WAG High School Gymnastics

[Muddlethru]

Does anyone know the difference between high school gymnastics and USAG/JO? Is scoring Scoring and skill requirements pretty similar? Are the judges pretty much the same judges as in USAG meets? I believe HS gymnasts are suppose to compete their current JO level. And I was told they are scored based on JO L9. But I've seen many HS gymnast score pretty high at high school meets and then score pretty low at regular USAG meets. Do they water down their routines for HS or is scoring just lenient, or do these gymnasts seem to perform better at a HS gymnastics setting? We don't have any intention of doing HS gymnastics but it certainly has its appeal--being featured in newspaper articles, higher scores, and there is more concentration on being part of a team.

 

[MaryA]

I think it is really different. I went to a couple of high school meets. I believe that the scores "count up" instead of down, if that makes sense. For each skill you do, you gain points, rather than starting with a 10 (or whatever your SV is) and then losing points from that score.

DD's previous YMCA team seemed to be a "feeder" program for the local high school team. Now that she's at a private gym it is harder to see her going that route, though I, like you, think it could be a great experience. Club gym is pretty isolated. Pretty much only family members and other team members come to the meets or care about the results. It would be great to have your name read on the announcements in the morning, "letter" in gymnastics, or whatever. My main concern with our HS team was that their equipment seemed to be held together with bubble gum and duct tape. The local high school has gotten a spring floor since the last time I saw them compete, but I don't think they set it up for every practice (can you imagine?) and I don't know if every school they compete against has a spring floor. But I'm sure that, if you live in an area where HS gymnastics is a bigger deal, the teams would be better equipped.

 

[bookworm]

High school is SO different from JO...girls who barely squeak into L8 or 9 States/Regionals are State Champions and rock stars in the High School arena..and it's actually nice for them because it's not going to be like that for them in JO. It is supposed to be judged on L9 rules but there's a lot of different bonus and combos so you will see really high scores in HS that you won't see in JO , and the gymnast does the same routines.

 

[MaryA]

Wow... I don't think it's level 9 rules where I am. Most of our HS team is made up of gymnasts with level 6/7 skills, at most, and they do very well.

 

[KnowNuthin]

My oldest daughter is currently doing HS gymnastics... I do believe the scoring values are based off of JO L9, e.g. a handspring vault has a SV of 8.6 (if I recall correctly).

It's been interesting to watch the meets. You have kids coming in at all different abilities and some of the schools hosting meets don't even have spring floors (at least in our location).

As far as the judging is concerned (and I'll admit that I'm biased) it seems that it's more relaxed than in JO. One of the girls that's on the HS team was a former L9 who generally scored in the (mid-high) 36s when she was doing JO at my younger daughter's club. She was much higher on average in HS, even hitting the 38s.

My other observation (at least where I am) is that the coaching is a lot worse than in JO, too. Here a HS coach is paid less than a club coach and is only employed during the HS gymnastics season... Basically, if you're a talented coach there's not much incentive to coach at a high school (other than some special passion).

 

[Deleted member D3987]

high school=easier

 

[gymnastbeth]

In my area, the high school teams generally rent out space in local gyms. I do high school gymnastics, the range of skills on the team is huge. I'm level 9, and my routines are definitely "watered down" and compositionally a little different from my club routines to fulfill different requirements. The scoring is technically "level 9 rules", but girls compete level 6/7 skills and score in the 8's, as long as the routines are clean. Generally the judges are pretty lenient at the in-season meets, but at sectionals/states, the judges are a lot tougher, scores can be a LOT lower. That being said, the judges at the in-season meets are usually judges that I know or recognize from USAG meets-they just score a little easier at the high school meets.

I LOVE high school gymnastics, I'm captain this year, this is my senior year, and I have no regrets about joining the team 4 years ago. It's so much more team-oriented, and an entirely different experience from club. I definitely think I could have gone further in club if I hadn't done high school, as I missed a lot of club practices for high school events over the years. However, I still have no regrets about it.

 

[chalkbowl]

HS rules vary by state. New York uses "modified" level 9 rules from what I understand. Judges who receive their level 7/8 rating need to buy the HS Rule book and then take & pass a take home test in order to be qualified to judge HS meets.

