Coaches Hand Placement for Cartwheels

[coachmolly]

Just curious, how do you teach gymnasts to place their hands for a cartwheel on the floor? I never really thought about it before until I started working at a new gym that taught hand placement differently, so now I'm curious what methods other coaches use and why that method is preferred.

 

[ryantroop]

Two methods - personally, I don't care. If it's a nice cartwheel and it's trained properly, the hand position is irrelevant.. again.. that's my opinion...

Logical reasoning, however, is that fingers facing same direction - hips align like a pancake stretch on floor.

Hands make a "T" with the far hand turning in towards the first hand, hips turn through the carthweel and allow a stand up.

So - ideally, method 1 is good for boys. Method 2 is good for girls. In practice, it's up to the coach. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Again.. my opinion.. and it may be a lack of understanding of the skill.. but I've never had any complaints or problems letting the gymnast choose which felt better to them. However, before going and applying my philosophy all willy-nilly, if you're not the head coach it isn't your call anyway so make sure whatever you do it's cool with them.

Hope that helps answer your question.


Ryan

 

[gymdog]

Hands turned in is preferable. I am not saying you can't do very good cartwheels without really turning your hands in (obviously turned out is off the table). I slightly turn my second hand, but I don't really turn my first hand, and I have some pretty sweet cartwheels and roundoffs

That said I do think encouraging the first hand turned in has a benefit in class gymnastics when they move to running to cartwheel because if they put their first hand down turned in I feel it is less likely to lead to wrist/lower arm injury which can happen on this skill. Along with being very careful about the progression towards movement into the skill. But I think the hand turn in does encourage them to turn their bodies from the running cartwheel which can be a problem, some kids try to put both hands down at once and don't 1/4 in. Hands facing each other helps a bit.

Like ryantroop, I don't super stress over this issue, but I do keep it in mind. I'm not hold back a kid with otherwise perfect cartwheels because I don't like their degree of hand turn in or something (again, excepting turned out hands - I know as a high level technique this has come in favor for some with the second hand but I would never allow this in the early stages). But again I do think as a practice it is a good idea to turn hands in to avoid elbow locking and falling onto the hand in a way that compromises the wrist.

 

[coachmolly]

Thanks for the input! I also have never particularly stressed over the hand position unless something weird was going on with it that affected the cartwheel. Often I would teach it with fingers facing the same direction, what ryantroop mentioned in his first method. And I certainly plan on going along with HC, I was just curious how others teach them to see if I have been doing them incorrectly all along or have been teaching them some wacky way up until this point.
When I do a cartwheel, my hands are very slightly turned in and I have never had a problem with cartwheels, round offs, or any form of back tumbling out of a round off, so it has obviously worked out okay for me. The HC at this gym wants fingers all the way turned in so they are "looking" at each other. It feels really awkward to me, probably because I have never done it that way, and I was curious about the reasoning behind it. I don't doubt the technique, I've just never seen it taught that way before.

 

[ryantroop]

Thanks for the input! I also have never particularly stressed over the hand position unless something weird was going on with it that affected the cartwheel. Often I would teach it with fingers facing the same direction, what ryantroop mentioned in his first method. And I certainly plan on going along with HC, I was just curious how others teach them to see if I have been doing them incorrectly all along or have been teaching them some wacky way up until this point.
When I do a cartwheel, my hands are very slightly turned in and I have never had a problem with cartwheels, round offs, or any form of back tumbling out of a round off, so it has obviously worked out okay for me. The HC at this gym wants fingers all the way turned in so they are "looking" at each other. It feels really awkward to me, probably because I have never done it that way, and I was curious about the reasoning behind it. I don't doubt the technique, I've just never seen it taught that way before.

It makes sense.. a cartwheel is simply a moving handstand. By forcing the fingers to face each other you are ensuring a complete 1/4-1/2 turn motion.

I agree, it would feel awkward.. not my preferred method. But.. as above.. if it isn't broke...

 

[gymdog]

I think turning the hands all the way is weird. Slight turn in is natural, all the way is weird. I think it makes it harder to 1/4 in actually if you don't know what you're doing because now your fingers are kind of pointed from your foot on the first hand as they would be for a handstand, it would tempting for a beginner to put the other hand down next to rather than in a line. But I've never tried teaching it this way so maybe that isn't true.

 

[BlairBob]

I teach side cartwheel first. Always, boys or girls don't matter. Preferably fingers face in or to some degree.

Eventually I teach side cartwheel to landing in a forward lunge. Emphasis on the side lunge entry.

I never teach running cartwheel, ever or running RO. I allow a step hurdle or power hurdle. It hides errors in beginning gymnasts/tumblers besides typically generating more power than they can control and wastes time and space (from having to run so far to just do a cartwheel or round-off. 3 steps is acceptable for doing RO-BHS on FX.

Then I teach a front lunge cartwheel to rear lunge. Here is where things get interesting.

You can teach that the first hand is sideways and the second hand is at first. Then the second hand will "T" either on the line or slightly off the line. I prefer off the line for floor but on the line for beam.

Another method is to teach the first hand to have fingertips pointed forward so the entry is like a FHS and the chest is square. This way you don't have gymnasts throwing their torsos out to the side as they CW. The second hand will be placed sideways.

In due time, they will learn to place the front hand sideways without turning out their chest and T-ing the second hand.

Of course there are more cartwheel progressions like one handed, cartwheel step in/through, cartwheel run-back, cartwheel from a knee. Typically it's from a side lunge or forward lunge. Eventually I will let them step into the lunge vs starting from a lunge.

 

[gymnut1]

I love your input bob. Thanks. Interesting.

 

[BlairBob]

Personally, I learned CW/RO with the first turned to side and second hand T-ing with no problems; but I started when I was 20+ and OCD about finite corrections. Most kids are not this way and often they will break all sorts of angles in their shoulder and turn that torso to the side and it will become a mess.

Thus, placing the first hand down like a FHS encourages a square torso entry so they don't turn it out to the side. I find it kind of funky but some coaches like it that way.

I did ask my friend who is a master's in Biomechanics and it was his opinion that the first hand forward was a good tool but using T-hands with the first hand to the side and the second hand facing the original direction allows for more turnover.

Other than him, the next person I'd ask is probably Bill Sands, the biomechanics guru for USAG, basically since forever.