WAG Getting to NATs/NIT from regionals - rant

[bookworm]

why is this so difficult to understand? or am i an imbecile who can't plausibly explain the problem/issue?

It's not difficult to understand Dunno and I totally get what you are saying....sometimes people keep saying stuff just hoping they'll bring people around to their point of view...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

==
Yes that is what I was trying to find out, because he specifically brought up region 2, so naturally to me it sounded like it could be his region. I guess I just don't see legitimate reasons (in my mind) why shifting the regions around would not be beneficial. We really are overloaded out here, and I notice a few other regions are as well....

listen coachp, you don't fully understand the problem. it's complicated. and you can't just redistribute the 'wealth' so to speak by moving state/region areas in to other regions.

take when they were "discussing" moving Illinois over to 4. region 5 has quite a bit going on in their region. and even in that region, 10's are being produced by 2 handfuls of gyms. now, consider their training camps. hotshot, forward progress and high tech. and region 5 is not NEAR as geographically expansive as California. everyone can get to each other to where the these 2 handfuls of gyms are located and to the places where training camps are held in no more than 6 hours no matter where they live.

now put Illinois in 4. now they must travel 9 hours to St. Paul where Byron, Kevin and Mike are. or 14 hours to get by Al. this means they would have to fly to every event to places whose other states within that region are demographically challenged economically and gym wise.

Iowa would be okay. 2 universities with women's gymnastics. but how many gyms with bonified 10's? anything going on in Minnesota is up in St. Paul. Missouri would be okay but aside from Scott (St. Louis) and Al (border of Kansas and Missouri) who else has 10's? Nebraska? all the way to Lincoln. North and South Dakota? forget that...no one from Illinois would go there for ANYTHING unless it was for Nationals. i can say this cause I know all of the coaches personally who coach 10's and i remember what each of them said when moving came up a few years ago. Wisconsin would be great. it's close. but 3 gyms at most have 10's.

and if Illinois were to be moved in to that region, it would knock out a lot of kids that otherwise would have made it. and if you moved a weak state in to a strong region? the same thing would happen. you can't just stick a state like Illinois in to a "great plains region" without some kind of blow back and consequence. Illinois would boycott!

how about Michigan? you think Geddert is going to go to South Dakota for a training camp? or Ruth? or Lori? or any of the handful of gyms that have 10's? NO!

you're lucky coachp. the aggravation in driving your entire state is mitigated by your weather. you don't have to leave your state for good gymnastics and good meets...or even a respite from the winter. you have no idea how lucky you are...

now, if USAG would like to move any of the "winter state regions" in to 1 or 8? i'm sure the booster clubs would be 100% behind the move and the added expense.

hear me Cali and Florida???????????????

 

[Deleted member D3987]

or how about this coachp...since you say you're so overloaded out by you, and i know that you are...region 1 is very competitive....how about we lobby for Cali to be moved to Region 5? want to come to their high tech camp?

that would certainly increase the chances of other kids from Nevada, Arizona and Utah to get to Nationals.

 

[bogwoppit]

Okay gentlemen lets please keep this civil. You can choose to agree to disagree and state your cases. You may not yell at each other or name call.

Educate the membership with facts and they can decide what to do themselves.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Dunno, all sarcasm aside, You mention the word "bonified" and define it as "that means solid level 10's capable of going 36 or more even with a fall." and you mention this, " it doesn't matter what is done. you still only have that many 10's and that many states that have them." Okay that being said,
Here are is what I am concerned about.
Region 1 has 253 level 9's, Region 2 has 111
Region one has 225 10's region 2 has 49
All going for around the same number of spots give or take. It just doesn't workout. We do have some very high caliber 10's who just did not make the cut to NIT. Some of these kids hit high 36's all the way up to mid 37's. They just missed a release or something, they do not get to go. Same thing last year, and next etc...
Similar regions around the country are experiencing the same thing, (but not this bad)
So why wouldn't some type of shift be made?
Dunno, good weather aside, it takes hours and hours to get anywhere around here. lol.
==
I see you your other post,
Region 5 is awesome, and if you put Cali in it, well Dunno, you would end up with the same problem we have currently in region 1, massive numbers. But do you think region 5 would take us??? (joke)

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Okay gentlemen lets please keep this civil. You can choose to agree to disagree and state your cases. You may not yell at each other or name call.

Educate the membership with facts and they can decide what to do themselves.

==
Sorry Bog, dunno put caps in his post and I didn't take it as yelling at all, I just took highlighting a word (making a point etc..) so I did the same with a bunch of sarcasm. Was not meant on my part to be construed as actual yelling.

 

[bogwoppit]

Bona fide - take note.

 

[bogwoppit]

Well everyone is going to be much more polite from now on. There is no reason why anyone has to be right here. You can all state your case and assume that the members are smart enough to decide.

Honestly I believe the system needs rejigging. From an outsiders perspective I have heard nothing yet to convince me of the benefit of a L10 with 9.6 vault and a 36+AA staying home when a L10 scraping in with a 34AA is going. It just is not okay.

 

[gracyomalley]

I do agree that it needs to be looked at - and I'm just a parent so my opinion counts very little and I'm ok with that. However, I do, as a parent, note one thing - if CoachP is correct in the numbers then why does it appear that the ratio of 9/10 in Region 1 is almost 1, but in Region 2 there are less than half as many 10s compared to 9s? I would argue its the lack of coaching/training that is the issue for Region 2....whether you argue that they hit level 9 later and don't have time to get to Level 10 or that the 9s are not as solid in region 2 so don't make to to 10 as consistently. I'd guess the same thing is true in the other smaller more rural regions (DD is just hitting L8 so I haven't figured this out yet). In any case - as a parent I guess I'll just continue to salivate over all the opportunities talented kids get in other regions that my kids don't get....obviously, as gymnastics isn't everything in life we do have advantages to our lifestyle that kids in LA or similar areas don't....don't think I'd take the CA traffic again now that I've seen the "other side"....

