Floor routine woes

[Linsul]

I'm teaching a gymnast a floor routine, the first I've ever done actually, and it is a bumpy road. Wow. She goes to a different gym, and is very talented, but EXTREMELY emotional. She's also the daughter of a good friend of mine. I'm really not sure if I'll be able to pull this off but I'm going to try like crazy.

My biggest obstacle is little mistakes. I think it's totally ok for them to happen, she melts down. I have the routine split up into 4 sections to teach it to her, and I have not seen one done the whole way through. If she notices she forgot to point her toes, she stops and berates herself. I tell her it's not a big deal, just keep going, etc, and in response I get "I know!" Or tears, a break for drink, then she comes back. Rinse and repeat. Her coaches are impossible to get a hold of, and when I talk to her parents about it I get a lot of gym gossip responses that mean little or nothing to me. 'Oh they're mad she's getting her routine done somewhere else' etc. As far as parental help, they tell her she needs to do as she's told and not waste time during the private.

I tell her it's ok to not be perfect right away at something, laugh it off and all that, and she just gets frustrated at hearing it. The core issue is we have 4 hours left together before she's going to compete this routine, and I feel she knows maybe 20% of it and I'm freaking out a little. I had one of our level 10's from my gym perform it and filmed it for my gymnast to watch. She has a copy of it at home that her mom says she watches all the time. I don't really know what to do at this point. If I'm nice about it, tears. I don't even want to find out what would happen if I pushed her.

 

[gymnut29]

What level is she? Is this her first optional routine?

If she is at the optional level I feel like she should be able to handle some pressure or come a meet she will fall apart!

At her next private I would ask her how much of the routine she remembers. She may know more than you think if she is watching the video all the time. Then ask her to show it to you with or without music but she is not allowed to stop, even if her form breaks or she misses a part. (ie competition style, I hope she wouldnt give up in front of the judges!) You can start with the whole routine or the pieces you have set up for her. But from the minute she steps in the gym she needs to understand she cannot stop no matter what. Start there and critque what she shows you giving her corrections or reminding her of parts she left out.

Do her parents stay and watch? Maybe they can talk to her about the crying thing? Do you know if she does this normally during gymnastics practices?

Good luck

 

[gymgurl]

Ok i can't tell you what to do because i don't know her and i have never been in this situation.

first of all there is 4hrs and 4hrs can be productive we created a 4 minute display in about 2hrs including teaching 17 girls so i think its possible you just have to work hard

1. less drink breaks
2. tell her if she doesn't have her routine she can't compete (completely true)
3. tell her right now we can't worry about every little finger and toe being perfectly in place right now you just need to have the routine to the point where you can compete 100% and that's all that matters at the moment.
4. treat every run through as though its the competition and you wouldn't stop in the real comp so you shouldn't stop in practice
5. i think you need to stop worrying and just say it bluntly.

Frankly i think she needs to toughen up and you just need to say look we have 4hrs to learn your whole routine whether you like it our not and to do this you can't stop every time your toe wasn't pointed and if you don't learn it you can't compete so its your choice.

 

[Linsul]

What level is she? Is this her first optional routine?

Yes. She is a level 4 (USAG) and this is for a different idk..league? lol! It's for AGA, and they get to do original routines. Luckily she's awesome with her tumbling. I made her dance pretty easy I think. Bog has seen the video, if she wants to chime in that's fine! The hardest thing in there is a right leg switch leap.

At her next private I would ask her how much of the routine she remembers. She may know more than you think if she is watching the video all the time. Then ask her to show it to you with or without music but she is not allowed to stop, even if her form breaks or she misses a part. (ie competition style, I hope she wouldnt give up in front of the judges!) You can start with the whole routine or the pieces you have set up for her. But from the minute she steps in the gym she needs to understand she cannot stop no matter what. Start there and critque what she shows you giving her corrections or reminding her of parts she left out.

