Women help....xcel/jo/gym switch

[momof2gymmies]

This may get long, and I have way over thought this, but I honestly do not know what to do. I have 2 DD's who compete xcel. 8 year old bronze DD, and 10 year old silver DD. At our gym, xcel is competitive - kids are expected to compete the max routines. 8 yo DD is talented - she does not put a lot of effort into gym, loves being on team b/c it is fun, and enjoys the time there. However she can be a bit mouthy, can cop an attitude, and is as stubborn as a mule. She made JO L 4 last year, but we decided to have her do xcel b/c I didn't want to spend the money if she was her usual fickle self. She has ended up loving gym, and would like to switch to JO. Gym says fine, she can do L4.

10 tear old DD was never given the chance to do JO. She made team at 9 and was deemed to old. She went to tryouts for JO this year. Again was told no, that even though she has L5 skills she is too old. She has her kip, flyaway, free hip on bars, competes a bwo and full turn on beam with a back tuck dismount, competes a robhsbt on floor. Head coach/owner is never going to change her mind and let ODD compete JO. She may not be the most talented kiddo out there, but she has passion and determination. She says she is more than willing to compete L4, even though in many ways it is going backwards in skill. She understands that she would need to perfect every small movement. She understands that he sister will most likely be better than her. But head coach is not budging. In ODD's words :who cares if I am the oldest L4 in the world".

I got frustrated after talking with them yesterday, and called another gym. I am waiting for them to call me back, and I am almost 100% certain that they will say the same thing as current gym. They are huge rivals - won't even compete at the same meets - there may be a slight chance that they will let her.

New gym has a much smaller program, although they do turn out plenty of higher level kids who score well. I have heard some not so nice things about them from parents who have switched to current gym, but by the same token I am sure that there are parents who have said not nice things about current gym.

I KNOW if we go to other gym then that is it for us at our gym. ODD says if she can't do JO then she would rather stay where she is with her friends. The xcel program is fine at our gym. They do push the kids although there are some things that make me cranky. If we go and look at other gym it will get back. Probably will anyway since I had to leave my name and number.

Any advice?

 

[MeetDirector]

What are thier gymnastics goals? If college gym is a desire, you need to go to a JO program. No competetive college program will take an Xcel gymnast; they want multi-year level 10s.

Good Luck

 

[momof2gymmies]

Thanks. Both would like to go as far as they can, although I know with ODD that realistically college gym is not going to happen. If she did manage to move over she would not have the multi years at L10. She is too old at this point.

I guess my question more was is it even worth it to look at the other gym.? YDD could do JO at our current gym. If ODD is too old at new gym as well, and only gets offered xcel, then we would have made a mistake moving since she can do JO at our current gym.

 

[IreneKa]

10 year old is too old for level 5?? No way! My DD was a 10 yo level 4 this season, and she was right in middle, usually in the biggest age group.
If she really wants it, go for it!

 

[momof2gymmies]

10 year old is too old for level 5?? No way! My DD was a 10 yo level 4 this season, and she was right in middle, usually in the biggest age group.
If she really wants it, go for it!

I think they are saying that she is too old for L4, since she would have to compete that and they will not allow her to do just one meet and score out, so she would be there for a whole year. Which is fine with her.

I'm just afraid that the new gym is going to say the same thing and then we are going to be stuck with old gym mad and asking her to leave and new gym only offering xcel as well.

 

[ollieblueeyes]

Maybe look online and see what age groups are represented in the new gyms scores? If you see a fair amount of 10 yr old LVL 4s, that could be a good indicator that they would work w/your DD.

BTW. My DD completed LVL 4 as a 12 year old and LVL 5 as 13....She will likely compete 6,maybe 7 depending on skill progression over the summer. Your ODD is not too old for anything.

 

[IreneKa]

I think they are saying that she is too old for L4, since she would have to compete that and they will not allow her to do just one meet and score out, so she would be there for a whole year. Which is fine with her.

I'm just afraid that the new gym is going to say the same thing and then we are going to be stuck with old gym mad and asking her to leave and new gym only offering xcel as well.

Not too old for level 4 either in most gyms. Are those the only two options in the area?

