Parents How do you feel about 100% medals placements?

[atlnon]

Glad my wife and I weren't the only ones thinking this. We were shocked by the first award session we've been to. It's not uncommon for the award ceremony to last almost as long as the meet (had to wait 30 min or even an hour from when the last girl finished their routine to when the organizers get to the front of the room to start the awards), then another 1 to 1.5 hours to go through all the levels and age groups. I was very surprised at all the different age group segmentation, and then even more surprised that they give award to 50% of each age group. It seems so unnecessary and a waste of time for everyone. We don't understand why we can't just give the top 3 for each event and AA, and be done with it. I'm fine with the age group segmentation as long as it's only the top 3. After a couple of meets, we quickly realize how kids can pile up medals. My daughter and us started keeping just the medals she got a top 3 placement for and throw everything else away.

I see the free leotard differently. My daughter do enjoy that as a memento of the meet, not as a participation prize. If a memento is what we are looking for, then that serves the purpose, rather than all of the placement medals beyond the top 3. Plus, getting those memento does not waste the time of 100 other families who has to stay for the whole awards ceremony. I would be totally fine also not having that memento to save money on the meet (but my daughter probably won't agree with me on that).

Lastly, my son plays serious travel baseball. Yes, they do have awards at the end of every tournament. But, it's very different. First of all, the team playing in a tournament plays for 3 to 6 games in a 2-3 day weekend (so that's around 5 to 10 hours of baseball). Only 2 teams remain at the end, and only those 2 teams get any medals. And the ceremony happens right after the game (no long wait), and only last 10 min at most. So you don't have a 1.5 hr ceremony for just 5 min of performance, you don't have all the participants in that session wasting their time in the ceremony, and you only give award to the top 2 teams (not 50% + 1). Honestly, as I write this, I find the awards ceremony for gymnastics more and more silly.

 

[NutterButter]

Wow, 8 pages in with this thread. Sure is a lot of cynicism for awards for kids. I agree that 100% placements is silly beyond the earliest levels but the rest...<<shrug>>> whatever.

 

[Sasha]

My daughter do enjoy that as a memento of the meet, not as a participation prize.

I also identify with the "memento" rationale, and agree that it could be something other than an AA medal.

My daughter would LOVE it if they just handed out Top 3, then everyone got a nice meet-specific-designed memento like one of those little keychains, stuffed animal wearing meet-t-shirt, trinket box, magnet, or pins they love to collect. She is always coveting those little trinkets when they are sold at meets (she's almost 12). Leotards are nice, but my DD is picky on fit/feel and hasn't really worn meet leos most of the time (e.g. she finds Destira leotard seams itchy so won't wear them, alpha factor too baggy in butt, some other off-brand always gives her wedgies... on and on... lol).

I concur that shortening awards ceremonies would be a hit for most families!

ETA: OOh, I would love a mini-meet-medal on a necklace as a memento - super cute! Someone please do this.

 

[mommyof1]

Wow, 8 pages in with this thread. Sure is a lot of cynicism for awards for kids. I agree that 100% placements is silly beyond the earliest levels but the rest...<<shrug>>> whatever.

I think the strong opinions result in large part from how awful it is to sit through an hour or more of awards when you and your kid are starving and exhausted from a 4-hour meet session and you are trying to get the kid home at a decent hour to avoid ruining the entire school week with a late Sunday night. The one time they got through awards in 20 minutes I really didn't care that they were medaling out 50%.

 

[raenndrops]

Glad my wife and I weren't the only ones thinking this. We were shocked by the first award session we've been to. It's not uncommon for the award ceremony to last almost as long as the meet (had to wait 30 min or even an hour from when the last girl finished their routine to when the organizers get to the front of the room to start the awards), then another 1 to 1.5 hours to go through all the levels and age groups. I was very surprised at all the different age group segmentation, and then even more surprised that they give award to 50% of each age group. It seems so unnecessary and a waste of time for everyone. We don't understand why we can't just give the top 3 for each event and AA, and be done with it. I'm fine with the age group segmentation as long as it's only the top 3. After a couple of meets, we quickly realize how kids can pile up medals. My daughter and us started keeping just the medals she got a top 3 placement for and throw everything else away.

