How common is it to repeat L4 and/or L5?

[Natasha]

I know it is common to repeat L4 and/or L5. I am working on putting together some information for our parents. Does anyone have approximate % rates for repeating these levels? Or, if your state separates out "new" from "2nd year" competitors, do you know numbers for the groups? Thanks!

 

[gymgirl1129]

I repeated every level a second year, from level 4-7 and i'm gonna have 3 years on level 8. Many of the girls at my gym repeat a year for compulsaries. I liked repeating a year plus I knew that I wasn't going to go elite or anything like that. I know there are mandating scores for second years only and first year girls can move up if the coaches think it will be ok for them and they will do ok. Hope that helped.

 

[vagymmomma]

I have limited experience, but when DD was a level 4 she was one of three (out of 20 girls) moved up at the end of the season. This past year about half moved up. The coaches have a fairly strict kip rule and that holds a number girls back. As I look back at even earlier years, 40 - 50% seems like a common number for Level 4 move ups at our gym.

 

[lhmom]

At DD's gym, they are pretty strict regarding level 4 repeat. Her HC feels strongly about using the 2nd yr to build their confidence. She did move up 2 of the older girls this year, mainly because they already had their Kip and they were over 10. I will say that DD's gym is not an elite gym, so the coaches do not feel they need to rush the girls through the levels. That being said, they do not usually repeat 5, but have been known to have the girls do 2 seasons of level 6 if needed.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I think the biggest mistake you can make is in the first sentence. You don't want to say "its common to REPEAT level 4".

Telling a parent their child must repeat something makes them feel like the child has failed, they liken it to having to repeat a grade at school, like the child is going to be doing the exact same things over again because she didn't do them well enough.

Let the parents know it is a big jump from level 4 to 5 (and it is very big) and it usually takes around 2 years to master the skills. This tells them their child is progressing as they should rather than being held back because they are slow. Then if a kid happens to do it in 1 year (as many will) these kids should be portrayed as doing it faster than average.

It of course depends what really happens at your gym, I am assuming most kids do more than one year at level 4, due to the question.

 

[Natasha]

Thank you Aussie coach. Good point about the wording. The issue we have is that in the past 3 competitive years we have only had one or two girls here and there do a 2nd year at a level. During the past 3 years prior to last year, we had relatively small numbers of girls competing compulsory (the others did prep-op) and gymnasts only moved to L4 after having all their L4 skills. Last year that changed. We had a large number of L4 gymnasts, some of whom were still getting skills during the first few meets. As a result, this year for the first time in the past several years, we have over 1/2 of the gymnasts who have been training L5 still not ready for L5 with competitions starting next month. Since the parents aren't used to seeing girls do a 2nd year at a level at our gym, we are trying to help parents understand that this is not uncommon. Most of these girls scored in the low to mid 34's at L4, with a few higher and lower. While I think most of the parents are handling it just fine, some are saying they don't want their dd's to compete until they are ready for L5.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

as common as toothpaste. that's all.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

At my DD's gym if you cannot pass the "kip test" (3 low bar kips, squat on and 1 high bar kip) you are staying in Level 4. That is the gatekeeper!! With level 5 it is the flyaway. What I am glad about is that they do not hold girls back based on scores. As the above poster mentioned that the girls being held back had recieved 34's all around. If Alex were held to that standard she would still be a level 4 LOL!! I think she has broken a 35 once in her career!

 

[Bella's Mom]

At my DD's gym if you cannot pass the "kip test" (3 low bar kips, squat on and 1 high bar kip) you are staying in Level 4. That is the gatekeeper!! With level 5 it is the flyaway. What I am glad about is that they do not hold girls back based on scores. As the above poster mentioned that the girls being held back had recieved 34's all around. If Alex were held to that standard she would still be a level 4 LOL!! I think she has broken a 35 once in her career!

YOWZER!!!! Bella can kip but I don't know that she can do three in a row and she hasn't even tried to kip high. Not sure how much uptraining will be going on since our competition season starts next month, but her group has done very little L5 work. B has her flic flic and her kip but no squat on (don't know that she's ever tried) and has only been spotted over the table into the pit.

My guess is she would be repeating L4 at your gym.

 

[sportzmomov3]

And why would parents need to know something that is irrelevant to their own child? Who cares how many gymnasts repeat level 4 or 5? You move to the next level when you are competition-ready. Personally, I would tell them that decisions are individually based and if there are questions, talk to the coach. It's not the job of any parent to be providing guidelines on such matters.

 

[cher062]

I wouldn't stress repeating levels other than maybe to say when a child has the skills needed for the next level they will move up and every gymnast will move at their own pace so please don't compare your child's progress to others progress.

