not handle all of the hours. My coaches finally relized that they were pushing them too hard and they cut back about 8 hours.

 

[gymdog]

34 hours a week for a level 6? Wow that is a full time plus job for an adult! Wonder the kids get time and a half?

Not that I think this is right by any means; it's excessive. But a standard full time job is 40 hours per week (in the US, as defined by federal law - Fair Labor Standards Act), with 37 being at the low end of what some companies require as full time. States can theoretically set more generous criteria, but I believe the only one that does is CA which requires overtime at more than 8 hours per day OR 40 hours per week. So if you worked 4 days for ten hours you'd still need to be paid overtime for two of those hours per day.

 

[lilgymmie7]

Not that I think this is right by any means; it's excessive. But a standard full time job is 40 hours per week (in the US, as defined by federal law - Fair Labor Standards Act), with 37 being at the low end of what some companies require as full time. States can theoretically set more generous criteria, but I believe the only one that does is CA which requires overtime at more than 8 hours per day OR 40 hours per week. So if you worked 4 days for ten hours you'd still need to be paid overtime for two of those hours per day.

I remember not to long ago that our school district was talking about cutting a day of school by one day and increasing the remainding four days to make up for the lost day. All this in hopes of cutting our pay. I'd be for it, but I can't loose $$. These kids go 34+ and go to school? We think of ways to cut time from adults yet find ways to increase for kids? That is a bit messed up!

 

[3rd_time_around]

No, there is no benefit at the jo levels, and very questionable if it helps even the elite gymnast.

Yes, plenty of other gyms work those kind of hours.

Really? I never heard of level 6 working that many hours. Our level 6 works out 16 hours a week, and only the 9/10 team works out more than that. Our hours are the average in our state, there are some that do a little more and some a little less. I know that homeschool teams typically work out more hours, but usually they are the much higher levels than 6. I think 34 hours at that level is too much!

 

[Aussie_coach]

That is ridiculous, it sounds to me like these coaches have no idea what they are doing. If the kids were going elite you would not put them at 34 hours a week at level 6, these kids are too young and will seriously damage their bodies by training to much at an early age and will actually prevent them from ever reaching elite.

If they are training so much and not placing at meets this is just an extra sign that the coaches have no idea what they are doing.

 

[gymdog]

I remember not to long ago that our school district was talking about cutting a day of school by one day and increasing the remainding four days to make up for the lost day. All this in hopes of cutting our pay. I'd be for it, but I can't loose $$. These kids go 34+ and go to school? We think of ways to cut time from adults yet find ways to increase for kids? That is a bit messed up!

I kind of assumed they were homeschooled or did "school" at the gym only part time. Otherwise I assumed they couldn't fit in that much practice. Unfortunately in some of the cases I've seen of this school can take a back seat to the gymnastics.

 

[lilgymmie7]

Oh, I don't know if they are in my school district. I certainly hope that their parents are not bypassing school for gym. As a teacher and a parent, I can only envision such downfall for these kids if that happens. Gymnastics is awesome. Again, I wouldn't be on here if I wasn't enaamored with it or the fact that now little DD is involved. But the only ideal that will get DD and all children anywhere in their futures is an education. Knowledge IS most definitely Power! I hope no one can argue that knowledge/school should trump gym or any sport always!

 

[NGL780309]

DD's old gym had an option of intense/crazy work-outs and many girls opted to do it as early as Level 5. They "only" do 32 hours though. While I can say they have produced some elite gymnasts, they all left the gym right as they became elite or shortly before they made it. Ironically one of the gyms most successful gymnasts never bought into the craziness. Her mom is a good friend of mine and her DD managed to be a JO National Champion and get a fullride to a top SEC school where she has been quite successful while doing roughly 20 hours a week through high school. I have to add that she changed gyms her last 2 years of HS.

When DD's father and I were making the decision to leave the gym, the owner and head coach tried to convince us to stay by pointing out how great the Level 6 team was doing. At first I was thinking maybe things would get better. Then I realized their Level 6's work out 32 hours a week and the new gym's only go 14 hours with the same results. Why would anyone want that for their child?

 

[gymdog]

Oh, I don't know if they are in my school district. I certainly hope that their parents are not bypassing school for gym. As a teacher and a parent, I can only envision such downfall for these kids if that happens. Gymnastics is awesome. Again, I wouldn't be on here if I wasn't enaamored with it or the fact that now little DD is involved. But the only ideal that will get DD and all children anywhere in their futures is an education. Knowledge IS most definitely Power! I hope no one can argue that knowledge/school should trump gym or any sport always!