I've asked before for her not to stop, and it's disregarded. I know in competition she has never done that. Honestly I wonder if this emotion is disguising a wide stubborn streak. She may be crying to hide a balk at actually having to dance. I really don't know, but her lack of response to compassion or rather, the I KNOW! response makes me wonder.

Do her parents stay and watch? Maybe they can talk to her about the crying thing? Do you know if she does this normally during gymnastics practices?

Good luck

Her parents normally stay and watch. If she cries she gets lectured by them. They are vigilant, but I don't feel I'm getting the whole story from them regarding her training attitude elsewhere. I mean, I get gossip in response to my direct questions. I'm told they don't stay for regular training, but the next breath they tell me all the stuff they watched her do at practice. I really don't know and it's frustrating. Once they told me she had her middles (they're in her routine and shes an inch off the floor) she came in, her middles were the same, and she bawled. Her parents told me she'd been stretching them 3 times a day for a week outside of gym, and I find that REALLY hard to believe. Being able to speak to her coaches would be awesome.

Thanks for the luck, I'm going to need it!

 

[Linsul]

Ok i can't tell you what to do because i don't know her and i have never been in this situation.

first of all there is 4hrs and 4hrs can be productive we created a 4 minute display in about 2hrs including teaching 17 girls so i think its possible you just have to work hard

1. less drink breaks
2. tell her if she doesn't have her routine she can't compete (completely true)
3. tell her right now we can't worry about every little finger and toe being perfectly in place right now you just need to have the routine to the point where you can compete 100% and that's all that matters at the moment.
4. treat every run through as though its the competition and you wouldn't stop in the real comp so you shouldn't stop in practice
5. i think you need to stop worrying and just say it bluntly.

Frankly i think she needs to toughen up and you just need to say look we have 4hrs to learn your whole routine whether you like it our not and to do this you can't stop every time your toe wasn't pointed and if you don't learn it you can't compete so its your choice.

I have no control over whether she can compete or not, so any threats from me have no teeth. What I'm going to do I think is call her and set up an expectation for our next private. She'll have a week to resign herself to the reality of our next workout and how it's going to be. I'm hoping that this talk being on the phone, without any of the emotional charge of being in the gym, will hit home with her. I agree she needs to toughen up. I do have one last carrot in my arsenal before the stick is brought out though. I'll talk to her parents as well.

I do adore her parents as my friends, but I think I'll have to talk to them too and set a pretext of coach talking, not friend. I don't think I'll EVER do a routine for someone I know outside of the gym again, what a headache!

 

[gymnut1]

I think if she is 10 you can be honest with her. Sit her down and lay it on the line. Nicey aint working!

Is it possible for you to visit or ring her coaches. I know it is awkward at another gym but maybe if you stress you are choreographing not coaching her they might be OK. Surely they will accept you are both there for her you could get on the same page. Knowing some inside info on her training would really be invaluable.

And Good Luck!

 

[gymdog]

I've worked with kids like this. Of course this situation sucks because you're being asked to teach this floor routine and have really limited time with her. My approach is to stay as detached as possible, and repeat, repeat, repeat the expectations in this unemotional way. No, we're going to do this now. It's hard, because you have to be in charge without being "mean" and making her shut down. But you definitely need to project that "in charge" attitude. Does that make sense? Again the best way I have to do this is the above. In this case I would tell her what she is going to accomplish in the immediate short term (like, literally the next task) and then just kind of push her to do it by repeating. Even if she is getting frustrated and starting to have an attitude. Just stay completely unemotional in that moment...do not get worked up yourself. Just keep repeating and encouraging in a normal tone of voice while staying "in charge." This isn't my preference...I'm pretty gentle and encouraging by nature. But once in awhile you need to be a little more direct and project this "get this done" attitude.

