Coaches Good strength exercise for this skill

[AdamSvensson]

Hi

Now i am not sure what the skills/excercise is called in english.

But in our level system we have an skill that alot of our girls have a problem mastering.

You start as you are going to do a beginner forward roll and then press you butt up against the level of your shoulders and the legs is tucked against your stomach. Not sure if you understand what i mean but the skill is pretty much the same as press from support to sitting on the uneven bars.

They can almost do it but i think they missing some strength that makes the small differens to get the back up above shoulder height.

If i don't make sense it might be that i am not so good in gymnastic english and don't know the english terms for it.

 

[pamred4]

Could you maybe find a video of it on YouTube?

 

[AdamSvensson]

Found this one... its about 3.16-3.19

They also have the same the problem with the exercise
In this video:



Its about 1.36-1.39

Think its the same strength

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Not sure what the actual name is, but we call them snail stands, (cause you look like a snail shell doing a little handstand). But this isn't a skill it's a strength exercise for a press. In other words it actually is the strength exercise.

 

[Aero]

I would call the skill in the first video a "tucked planche." The skill in the second video would be a stalder press into a pike stand mount.

 

[AdamSvensson]

I know it is an strength exercise, but its counted as a skill in our levels.
What do you do when kids really can't do it?
I have one gymnast that still can't do it after 2-3 years of trying it.
She can hold her legs tucked in and do a pike/straddle hold on the floor 30s+, but cant press her back up in the air.
She really can't do the second exercise either, where you press to a pikestand from straddle on the beam. I am pretty sure its the same kind of muscle/flexibility that she miss.
She isn't the only one that have problem with the exercise but she's the only that have tried for years and still haven't managed it.

 

[Ponyshine]

I've always called them mushroom holds

 

[iwannacoach]

I know it is an strength exercise, but its counted as a skill in our levels.
What do you do when kids really can't do it?
I have one gymnast that still can't do it after 2-3 years of trying it.
She can hold her legs tucked in and do a pike/straddle hold on the floor 30s+, but cant press her back up in the air.
She really can't do the second exercise either, where you press to a pikestand from straddle on the beam. I am pretty sure its the same kind of muscle/flexibility that she miss.
She isn't the only one that have problem with the exercise but she's the only that have tried for years and still haven't managed it.

Use elastic bands, or therabands, or surgical tubing to provide resistance through, and beyond each end of the motion they use for these skills. You can't work solely on the specific range because your muscles aren't developed as completely when doing a static hold..... like in the planche.

Use the resistance bands by having them stand on the middle of the band with the one end in each hand. They should raise their hands up (with straight arms) from their hips until they've extended as if doing a handstand.

Follow that with the middle of the band anchored or wrapped around an anchor close to the floor. They should stand in a lunge with the anchor point behind them by 1/2 their height. Repeat the same motion as before but with their hands starting from behind them, and finishing when their hands are at chin height.

The last exercise is done with the band anchored at the same height as their hips, and the motion starts with their hands well behind them and finishes at rib height.

Have them do these with a slow motion, in both directions, so they'll have to work through every inch of the movement. The bands should provide enough resistance that they feel the work and tire by the 10th repetition.... so buy lots of length.

 

[BlairBob]

Tuck planche takes some work.

Planche leans (Pushup position, lean shoulders forward over hands like a planche ideally so hands are below ribs). Bent arm frogstand, Straight arm frogstand with knees inside or on back of elbows, tuck planche. Pushups in each of those positions.

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/building-an-olympic-body-through-bodyweight-conditioning/

Obviously you will also need to have them master basic pushups. If they cannot do them on the floor, they can do these with the hands elevated on mats even to the point of standing from a wall, then doing pushups on a high bench/table/chair, then on a mat, pushups on their knees.

Dips are also helpful once they have mastered the ability to do a pushup. Of course, they need to master a basic support hold, shrugs in support, assisted dips or dip negatives.

Another good drill for these are what they call Ag Walks in GymnasticBodies. Get a frisbee, paper plate, furniture slider that they put their toes on while they are in a pushup position. Then they drag themselves across the floor using their arms as their feet slide with them. They are probably called Ag Walks because they are "Aggravating."

As for the Straddle-L presses, these just require building up their L-sit strength and Straddle-L sit and doing spotted presses from these positions. Seated leg lifts in pike or straddle position are useful or can be hold for time (like 5-30 seconds) or reps like 5-30. Or lift and make small circles.


For either strength skill, they need to master the ability to do long extended straight arm planks in either prone or table/crab walk position. Think 60s x 3-5 repetitions. I usually just get a timer and let it go for 30, 60, or 90 seconds and see how much they can do. When I feel EVIL, I stop the clock anytime one gymnast stops the position and don't restart it till they get back into position or I just set it back to zero.

 

[AdamSvensson]

Use elastic bands, or therabands, or surgical tubing to provide resistance through, and beyond each end of the motion they use for these skills. You can't work solely on the specific range because your muscles aren't developed as completely when doing a static hold..... like in the planche.

Use the resistance bands by having them stand on the middle of the band with the one end in each hand. They should raise their hands up (with straight arms) from their hips until they've extended as if doing a handstand.