 

[Optionals United]

I did high school gym for the first time last year and it is way different. In my area the equipment is decent. Some schools equipment is better than others so they usually host a majority of the meets. no spring floor at any school.

I believe ours is based off USAG level 9. ex. vault you need a tsuk lay for 10SV. bars you need a release(toe hect shootover,) not necessarily high to low. beam i think you need some sort of flip or flight.. and floor you have to have at least a 1/2. the requirements are VERY different. you have to have a certain number of basic, superior, high superior skills. for beam a basic skill would be a split or tuck jump. and a high superior would be a bhs or back tuck. then you have to have certain connections that are required. then there are other connection bonuses like superior + high superior. That is why you often see weird skills together or its part of a requirement. it is all very confusing. like MaryA said, they add up at the requirements you have to get a SV. i think mine were like 9.7s last year because i couldn't meet some of the requirements.

For judging it is the USAG judges from my area and it's fun to see them in a different setting, more relaxed, personalities, etc. Compulsories are generally scored higher usually +.2. So scored like 9.7s are winning events. that would be compared to a 9.5 USAG routine. For optionals i found our scores lower for what we were required to do. They are kind of obscure and hard to meet so SVs would be lower. therefor lower scores would be The competition also greatly depends on the girls competing. We had like 8/20 USAG or exUSAG girls at CIF this year. these girls would often score higher creating a huge gap on the podium. At one of my meets there were only 3USAG/6 girls and I got 2nd on beam with a 7.1. so it just depends.

I really enjoyed the experience and hope to do it again this year if it doesn't clash with my season (states regionals etc) they are actually trying to change the dates of high school season so more USAG girls can participate. The team aspect is way different than USAG and I love it. I got to know a lot of people from my school that I wouldn't otherwise have. Also my team didn't have a lot of drama that I could see happening. It gave me a chance to step back and do well/boost my confidence after a horrible first year of level 9. I was given the chance to fall in love with the sport again that has helped me continue with it thorough this season. I loved being able to represent my school and do well them. As well as get my letter for my jacket Overall I think it's a very good option for me and a lot of gymnasts if you're not on the college track or level 10 w/ tons of hours. WOW that was long hopefully it answered all your questions.

 

[coachmolly]

I am a HS coach in my state, but it varies from place to place. Where I am the kids who do well are largely mid-range USAG level 9s (current or former) with a few lower scoring level 10s. They look like superstars. Girls with solid level 7/8 routines, or who can work the HS code to their advantage (lots of twisting jumps on FX/BB) and from less competitive regions can qualify to states where I am- but it is very much dominated by optional level club gymnasts at the state level. Locally, depending on where you are, girls with level 5-7 skills can place well. Girls who are currently competing USAG often don't compete at all high school meets which evens out the playing field a bit earlier on in the season.
Scoring can seem more lenient based upon the amount of bonuses girls are able to get, but around here it's pretty common to see scores in the 4s or lower, especially for kids who aren't coming from a club background.
Judges are often USAG, but exceptions can be made for areas with fewer judges, especially since USAG and HS seasons overlap. It's also a bit easier to "work the code." So very easy tumbling and a bunch of twisting jumps on floor can get up to a 10 SV with no glaring deductions for being up to the level of competition.
Coaches are hard to come by because pay is bad and facilities are usually less than ideal. It's also hard to split time between HS and USAG programs. I'm just doing it because I don't have other options. It's a good option for club kids who want to be involved in a school sport or have a chance to really shine, especially if they aren't a consistently top scorer in club, or are burnt out from years in club and want to still compete. And like gymnastbeth said, there is the added bonus of the team atmosphere. So it's a great option to have and a great experience for lots of kids, but not a substitute for USAG or a place to progress in club terms.

 

[kandkfunk]

I really, really wish our state had HS gymnastics. My daughter would love to compete for her high school and get some of the same recognition that her peers in other sports get. Club gymnastics is just so obscure and the general population really has no idea what it really is beyond what they see in the Olympics every four years. Our neighboring state (which is literally across a river and 15 minutes away) still has HS gymnastics and it can be a pretty big deal for those girls.