 

[AGM78910]

I think you guys are missing one small point. If a gymnast has the skills, why stay at a lower level? Especially a compulsory one. There are a few gyms in our area that repeat levels 4 and 5 for three years in a row and 1-2 years as a level 6. (Regardless of whether or not they have the skills.) These girls rock by the third year, posting scores over 38 for AA. Most of them quit after that because level 6 skills are soooo much harder. Meanwhile they have spent 6-7 years as a compulsory gymnast. So these gyms can boast of having "State Champion Level 4" gymnast? Puuuleeze! If they start competing at age 6 then they may not get started in Optionals until high school where the skills get more difficult and they may have to repeat just to get the skills.
I have personally talked to parents that are unhappy with their kids scores when they go up against a "repeater". No way can a first year level 4 hope to score well against one who has done it for 3 years.

 

[Quadqueen]

YOWZER!!!! Bella can kip but I don't know that she can do three in a row and she hasn't even tried to kip high. Not sure how much uptraining will be going on since our competition season starts next month, but her group has done very little L5 work. B has her flic flic and her kip but no squat on (don't know that she's ever tried) and has only been spotted over the table into the pit.

My guess is she would be repeating L4 at your gym.

but didn't Bella just start L4?? At our gym, they don't really start uptraining until at least January, so my DD, a first-year L5, didn't even start kips AT ALL until late winter/spring this year. I wouldn't say Bella is necessarily repeating L4 yet!! It's only October!! (by the way, my DD only got her kip over the summer and is competing L5 now. She did one year at L4).

 

[Quadqueen]

I think you guys are missing one small point. If a gymnast has the skills, why stay at a lower level? Especially a compulsory one. There are a few gyms in our area that repeat levels 4 and 5 for three years in a row and 1-2 years as a level 6. (Regardless of whether or not they have the skills.) These girls rock by the third year, posting scores over 38 for AA. Most of them quit after that because level 6 skills are soooo much harder. Meanwhile they have spent 6-7 years as a compulsory gymnast. So these gyms can boast of having "State Champion Level 4" gymnast? Puuuleeze! If they start competing at age 6 then they may not get started in Optionals until high school where the skills get more difficult and they may have to repeat just to get the skills.
I have personally talked to parents that are unhappy with their kids scores when they go up against a "repeater". No way can a first year level 4 hope to score well against one who has done it for 3 years.

I have heard parents complaining that their first year kid is competing against another kid in their 2nd or 3rd year at a level. Who cares?? The parents of those kids know how much experience they've had...is a third year L5 really going to boast about being state champion? Maybe so, but I wouldn't give it a second thought. I know my daughter would rather move up a level than stay in that level another whole year just so she can say she scored 38+ AA.

 

[lhmom]

I think you guys are missing one small point. If a gymnast has the skills, why stay at a lower level? Especially a compulsory one. There are a few gyms in our area that repeat levels 4 and 5 for three years in a row and 1-2 years as a level 6. (Regardless of whether or not they have the skills.) These girls rock by the third year, posting scores over 38 for AA. Most of them quit after that because level 6 skills are soooo much harder. Meanwhile they have spent 6-7 years as a compulsory gymnast. So these gyms can boast of having "State Champion Level 4" gymnast? Puuuleeze! If they start competing at age 6 then they may not get started in Optionals until high school where the skills get more difficult and they may have to repeat just to get the skills.
I have personally talked to parents that are unhappy with their kids scores when they go up against a "repeater". No way can a first year level 4 hope to score well against one who has done it for 3 years.

Well, it's standard at DD's gym for them to repeat 4, one yr. at 5 then possible 2 yrs. at 6. Honestly, I was fine with this because DD started at 6 and took quite a bit of time to get the level 4 skills cleanly. This is her 2nd yr. at 4 and she's really learned to refine the skills with good form while gaining more time to work on getting the level 5 skills consistently. If my daughter continues on this path, she'll still reach optionals by age 11. That's fine because we have no expectations of where this is going. If we had wanted her to rush through the levels without good form on her skills, she would be at the other gym in town. But then again, I have yet to see any girl on DD's team who did more than 2 yrs. at 4 and certainly not stay to get a +38. The coaches are way more concerned about correct form on skills than they are about scores.

 

[Quadqueen]

In response to the original post, I would stress what another poster said...that each individual gymnast is evaluated on their own abilities and they should not be compared to others (if this is the case of course). At my DD's gym, each individual is evaluated on her abilities, as well as whether she has the skills for the next level. But there are no hard and fast rules.

In the past couple of years, about 1/4 of gymnasts at DD's gym did not repeat L4. Almost all repeat L5, but there are some exceptions to that. Our gym is not an elite gym and the coaches don't push through the levels.

 

[lhmom]

Oops, got OT! I think the safest way would be to say that movement to the next level is based on the gymnast's consistency to perform the skills needed for the next level. That way, maybe people wouldn't be bothered so much by hearing "repeat". It didn't bother me so much, but we knew going to the gym DD is at, it was either the HC's way or the highway. She is Eastern European and her feeling is that she is the professional and she will run the program the way she sees fit. Don't like it? Your kid can go elsewhere.

 

[mamaoftwo]

At our gym, out of about 18 or so L4's beginning a competition season, about 4 or so will repeat. A few will leave at the end of the season. The rest advance. Some of our repeats are girls with late-season birthdays (during second L4 year they turn 7), so, it's my understanding that they may start the season as L4, then compete L5 when eligible. But it doesn't affect my DD (she's 7 now), so I could be wrong.