I see the free leotard differently. My daughter do enjoy that as a memento of the meet, not as a participation prize. If a memento is what we are looking for, then that serves the purpose, rather than all of the placement medals beyond the top 3. Plus, getting those memento does not waste the time of 100 other families who has to stay for the whole awards ceremony. I would be totally fine also not having that memento to save money on the meet (but my daughter probably won't agree with me on that).

Lastly, my son plays serious travel baseball. Yes, they do have awards at the end of every tournament. But, it's very different. First of all, the team playing in a tournament plays for 3 to 6 games in a 2-3 day weekend (so that's around 5 to 10 hours of baseball). Only 2 teams remain at the end, and only those 2 teams get any medals. And the ceremony happens right after the game (no long wait), and only last 10 min at most. So you don't have a 1.5 hr ceremony for just 5 min of performance, you don't have all the participants in that session wasting their time in the ceremony, and you only give award to the top 2 teams (not 50% + 1). Honestly, as I write this, I find the awards ceremony for gymnastics more and more silly.

Baseball doesnt take a long wait because they know who won immediately... and they have everything ready in advance. There is no chance of a tie because they play extra innings.
I agree that award ceremonies CAN be too long.
At our gym, we often joke that I should offer a tutorial to ALL the other teams that want to host meets about how to be efficient with awards. We mostly do ribbons with the actual places on them instead of medals. Medals are for Championships (which we have also hosted in the past).
Our goal is awards start 20 minutes after the last score is flashed (because print outs need done, ties highlighted, ribbons ADJUSTED, and the girls need a chance to use the bathroom and get a bite to eat). Some times, we get them started sooner, but we wont start unless the girls are all there (bathroom / getting food sometimes slows them down) or it has been 20 minutes. We then get through each age group as quickly as possible. By awarding 100% at most of our meets, we actually go faster because the girls don't have to go sit back down between each event's awards. They just step BACK.

 

[atlnon]

Baseball doesnt take a long wait because they know who won immediately... and they have everything ready in advance. There is no chance of a tie because they play extra innings.

Was citing baseball bec some previous posters mentioned that other sports, specifically baseball, also does awards every weekend. I wanted to share that the awards in baseball isn't that time consuming, doesn't impact all of the participants and their families, and only awards the top 2 teams. I haven't been involved in any competitive sports that awards 50%+1 of all participants. They do however give a participation trophy to all participants in most rec league. I would understand it if they do this in the annual meet they have in rec gymnastics, but not in competitive gymnastics.

Since gymnastics need additional time to compile and prepare the results (understandable), then it's all the more reason to just stick with just the top 3 for each events and AA to get it over quickly. The meets we are normally at breaks it out over 4 to 6 age groups. Bet the time needed to compile the result and handing out all the medals, it is easily 1 to 1.5 hrs. If they are really efficient, it could be over in 45 min. If they stick with top 3 for each event and AA, it can all be done in 20 to 45 min.

And when it comes to compiling results, I don't get the meets that takes more than 10 min to do it since we have the results instantly in the palm of our hands through meetscoreonline (or whatever website the meet is using).

I think the strong opinions result in large part from how awful it is to sit through an hour or more of awards when you and your kid are starving and exhausted from a 4-hour meet session and you are trying to get the kid home at a decent hour to avoid ruining the entire school week with a late Sunday night. The one time they got through awards in 20 minutes I really didn't care that they were medaling out 50%.

I agree. If they do it really fast, then I may not mind as much. Although I still don't see any reason for awards past top 3, and can't help but think that if they can do this in 20 min, imagine how much faster it would be if they just award the top 3... But yes, I can live with it. After 3 years with my daughter in competitive gymnastics, I still shake my head during every award ceremony as I watch them call half (or sometimes all) of the gymnasts for awards for every event and AA across multiple age groups.

 

[profmom]

And when it comes to compiling results, I don't get the meets that takes more than 10 min to do it since we have the results instantly in the palm of our hands through meetscoreonline (or whatever website the meet is using).