 

[tuckfull]

Why won't they let her do one meet to score out of Level 4, then move her to 5? Our gym typically doesn't do score out meets either but they have made exceptions. They had an Xcel gymnast who was around 13 yo do score out of Level 4 and 5 at one meet each, she's a a successful Level 7 now. She had drive and the skills, and I'm guessing it was pretty easy to just add her to the comp schedule with the 4s and 5s at their first meets.

 

[gymmomtoo]

How much does your ODD want to do JO? Is it just because YDD will be doing it? If it's really a passion of hers, then check out the other gym--can you find out by looking at mymeetscores or elsewhere and seeing if their level 4s or 5s are young or if they have older ones too?

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Different teams/gyms/areas have different philosophies. Not saying that any philosophy is more right than another....but it isn't the first time we have read here on CB that for some gyms, in some areas, there is indeed a very low age cap on JO levels and if your kid misses the boat so to speak, then she is pigeon holed into Xcel. It wouldn't be the case at our gym or in our area in general, but it's a reality in some areas....

OP, if you do think that the other gym may have the same philosophy and your ODD would still not be allowed on JO team, I would likely just stay put. You say your DDs are both being challenged and for the most part happy with their gymnastics. It sounds like your ODD is saying she would rather keep doing Xcel with her friends than try to push it going elsewhere, perhaps still end up with the same result but now without her friends, is that about right..? If your YDD is likely to be able to transition into L4 at either gym, then I don't know that I would rock the boat IF you are satisfied with the coaching and gym in general. Gyms do talk, and yes, they generally let the other gym know when one of their team members are "shopping around". If it gets brought up, I would simply state the honest truth that you wanted to explore what other options might be available but (presuming you stay) that the (insert positive remark about your current gym/coaches here) outweighs whatever the other gym had to offer.
Best of luck to both your DDs on their path!

 

[momof2gymmies]

So I had a long talk with the other gym, and yes, she is basically too old for them as well. She said her oldest L3 was 7, oldest L4 was 8, and oldest L5 was 9. Grrrr. She did say that the girls could come and try out, but unless she sees something amazing with ODD, it really is not worth it. So I guess we stay put. There are no other gyms that offer JO that I know of closer than 90 minutes away with no traffic. Current gym is 40 minutes away, and have kids traveling from further than we do. There are plenty of gyms that offer xcel, but if DD stays xcel then she might as well stay where she is. For the most part I like our gym. Of course there are things that make me crazy, and communication is non existent at best, but I suspect those things would happen where ever we are.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I cannot stand this!!! Assuming these two competitive gyms are similar to hours in my state, that means they are saying no to kids who are not Level 5 by age 9. Most kids who are age 9 in the fall are in THIRD OR FOURTH GRADE!!!! So unless a kid is putting in 16 hours a week by third or fourth grade they are just too old to be given the chance to acheive their potential in this sport according to these gyms?

Ridiculous. Just ridiculous. There is a lot of talk on here about delusional parents. How about delusional gyms who are gearing their whole JO for future elite, or at the very least that all of them should be on the type of track in terms of age to receive a Division 1 College scholarship and driving the sport to mean that they have to be level 9/10 by age 13? 8 year olds do NOT choose on their own to be in a gym 16 hours a week, coaches and parents play an enormous part in that.

I am choking on my coffee reading this thread. This pressure pressure pressure for more and more and more hours for kids still in elementary school is crazy. I won't even get started on what that means for tiny bodies and children.

If I were you I would talk to gym three. Gyms one and two do this because they can. It's easier to coach the tiny pre-puberty kids and if parents are lining up outside the door to get their kids in there, well..... there you go. Sigh. Despite their impressive performance and discipline in the gym, children are children. Gymnastics does not speed up brain development by five years, despite some people who seem to claim the contrary with straight faces. And it is all going to be over by age 22 at the very latest. The main goal is to provide kids with experiences that make them wonderful, kind, productive adults. That should be the compass helping us blaze our trail. There really are not 1,000 kids out there in third grade this year with the potential to be elite gymnasts. And even those that are, well most of them will quit or get injured.

I have a relative who just acheived "elite" status (national level) in her sport as an ancient, over the hill high school kid! And not a ninth grader, by the way. And I am super proud of them, and I am not against elite training in sports. But there is a point when we all need to be cautious of jumping on the crazy train and dragging a bunch of teeny tinies along for the ride.