 

[raenndrops]

I know that there are some schools that will allow girls with Old L4 skills to be on their teams (even lower if they don't get 12 girls with @ least that skill level)... but that doesn't guarantee that they will compete in the meets.
Ohio GENERAL RULES (Basically L8 USAG)
-All OHSAA policies, rules and regulations shall be followed.
-Regulations and rules for competition are based on the Junior Olympic Code of Points, The Women’s Program Rules and Policies and a modified USAG Level 8-9-10 Program. Requirements and restrictions will be as published in this handbook. The OHSAA will allow the performance of any “C” “D” or “E” elements. All “C”, “D” and E elements will receive value part credit and will be eligible to fulfill special requirements for Bars, Beam and Floor Exercise. “E” elements will receive 0.20 difficulty value.
-It is recommended that no gymnast scores lower than 3.0.
Event Requirements
Vault:
The OHSAA has adopted the USAG Level 9 Vault Table with OHSAA modifications.
Bars:
1. Value Part Requirements: 4 “A’s” @0.10 each, 4 “B’s” @0.30 each, 0 “C” Basic Start Value - 9.7 points
2. Additive Value for Connection Value or allowable Difficulty Value = maximum 0.30 point. Maximum start value = 10.0.
3. All “B”, “C”,“D” and “E” elements are allowed.
4. Special Requirements (4 at 0.20 each) – Refer to the JO Code of Points – Level 8 Requirements
a. 1 Bar Change
b. One “B” flight element (not the dismount) or one “B” element with a direction change (not the mount or dismount)
c. A minimum of one “B” element from Groups 3, 6 or 7 – same or different
d. Minimum of “A” dismount (no dismount = -.30 deduction taken from the start value.
5. The following skills may be used in OHSAA girls gymnastics competition only with no value part.
a. Glide, single leg stoop through to stride support on low bar
b. Single leg circle forward or backward (stride circle)
c. Single leg basket swing with straight legs to finish in stride support or single leg rear lying hang (catching high bar)
d. Low bar pullover mount
e. Stem rise (from hang on HB or rear lying hang to outer front support on HB)
f. Counterswing (in hang on HB) forward and back to stand or squat stand on low bar
g. Front support on low bar, underswing to stand; also with 1/2 turn or full turn (less than “A”, may be considered a dismount) {-.20 for no “A”, but not -.30 for having no dismount}
h. Horizontal cast will be allowed for counting skills, but appropriate deductions will be taken.
i. Low bar underswing dismount
j. From standing on the low bar, jump and pull over the high bar
Beam:
1. Value Part Requirements: 4 “A’s” @0.10 each, 4 “B’s” @0.30 each 0 “C”
2. Basic Start Value - 9.7 points
3. Additive Value for Connection Value or allowable Difficulty Value = maximum 0.30 point. Maximum start value = 10.0 points; Value Parts of “A”, “B”, “C”,“D” and “E” elements are allowed.
4. Special Requirements (4 at 0.20 each) – Refer to JO Code of Points- Level 8
a . Acro series of 2 or more elements only one of which must have flight
b. One leap or jump requiring a 180º split
c. Minimum of 1/1 (360º) turn or more on one foot
d. Minimum of “A” dismount – aerial or salto is required; no dismount = -0.3 deduction taken from the start value
Floor:
1. Value Part Requirements: 4 “A’s” @0.10 each, 4 “B’s” @0.30 each , 0 “C”
2. Basic Start Value - 9.7 points
3. Additive Value for Connection Value or allowable Difficulty Value = maximum 0.30 point. Value Parts of “A”, “B”, “C”, “D” and “E” elements are allowed. Maximum start value = 10.0.
4. Special Requirements (4 at 0.20 each) Refer to JO Code of Points – Level 8
a. Acro series with 2 saltos or 2 directly connected saltos (the saltos may be the same or different)
b. Three different saltos within the exercise
c. Dance passage with two different elements from Group 1 (directly or indirectly connected) – one a leap with 180 degrees cross or side split
d. Minimum of “A” salto performed as last isolated salto or in the last salto connection
5. Lack of minimum of “B” salto -.30

 

[MaryA]

Maybe some of the current high school gymnasts/coaches can tell me... how anyone can do higher-level tumbling without a spring floor? And if some competitions have a spring floor and some don't, do you do different tumbling passes accordingly, assuming you have a spring floor to practice on at your gym?