Scores must be verified. Believe me, you do not want to witness the mess if the people running the meet skip this step. Since it seems like you've never looked behind the scenes at a meet, basically each score entered in the computer system should ideally be checked with what the judge has logged by hand in the score sheet. Even in our wonderful age of instant IPad score entry, mistakes can and do happen.

My seat-of-the-pants guess is that people whose young children are routinely in the top three are more adamant about limiting the number of medals awarded than people whose young children are usually scoring in the bottom half on every event and AA. I'd encourage a little more imagination and empathy if this shoe fits. Awards ceremonies can be run through pretty quickly, especially if the age groups aren't broken up too much. I get that people object to the length of these things, but I don't get why people load so much moral significance on the medals versus no medals debate. Ideally, the further your kids get on in the sport, the less this should matter and the more they should care about hitting routines.

My kids always have snacks in their meet bags in case things run long during awards. Haven't had anyone pass out from hunger or thirst yet.

 

[NutterButter]

I think the strong opinions result in large part from how awful it is to sit through an hour or more of awards when you and your kid are starving and exhausted from a 4-hour meet session and you are trying to get the kid home at a decent hour to avoid ruining the entire school week with a late Sunday night. The one time they got through awards in 20 minutes I really didn't care that they were medaling out 50%.

I get it. BTDT with tired kid, hot kid, hungry kid, disappointed-in-my-scores kid, happy kid, sick kid, barfing little brother because all he ate was red-colored candy and drink for the entire meet and anxious mom who just wants to get on the road because of the newly fallen snow.

I think the comparisons to other travel sports like baseball and soccer are a little misguided. My son plays travel baseball. In one season (mid April - early August) he will play in a minimum of 30 games. The potential is for almost 50 games if the team makes it to state and/or bracketed finals in tournaments. How long will it take a gymnast to compete in 30 meets? Plus if my DS has a bad showing behind home plate he will usually get another opportunity to try again later in that same game or a few days later at the next game. If a gymnast falls on beam, she likely won't have another opportunity to try again for a few weeks. Because of this I have no problems with awards going out 50%.

The age groups and #'s of gymnasts do get smaller when you get to optionals so you can look forward to that. A big session used to have 90 kids. Now in L9 a big session has 50.

 

[atlnon]

Scores must be verified. Believe me, you do not want to witness the mess if the people running the meet skip this step. Since it seems like you've never looked behind the scenes at a meet, basically each score entered in the computer system should ideally be checked with what the judge has logged by hand in the score sheet. Even in our wonderful age of instant IPad score entry, mistakes can and do happen.

Good point. No, I haven't had the chance to look behind the scene. I have volunteered as a timer and I see the judges keep a handwritten record of all their scores. I didn't know all these scores are manually verified all the time. I've never seen the final scores in meetscoreonline corrected or changed after the meet is over and before awards so I've never thought about what you pointed out.

My seat-of-the-pants guess is that people whose young children are routinely in the top three are more adamant about limiting the number of medals awarded than people whose young children are usually scoring in the bottom half on every event and AA. I'd encourage a little more imagination and empathy if this shoe fits.

I don't know. My daughter probably get top 3 in an event probably a couple of time in the whole season of 5 or 6 meets. I don't think that colors my perspective bec in all sports that we've been at, there has never been an expectation that a kid has to medal. There are whole season where my kids team didn't finish in the top 2 or 3 to get a medal in other sports, and we didn't have an issue with it. The progress they make and the individual wins they have (winning a game, or making a personal best) is enough. Again, this is for competitive sports, not rec sports. To make it worse, in some sports, there's always an inevitable ranking with other kids in the team that affects your playing time in select or competitive teams (being in the bench in basketball or batting in the bottom of the lineup in baseball). If a kid doesn't learn to have satisfaction from the sports itself and from the progress they are making as the reward in itself, they will not last. I asked my son one time if he was bothered whenever he was put in the bottom of the batting order whenever he gets in a slump bec I heard some kids are. He said he's not, and that if a kid is bothered, maybe rec baseball would be more appropriate for that kid.

I think the comparisons to other travel sports like baseball and soccer are a little misguided. My son plays travel baseball. In one season (mid April - early August) he will play in a minimum of 30 games. The potential is for almost 50 games if the team makes it to state and/or bracketed finals in tournaments. How long will it take a gymnast to compete in 30 meets?