The other thing I'd do is probably simplify it even further is significant progress isn't made. Even if it's really simple. If you look at the USAG L4 routine...I've had kids have trouble with that. It's like a sequence of skills with an arm wave at the beginning. sometimes the maturity just isn't there. If you have to, put in some filler bouncing and chasses...it might not look great but what can you do at this point, you know?

 

[Linsul]

I've worked with kids like this. Of course this situation sucks because you're being asked to teach this floor routine and have really limited time with her. My approach is to stay as detached as possible, and repeat, repeat, repeat the expectations in this unemotional way. No, we're going to do this now. It's hard, because you have to be in charge without being "mean" and making her shut down. But you definitely need to project that "in charge" attitude. Does that make sense? Again the best way I have to do this is the above. In this case I would tell her what she is going to accomplish in the immediate short term (like, literally the next task) and then just kind of push her to do it by repeating. Even if she is getting frustrated and starting to have an attitude. Just stay completely unemotional in that moment...do not get worked up yourself. Just keep repeating and encouraging in a normal tone of voice while staying "in charge." This isn't my preference...I'm pretty gentle and encouraging by nature. But once in awhile you need to be a little more direct and project this "get this done" attitude.

Going to try this. I get what you're saying, I've had to do this more often in high level rec class situations than competitive ones surprisingly! My feelings on this are I would have KILLED for this situation myself as a gymnast. I mean, the opportunity to have an original routine so early, the person who cut her music (really awesome btw, I got LUCKY!) and who performed her routine for her??? I'd be on me knees thanking the gymnastics Gods, no lie. This contributes to my total surprise at her attitude. I would have loved to be in her 'situation' as a gymnast.

The other thing I'd do is probably simplify it even further is significant progress isn't made. Even if it's really simple. If you look at the USAG L4 routine...I've had kids have trouble with that. It's like a sequence of skills with an arm wave at the beginning. sometimes the maturity just isn't there. If you have to, put in some filler bouncing and chasses...it might not look great but what can you do at this point, you know?

I really respect your opinions here on the board. If it's alright with you, pm me your email address and I'll show you the routine as performed by our level 10. I have her and her parents permission to show it to any coach I want to and to have it on fb since my profile is on lockdown. I'd appreciate your take on it.

 

[gymdog]

Going to try this. I get what you're saying, I've had to do this more often in high level rec class situations than competitive ones surprisingly! My feelings on this are I would have KILLED for this situation myself as a gymnast. I mean, the opportunity to have an original routine so early, the person who cut her music (really awesome btw, I got LUCKY!) and who performed her routine for her??? I'd be on me knees thanking the gymnastics Gods, no lie. This contributes to my total surprise at her attitude. I would have loved to be in her 'situation' as a gymnast.

I see where you're going with that. Some of the kids I've had issues with erratic reactions or whatnot have mood disorders or other diagnoses...which I can kind of understand due to family history, etc. won't go into too many details. It can be difficult to relate to, in a lot of instances, which can then cause more problems because the kid feels alienated and can't connect with adults. And loses confidence. Just a take on it, I've noticed. This is part of where I feel it's important to stay somewhat detached in the scenario. Sometimes it's not that the child doesn't want it...it's that they have trouble appropriately expressing emotions and frustration.

Another thing you may do to build up her confidence is ask her to perform her favorite part of the routine, or ask her which part she thinks she does best. Then you might be able to use that information, perhaps to present other parts of the routine to her differently. Or give her two or three options for a pose, or ask her to think of a pose to put in an empty space. She may feel more ownership this way, and cut down on some friction. You have to balance this with "being in charge." but I think sometimes more input can be a way to balance that...we're going to get this done...but you can have some ownership over it.

Will pm you the email.

 

[Billy]

Is there a minimum skill requirement for the routine? You may be able to just start throwing out elements that she can't or won't do. Perhaps after enough of "okay, never mind, we're taking that out" she might start to worry about her routine herself. Whether she's balking because she doesn't like the skill/dance or because she really can't do it, maybe she'd begin to worry if you started tossing everything out of the routine and replacing them with nothing poses or whatever. Does that make sense? With any luck, she'll start to try harder to keep the skills and maybe even offer some input to make the routine her own.