I don't want my kid to go to Nationals with a 34 as a consolation prize, by the way....and I suspect those kids don't want it that way either!!!

 

[Gymkateer]

I don't want my kid to go to Nationals with a 34 as a consolation prize, by the way....and I suspect those kids don't want it that way either!!!

Certainly not the ones talking about how happy they are to make it to nationals with a 34.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Two questions,
If 1 of the states from region one goes to region two, will the level of competition be raised or lowered at NAT?
And if the same is done nationwide, will the level of competition be raised or lowered at NAT?

 

[bookworm]

Certainly not the ones talking about how happy they are to make it to nationals with a 34.

And again, I feel the need to point out that the girls in the regions qualifying with 34s aren't breaking any rules or getting "consolation prizes", so I think we should refrain from demeaning them in this manner.....

And before anyone gets all over me, I know that Coachp has many talented girls in his region "sitting home with 37s" but again, it is not the fault of the girl who qualified with a lower score in a weaker region. It is probably an enormous accomplishment for the girl in the weaker region to even get there with the lack of quality coaches that would produce more higher scoring gymnasts...

 

[Gymkateer]

And again, I feel the need to point out that the girls in the regions qualifying with 34s aren't breaking any rules or getting "consolation prizes", so I think we should refrain from demeaning them in this manner.....

And before anyone gets all over me, I know that Coachp has many talented girls in his region "sitting home with 37s" but again, it is not the fault of the girl who qualified with a lower score in a weaker region. It is probably an enormous accomplishment for the girl in the weaker region to even get there with the lack of quality coaches that would produce more higher scoring gymnasts...

I am not demeaning anyone. I was simply stating that those girls are happy to get to nationals despite gracyomalley saying they probably don't want to go to nationals with a 34. Their own words say otherwise.

 

[gymdog]

And again, I feel the need to point out that the girls in the regions qualifying with 34s aren't breaking any rules or getting "consolation prizes", so I think we should refrain from demeaning them in this manner.....

And before anyone gets all over me, I know that Coachp has many talented girls in his region "sitting home with 37s" but again, it is not the fault of the girl who qualified with a lower score in a weaker region. It is probably an enormous accomplishment for the girl in the weaker region to even get there with the lack of quality coaches that would produce more higher scoring gymnasts...

Well, exactly. Maybe it is just as amazing to get to level 10 and score a 34 in some places as it is to be a 10 and score a 37 in some places. Now, don't get me wrong, I know it's a gymnastics competition, but that doesn't take anything from the kids in some remote areas that prevail despite even greater odds in a situation where the odds would be slim even with ideal coaching and facilities. They should be happy to get to nationals, although I'm sure they wish they had greater opportunity to be competitive there.

 

[bookworm]

I am not demeaning anyone. I was simply stating that those girls are happy to get to nationals despite gracyomalley saying they probably don't want to go to nationals with a 34. Their own words say otherwise.

And I'm willing to bet that those saying they wouldn't want their kid to "go to Nationals with a 34" would say otherwise if that opportunity presented itself...who would turn down a trip to JOs because your region as a whole isn't that competitive? It's where you live and just how it is in your region...

And I'll add a disclaimer, my girls have qualified to JOs with well above the minimum so I don't have a dog in this fight....

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Bona fide - take note.

can you believe i typed that...geesh...

 

[bogwoppit]

can you believe i typed that...geesh...

Actually, no. Considering............

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Dunno, all sarcasm aside, You mention the word "bonified" and define it as "that means solid level 10's capable of going 36 or more even with a fall." and you mention this, " it doesn't matter what is done. you still only have that many 10's and that many states that have them." Okay that being said,
Here are is what I am concerned about.
Region 1 has 253 level 9's, Region 2 has 111
Region one has 225 10's region 2 has 49
All going for around the same number of spots give or take. It just doesn't workout. We do have some very high caliber 10's who just did not make the cut to NIT. Some of these kids hit high 36's all the way up to mid 37's. They just missed a release or something, they do not get to go. Same thing last year, and next etc...
Similar regions around the country are experiencing the same thing, (but not this bad)
So why wouldn't some type of shift be made?
Dunno, good weather aside, it takes hours and hours to get anywhere around here. lol.
==
I see you your other post,
Region 5 is awesome, and if you put Cali in it, well Dunno, you would end up with the same problem we have currently in region 1, massive numbers. But do you think region 5 would take us??? (joke)

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i see those numbers. but that's all they have. and that's all they'll have unless their demographics change. let's say you put them in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Hew Hampshire, Vermont, Maine and Delaware and call it Region 9. do you understand that Region 2 kids will still qualify?

and if you go straight up scores, the highest of all the regions, and not having seen all of the returns, i would say that next to none of their kids would qualify. that's the part that i don't think is right. and then there is the politics of Judging.

this is why i would be for a eastern/western national qualifying meet and then take kids from 2 meets.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Well, exactly. Maybe it is just as amazing to get to level 10 and score a 34 in some places as it is to be a 10 and score a 37 in some places. Now, don't get me wrong, I know it's a gymnastics competition, but that doesn't take anything from the kids in some remote areas that prevail despite even greater odds in a situation where the odds would be slim even with ideal coaching and facilities. They should be happy to get to nationals, although I'm sure they wish they had greater opportunity to be competitive there.

yes, that's right! the whole post.