 

[SignHere]

Will gym 2 do a private tryout with older DD alone?

 

[Aero]

Honestly, both of these gyms are terribly stupid. The mere fact they won't even compete at the same meets should tell you that the gym owners are like little children holding grudges. It's laughable. I do not care if they churn out high level optionals, if they're denying kids 10 years old from level 4, they are running their businesses wrong. They're essentially denying more than half of their possible clientele!

I suppose staying at your current gym would be the best course of action if there are no other gyms in the area. However, if a third option existed aside from these two gyms, that gym would literally be able to gain a significant profit on all the kids that are "too old" according to these two gyms. It's not always about fielding the best athletes only for a team. Learn how to run a business! What a joke.

 

[stxrdusty]

I competed old level 6 at 12 and if I hadn't become injured would've competed level 9 for 3 years or possibly move to level 10 for a year, so your daughter is by no means "too old". No matter what either of them end up doing with gymnastics, NAIGC is an option in college.

Neither of these gyms are running their programs very well in my opinion for the reasons many others have described above. If you have any other options I'd suggest looking into them.

 

[Gymmamabear]

This sounds INSANE to me! My daughter is a level 5 and almost the entire team is in 4th grade! Either 10 or turning 10 this summer. A few younger and MORE than a few older (up to age 13). I cannot believe the minimum age requirement. It seems ridiculously young!

 

[CoachMeg]

I hate head coaches like these. No, your 10 year old daughter is NOT too old for level 5, level 4, or even level 3. Now will your daughter be going to the olympics? Probably not. (But neither will 99% of gymnasts). But just because she's not a 10 year old level 10 does not mean she should be deprived the chance to be a competitive gymnast. We have gyms in my area who share this philosophy, although not quite this extreme. Even our ex-HC would always tell me, the pre-team and compulsory director, to "look for those hot-shot little 6 and 7 year olds...try not to add anyone over age 10 into our pre-team". I shook my head but of course didn't listen to him. If I would have listened to him, we wouldn't have had our beautiful 13 year old level 4 State beam and floor CHAMPION! And no, she didn't win because she was in the oldest age group and the scores were lower and therefore it was easier to place...she scored a 9.75 on beam and was the top beam scorer out of EVERY age group. 1st place in the entire STATE!

Some coaches, like yours, have this egotistical philosophy where basically they just want to make a name for themselves. They only want kids on their team if they have a chance of amounting to something "great"...aka level 10, elite, college, etc. If they see an "older kid" (because in the gymnastics world, a 5th grader is considered old...HA!) they feel like they don't need to spend their time on this athlete because what's the point, right?? It's not like they'll make it past level 7 or 8. Now of course they're never going to say this to a parent, they'll sugar coat it and say "your daughter is just too old and we don't want her to feel unconfident when she goes to a meet and she's the oldest one". I don't know what city, state, or even planet your gym is from but here in the Midwest there are PLENTY of 9-12 year old compulsories.

Please do not let these coaches make your daughter feel unworthy of competitive gymnastics. There are many, many gyms that would love to have her in their JO program.

 

[munchkin3]

we had a 14 yo L3 on our team.......YES I SAID IT!!!!
14!!!!

she was wonderful and the little girls loved her.....she left the sport with nothing but love and happiness and gymnastics helped her with her other sports....

SO WHAT!!!

i dont know why gyms stifle kids.....it does not make business sense.

BUT 10??? OMG what is this world coming to..................

 

[kimute]

Our L4 team has 25 girls who range from 9 to 13. 10/11 on average!

 

[flippinam]

At our gym, if you're not in the advanced mommy and me classes by age one, JO team is out of the question.
In all seriousness, nothing is more frustrating to me than hearing about coaches who refuse to give "older" gymnasts a chance. Older is in quotes because a ten year old level 5 is still very young!
I am thankful every day that I was given the chance to compete old level 4 JO at almost age 13. Was I talented? Definitely not. Did I love gymnastics? Absolutely. At age 17, as a level 7, I'm still enjoying it more than ever.
That coach is seriously crazy! Your DD is definitely not too old. That is extremely unfair for them to cast her aside like that. Nobody who has the determination should be turned away.