Follow that with the middle of the band anchored or wrapped around an anchor close to the floor. They should stand in a lunge with the anchor point behind them by 1/2 their height. Repeat the same motion as before but with their hands starting from behind them, and finishing when their hands are at chin height.

The last exercise is done with the band anchored at the same height as their hips, and the motion starts with their hands well behind them and finishes at rib height.

Have them do these with a slow motion, in both directions, so they'll have to work through every inch of the movement. The bands should provide enough resistance that they feel the work and tire by the 10th repetition.... so buy lots of length.

Nice thats what we have started to do. But its nice to get a confirmation that what we do is right. Thank you

 

[AdamSvensson]

Tuck planche takes some work.

Planche leans (Pushup position, lean shoulders forward over hands like a planche ideally so hands are below ribs). Bent arm frogstand, Straight arm frogstand with knees inside or on back of elbows, tuck planche. Pushups in each of those positions.

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/building-an-olympic-body-through-bodyweight-conditioning/

Obviously you will also need to have them master basic pushups. If they cannot do them on the floor, they can do these with the hands elevated on mats even to the point of standing from a wall, then doing pushups on a high bench/table/chair, then on a mat, pushups on their knees.

Dips are also helpful once they have mastered the ability to do a pushup. Of course, they need to master a basic support hold, shrugs in support, assisted dips or dip negatives.

Another good drill for these are what they call Ag Walks in GymnasticBodies. Get a frisbee, paper plate, furniture slider that they put their toes on while they are in a pushup position. Then they drag themselves across the floor using their arms as their feet slide with them. They are probably called Ag Walks because they are "Aggravating."

As for the Straddle-L presses, these just require building up their L-sit strength and Straddle-L sit and doing spotted presses from these positions. Seated leg lifts in pike or straddle position are useful or can be hold for time (like 5-30 seconds) or reps like 5-30. Or lift and make small circles.


For either strength skill, they need to master the ability to do long extended straight arm planks in either prone or table/crab walk position. Think 60s x 3-5 repetitions. I usually just get a timer and let it go for 30, 60, or 90 seconds and see how much they can do. When I feel EVIL, I stop the clock anytime one gymnast stops the position and don't restart it till they get back into position or I just set it back to zero.

Thank you
We have been doing pretty much all these exercises for years and they can do them all pretty good or in the case of this gymnast i posted about. She can do them all without problem. Its just this extra strentgh somewhere in the shoulders she is having problems with. Will work with the tips from Iwannacoach for this girl. But will for sure take notes from you to remember to do these for the new kids.

 

[BlairBob]

There is something to be said about working full ROM movements such as planche pushups with hold inserted. It's something I discussed a lot with Steve Low, the author of OvercomingGravity.

I'm not a really big fan of using bands for movements but using blocks or balls is similar and basically allows me to not have to spot which is difficult to do with big groups of kids.

 

[iwannacoach]

There is something to be said about working full ROM movements such as planche pushups with hold inserted. It's something I discussed a lot with Steve Low, the author of OvercomingGravity.

I'm not a really big fan of using bands for movements but using blocks or balls is similar and basically allows me to not have to spot which is difficult to do with big groups of kids.

I suggested bands because they're convenient and quickly learned to use. My personal preference is dumb bells because they have to be controlled individually while moving through the Rom. The problem with dumb bells is they require diligent use and supervision to yield the desired result.

 

[BlairBob]

Another problem with DB in a Gymnastics gym is expense and the number you would need. Most gyms only have a small amount. You can get away with the number needed if you have small groups but if the entire compulsory levels are there at the same time, good luck.

 

[iwannacoach]

Another problem with DB in a Gymnastics gym is expense and the number you would need. Most gyms only have a small amount. You can get away with the number needed if you have small groups but if the entire compulsory levels are there at the same time, good luck.

There goes that new set of bars we always wanted......

I think you could make it work if you set up separate work stations. Like with 12 kids you'd set up six different stations and have them do one, rest one, do one, rest one.....

or have half the kids work flexibility while the other half does the circuit.

 

[Jenny]

I know it is an strength exercise, but its counted as a skill in our levels.
What do you do when kids really can't do it?
I have one gymnast that still can't do it after 2-3 years of trying it.
She can hold her legs tucked in and do a pike/straddle hold on the floor 30s+, but cant press her back up in the air.
She really can't do the second exercise either, where you press to a pikestand from straddle on the beam. I am pretty sure its the same kind of muscle/flexibility that she miss.
She isn't the only one that have problem with the exercise but she's the only that have tried for years and still haven't managed it.

Aplogies for OT but WOW the little one in those videos. Immaculate form. I am guessing your levels start at 1 and I see her most recent video was level/stage 5. How old would she be. Are these elite levels or do all children follow the same but vary by age? I like that you can see a clear progression of skills on every piece. Do these levels go all the way up to FIG? Thanks.

And we call it a mushroom hold too. It is easier to start doing them on narrow p bars or between 2 benches. Then progress to the end of a bench and then the floor.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Aplogies for OT but WOW the little one in those videos. Immaculate form.

+1. Well done athlete and coaches.

SBG -