 

[Linsul]

I see where you're going with that. Some of the kids I've had issues with erratic reactions or whatnot have mood disorders or other diagnoses...which I can kind of understand due to family history, etc. won't go into too many details. It can be difficult to relate to, in a lot of instances, which can then cause more problems because the kid feels alienated and can't connect with adults. And loses confidence. Just a take on it, I've noticed. This is part of where I feel it's important to stay somewhat detached in the scenario. Sometimes it's not that the child doesn't want it...it's that they have trouble appropriately expressing emotions and frustration.

Another thing you may do to build up her confidence is ask her to perform her favorite part of the routine, or ask her which part she thinks she does best. Then you might be able to use that information, perhaps to present other parts of the routine to her differently. Or give her two or three options for a pose, or ask her to think of a pose to put in an empty space. She may feel more ownership this way, and cut down on some friction. You have to balance this with "being in charge." but I think sometimes more input can be a way to balance that...we're going to get this done...but you can have some ownership over it.

Will pm you the email.

Sent the video! I'll start having her do her favorite parts and whatnot to gauge her issues, if there any, with the routine. Really the whole thing was done with only her in mind, she had a say in the tumbling and the poses at the beginning. In any case it will be good to get her talking!

*ALSO* in the video, Emily finishes on releve, my gymnast will NOT be doing that. Forgot to include it in the email!

Is there a minimum skill requirement for the routine? You may be able to just start throwing out elements that she can't or won't do. Perhaps after enough of "okay, never mind, we're taking that out" she might start to worry about her routine herself. Whether she's balking because she doesn't like the skill/dance or because she really can't do it, maybe she'd begin to worry if you started tossing everything out of the routine and replacing them with nothing poses or whatever. Does that make sense? With any luck, she'll start to try harder to keep the skills and maybe even offer some input to make the routine her own.

She's in danger of doing a fhs+diveroll as one of her tumbling passes already. I'd rather have that than a fhs+ft that she never gets to work on because she balks so hard at dance! I'm scared to change anything really, but then again it's not like she knows that majority of the routine. I'll keep this approach in mind, but we're so down to the wire I don't want to confuse her.

 

[Itstrueimagymnast]

Oh, that really sucks. What I would do is say go through it first without having to worry about ANYTHING except dance. Also, tell her that it is her choice if she wants to do the routine, and if she doesn't that is her own fault. Maybe only allow a few drink breaks during training, and what my coach did with me is do the routine with only leg movements, and then go over the arms or vise versa, I hope this helps! :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

 

[Deleted member D3987]

unfortunately, we must wait for their emotional maturity to catch up to their physical ability. sometimes letting them know that you don't like them gets them back in line. kids like to please and they don't like to be disliked. especially 10 year olds.

 

[mariposa]

Hey Linsul,

Personally, I would sit her down and talk to her personally about how this is just not working. I would tell her the rules, that outbursts like that just aren't necessary and won't be tolerated. To me, at her age, she either WANTS this or she doesn't. Like you said, she should be jumping at the chance. My daughter is only 7, but she already picks out music and moves/skills she wants in her optional routines and she is still in level 4. She would LOVE to not have to do the compulsory routine again this spring to that horrible new music. LOL.

My daughter is very emotional at home, gives up when she can't get stuff right the first time, etc, but not at the gym. She has always tried harder there. If she didn't, I wouldn't pay for it until she was ready. Not saying that kids aren't going to have meltdowns sometimes, bad days, etc, but ALL the time? To me that means they are either A) NOT READY for competitive gymnastics and all it entails or B) don't REALLY WANT to be there. If she was my daughter, I would have already explained to her what a huge favor you were doing for her and that she either gives her all when she is learning the routine or she can just not have a routine.

Good luck finding a way to make this work.