BUT - every girl does "repeat" L5. A typical progression at our gym would be:
Y1: Level 3 Preteam (no competitions, can be "skipped" with success at L4 try-outs).
Y2: Compete L4 season (fall).
Y3: Compete L5 season (fall).
Y4: Compete all/part of L5 season (fall), compete one L6 meet (fall OR spring, depending on readiness of girls), compete L7 if ready (spring).
Y5: Compete L7 or L8, depending on readiness. After this, progression is highly individualized.
etc.

We try not to hold too many L4's back, if possible. We are more of an "optional" gym. Our compulsory girls do OK (middle of the road, usually), but we tend to spend a good amount of time uptraining. DD at L3 (preteam) is training L4 skills and has already started to uptrain some L5 skills, too (squat on, cast to handstand, cartwheel on beam, etc) which have recently been introduced).

Our girls need many of their L4 skills just to make the "L4 team" in December. And they won't even compete until next fall. Though DD's L3 group still really isn't handspringing - they are still working on progressions. DD hasn't even been allowed to try it on the tramp unspotted yet (a couple of them are allowed to - curiously the two with backyard tramps at home!).

Hope this helps! I am knew to this world, but this is my understanding of how it works by us!

 

[PureTalent]

I agree w/ what some posters said about it should depend on each individual child, how they're progressing and how their skills are coming along. Parents should not compare their child to the next. It should be based on the discretion of the coach(es). It's however that individual child is doing should dictate whether they move up or stay at the level. At our old gym all our Level 4 girls moved up to Level 5. Then they did level 5 at the new gym (which is an elite gym). All girls are moving to level 6....except for one girl she is repeating level 5 because she is too scared to do her flyaway AND too scared to do the backwalkover on beam. For this particular girl, her doing Level 5 will be great for her because it'll be a real confidence booster for her...something she really needs. And hopefully she'll come into level 6 with confidence and getting her flyaway and back walkover, etc.

i've found that after level 5 is where the gym sort of has the girls "split". So some are doing level 6 for the entire competition season. And the TOPS girls (like my DD) is doing half the year in level 6 and will compete half the year of level 7.

We took first place team as level 4 and first place team in Level 5. all girls in level 5 came in the top 10 in states. And we had a state champion in level 4 in almost all the age divisions. In Level 5 I think we had 4 or 5 state champions.

As someone said....I do know a gym who does have their girls repeat a level so they can get bragging rights on being state champion for the team. I think that's absolutely ridiculous. My DD is a two-time state champion and if she was ever at that gym and had to repeat those levels....she would be BORED. Plain and simple. She was undefeated at every one of her meets and can't see making a kid do it all over again. So each child is different. Some I think should repeat it again if their form isn't proper and their skills aren't up to par. Repeating a level for some kids can be good for them. But make it be good for the kid and NOT the gym.

Also, in our state meets if you are a 2nd year level 5, for example.....you are under "Level 5 Open". if you are a 1st year Level 5, you are under "Level 5 Novice" so a 2nd year kid is NOT competing against a 1st year level 5. Which, in my opinion is fair

Good luck to all your stars!

 

[AGM78910]

At our gym, out of about 18 or so L4's beginning a competition season, about 4 or so will repeat. A few will leave at the end of the season. The rest advance. Some of our repeats are girls with late-season birthdays (during second L4 year they turn 7), so, it's my understanding that they may start the season as L4, then compete L5 when eligible. But it doesn't affect my DD (she's 7 now), so I could be wrong.

BUT - every girl does "repeat" L5. A typical progression at our gym would be:
Y1: Level 3 Preteam (no competitions, can be "skipped" with success at L4 try-outs).
Y2: Compete L4 season (fall).
Y3: Compete L5 season (fall).
Y4: Compete all/part of L5 season (fall), compete one L6 meet (fall OR spring, depending on readiness of girls), compete L7 if ready (spring).
Y5: Compete L7 or L8, depending on readiness. After this, progression is highly individualized.
etc.

We try not to hold too many L4's back, if possible. We are more of an "optional" gym. Our compulsory girls do OK (middle of the road, usually), but we tend to spend a good amount of time uptraining. DD at L3 (preteam) is training L4 skills and has already started to uptrain some L5 skills, too (squat on, cast to handstand, cartwheel on beam, etc) which have recently been introduced).

Our girls need many of their L4 skills just to make the "L4 team" in December. And they won't even compete until next fall. Though DD's L3 group still really isn't handspringing - they are still working on progressions. DD hasn't even been allowed to try it on the tramp unspotted yet (a couple of them are allowed to - curiously the two with backyard tramps at home!).

Hope this helps! I am knew to this world, but this is my understanding of how it works by us!

This is the way it is done at our gym and it is a very good system. I was referring to gyms who repeat kids for competitive advantage only.
And this is not fair to the kids who are just starting out or who only do one year at each compulsory level, then move on.