It's just that usually 34 hours a week to me implies two practices a day, because otherwise that would be 6 or 7 hours a day even with a weekend day. But the time they can get the gym that's not realistic for just an evening practice. And I am certainly not saying all parents who homeschool or even those who homeschool for gymnastics are giving their kids the short end of the stick. But I have heard of some cases where I think it is a little questionable that the kid is getting as good of an education as they could. You can't do everything. In the case of NCAA eligibility, of course you have to meet some guidelines, but then again, just a bare minimum doesn't seem like something to shoot for to me. Most gymnasts more than meet the academic eligibility, but then again most of them don't go 34 hours a week even to obtain a L10 skill level.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I wrote last summer that my DD's previous gym some young girls working out 40 hours each week. Yes, they promised "Olympic gold"... even tho they had NO L10's and had never produced an elite gymnast. Parents can be sooo crazy and overinvolved.

Well, I need to update those hours now. Since school started, they cut them back to THIRTY hours per week.... 3:00 to 9:00 five days per week. These girls are NOT placing in the top at their meets at all. In fact, I just saw a video on youtube of one of them, and her skills are definitely NOT what you'd expect them to be.

So once again.... these crazy hours do nothing to develop these girls except maybe cause burnout. I'm going to be watching them as the season progresses, that's for sure.

 

[gymjoy]

TQM - it just proves that quantity does not equal quality.
That goes for so many things in life, though many people have lost sight of that fact.
I stay away from any restaurant recommended to me on the basis of the large quantity of food the dole out. It usually means they are skimping on quality ingredients or good cooks. Likewise, we should all stay away from gyms promising that more hours will make the best gymnast. They probably are not quality coaches...

 

[Aussie_coach]

Kids do reach a point where they are at the ideal training hours for their age and ability and once they pass that point the increase in hours will actually cause a decrease in ability. I have seen kids progress beautifully on 3 or 4 days a week and then bump it up to 6 days a week and go seriously backwards in their ability.

It is a mistake anyway for a gym to just set hours, eg to say "OK at level XX you need to do XX hours a week". The program needs to have room for flexibility. Most level XX kids will do XX hours, but it not work for all.

Once a gymnasts hours go over 20 hours per week, then the injury rate tends to increase significantly as the body does not have the appropriate recovery time to actually develop the muscles. Yes, many coaches can safely train their gymnasts more hours than this but it takes meticulous physical preparation and once you go over 20 hours the hours need to be increased based on the needs and developments of the individual not of the system in order for training to be safe.

Often when a gymnast over trains they also are unable to correct their mistakes as they don't have time for correction to set in. If you ask them to do a particular skill differently they often will have done it 100 more times incorrectly before they can get their head around the change.

I don't think school is that much of a big issue with these kids though, If you look at top gymnasts from almost any country you usually find excellent grades despite the high number of training hours and low number of school hours. Gymnastics develops the cognitive abilities in the brain significantly and helps them to learn very quickly and easily. Home school works for many of these kids, because kids who make it to high levels in gymnastics are already quite gifted and get very bored with the slow group pace of school, they often learn far better in home school or flexible school systems.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well stated. ^^^

 

[lilgymmie7]

Kids do reach a point where they are at the ideal training hours for their age and ability and once they pass that point the increase in hours will actually cause a decrease in ability. I have seen kids progress beautifully on 3 or 4 days a week and then bump it up to 6 days a week and go seriously backwards in their ability.

It is a mistake anyway for a gym to just set hours, eg to say "OK at level XX you need to do XX hours a week". The program needs to have room for flexibility. Most level XX kids will do XX hours, but it not work for all.

Once a gymnasts hours go over 20 hours per week, then the injury rate tends to increase significantly as the body does not have the appropriate recovery time to actually develop the muscles. Yes, many coaches can safely train their gymnasts more hours than this but it takes meticulous physical preparation and once you go over 20 hours the hours need to be increased based on the needs and developments of the individual not of the system in order for training to be safe.

Often when a gymnast over trains they also are unable to correct their mistakes as they don't have time for correction to set in. If you ask them to do a particular skill differently they often will have done it 100 more times incorrectly before they can get their head around the change.

I don't think school is that much of a big issue with these kids though, If you look at top gymnasts from almost any country you usually find excellent grades despite the high number of training hours and low number of school hours. Gymnastics develops the cognitive abilities in the brain significantly and helps them to learn very quickly and easily. Home school works for many of these kids, because kids who make it to high levels in gymnastics are already quite gifted and get very bored with the slow group pace of school, they often learn far better in home school or flexible school systems.

I agree, very well stated. DD is off today to get tested for the gifted program in our school district. She is a little releuctant, but somewhat curious as what to expect. Please wish her luck. For me, school has to come first. DD loves to learn and that carries over to the gym and all parts of her life.
When I originally posted I did know the answer to this, but part of me thought perhaps I was off-base. I really hope the kids are the ones into the hours and not the coaches or parents. I personally, however, know first hand that these coaches are looking to make a name for themselves. But as far as I know, they have only gone backwards. Oh well!

 

[10.0]

I know for me, I'd reach a point when I was so tired and all my muscles were shaking and nothing productive was going to happen anymore at that workout, and the chance of getting injured was through the roof. Plus the training itself no longer worked, you start just not caring about the little corrections and are just worried about getting through the rest of the workout.