 

[2G1B]

Maybe some of the current high school gymnasts/coaches can tell me... how anyone can do higher-level tumbling without a spring floor? And if some competitions have a spring floor and some don't, do you do different tumbling passes accordingly, assuming you have a spring floor to practice on at your gym?

I too was really wondering how they could do some of the tumbling with no spring floor!

 

[Optionals United]

Maybe some of the current high school gymnasts/coaches can tell me... how anyone can do higher-level tumbling without a spring floor? And if some competitions have a spring floor and some don't, do you do different tumbling passes accordingly, assuming you have a spring floor to practice on at your gym?

It is a totally different feeling but you adjust. Over time you learn how to tumble and use it to your advantage. It is quite hard on the body, but you get used to it. It is kind of like tumble trak vs spring floor. you change the way your tumble to use it to its full potential. I only competed a full and a layout, but one of my old teammates competed a double floor. on a non spring floor. I have no clue how she does it..haha. In my area there are no spring floors at any of the meets.

 

[bookworm]

Maybe some of the current high school gymnasts/coaches can tell me... how anyone can do higher-level tumbling without a spring floor? And if some competitions have a spring floor and some don't, do you do different tumbling passes accordingly, assuming you have a spring floor to practice on at your gym?

Our team girls were never "allowed" to do high school gymnastics and this was one of the reasons cited by the coaching staff...equipment that wasn't up to par with their gymnastics...they feared the girls would get injured...or as I used to say "they feared they would like it better"

 

[GymBee97]

this is DD's 3rd year on the high school team. I am told they get Judged using L9 criteria somehow but you don't need to be L9 or doing a L9 routine. That seems to be the standard. Our school doesn't have a spring floor just mats on the floor - and yes they do change their routines if a spring floor isn't available. The judges are the same ones that judge USAG meets for DD.

There is a big difference I think between USAG and High School. DD says its more fun as it is more Team Focused instead of individual events. And you can be a top gymnast easier.

 

[coachmolly]

For good tumblers on a spring floor, meaning they know how to use their body to get proper lift, set, and rotation rather than relying completely on the spring floor- they can usually manage pretty good tumbling on the HS floor which is just the foam padding that goes on top of spring floors. But without the added help of the springs, it is harder to do higher level tumbling skills and especially difficult to do rebounding passes. It is harder on the body, especially for kids with pre-existing injuries, so I can see why club coaches would tell their top club kids to steer clear or water down their routines quite a bit, particularly those who are a bit more injury prone.
On our team, most of our top floor workers come from a competitive cheer background where non-spring floors is all they know, so it's not too much of a barrier for them. But the combination of their less than great tumbling technique and abundance of low/awkward landings makes me cringe frequently.

 

[gymnastbeth]

Maybe some of the current high school gymnasts/coaches can tell me... how anyone can do higher-level tumbling without a spring floor? And if some competitions have a spring floor and some don't, do you do different tumbling passes accordingly, assuming you have a spring floor to practice on at your gym?

At most of our meets there are spring floors, but the few that are hosted in high schools usually have a cheerleading floor. In those cases we either water down our routines, or just have the girls with cheerleading experience compete floor. I think last season I changed my passes from 1 1/2 to just a full, and replaced a FHS layout with a FHS front tuck into dive forward roll (to fulfill a difficulty requirement the dive roll had to be added?). Honestly even though it felt a lot different, it wasn't too hard to adjust to the new floor. We got plenty of time to warm up on it.

It would definitely be hard if we never got to practice on a spring floor, but we are lucky and only have that happen once or twice per season.

 

[fliptwisttwirl]

I compete high school gymnastics (in Texas) with modified level 8 rules. No restrictions on C's or D's like USAG. I definitely prefer club practice and completions over high school. I do high school as kind of an obligation. I am the only girl on my high school team that competes club as well. HS gym is not as serious as club which is what I don't like about it. Nice that it's free for those that aren't doing club still as well. A lot of differences. High school state is dominated by level 9's and 10's that are competing "easy and clean" level 8 routines.