Not sure I follow. A typical travel baseball season is composed of 10 to 12 tournaments. They can only get a medal on those 10 to 12 tournaments, not in each of the 30 to 50 games. And again, it's only the top 2 teams. A lot of teams can go through a whole season w/o finishing in the top 2 in any tournaments.

Now, what is different about travel baseball is that they have different level of competitions, and a team can choose to participate in the level of competition that best matches their team to increase their chances of winning a tournament. Not sure if there is something like that in gymnastics. But even then, the a lot of teams that still can go through an entire season w/o medaling, or just with just 1 or 2 tournament wins.

 

[NutterButter]

Not sure I follow. A typical travel baseball season is composed of 10 to 12 tournaments. They can only get a medal on those 10 to 12 tournaments, not in each of the 30 to 50 games. And again, it's only the top 2 teams. A lot of teams can go through a whole season w/o finishing in the top 2 in any tournaments.

Now, what is different about travel baseball is that they have different level of competitions, and a team can choose to participate in the level of competition that best matches their team to increase their chances of winning a tournament. Not sure if there is something like that in gymnastics. But even then, the a lot of teams that still can go through an entire season w/o medaling, or just with just 1 or 2 tournament wins.

Baseball in my area is a little different. There are a very small handful of "elite" clubs that play as you describe and they truly travel around the region or country. Most travel clubs though are community based. You play for the club in the city that you live in. You are not allowed to play for a club in a different city. The team is part of a league and plays against other cities during the week and on weekends they play in tournaments which may or may not require an overnight. This season my son has two out of state tournaments. Half the games for the season will be league games, half from tournaments. I have friends in other parts of the country where club ball is as prevalent as club gymnastics.

Besides that though - you are comparing a team sport to an individual sport. My comments that you quoted were addressing the individual contributions of a player. If a kid has a bad inning on whatever position they get to try again in the same game. If they have a bad game, chances are they will be back in it a few days later at the next game. Quick turn around. Of course it is about the team's performance in a game that determines the W or L but I was trying to bring it to the individual level. My ballplayer sill has his own personal goals for games. Gymnastics is individual with far fewer opportunities in a season to show your stuff. Many gymnasts go through a season without medaling.

And...gymnastics has different levels too and coaches determine the level of competition that matches their philosophy. Gyms have different standards for when they allow kids to move up. Stick around chalkbucket and the sport for a couple years and you will see what this looks like....that's a whole other can of worms!

 

[raenndrops]

Scores must be verified. Believe me, you do not want to witness the mess if the people running the meet skip this step. Since it seems like you've never looked behind the scenes at a meet, basically each score entered in the computer system should ideally be checked with what the judge has logged by hand in the score sheet. Even in our wonderful age of instant IPad score entry, mistakes can and do happen.

My seat-of-the-pants guess is that people whose young children are routinely in the top three are more adamant about limiting the number of medals awarded than people whose young children are usually scoring in the bottom half on every event and AA. I'd encourage a little more imagination and empathy if this shoe fits. Awards ceremonies can be run through pretty quickly, especially if the age groups aren't broken up too much. I get that people object to the length of these things, but I don't get why people load so much moral significance on the medals versus no medals debate. Ideally, the further your kids get on in the sport, the less this should matter and the more they should care about hitting routines.

My kids always have snacks in their meet bags in case things run long during awards. Haven't had anyone pass out from hunger or thirst yet.

To add to the verification... coaches CAN appeal a score and it may not be filed until the very end of the meet, especially if it was one of the last girls to compete or the coach was waiting until their final score was in to see if it would be "worth it."
Or a coach may have accidentally entered a gymnast's birthdate incorrectly... leading to her being in the wrong age group (and it is not caught until the very end).
Or there may be 2 gymnasts on 1 team with the same first name and last initial. If their scorecards get out of order and the judge accidentally records one girl's score on the other one's card (because the judges only call the first name), then the results would be wrong.
Or the computer system may accidentally bump a few girls to different age groups for some inexplicable reason (having to do with their birthday falling between the age declaration date and the meet date) and that needs corrected... This only happened once, back in 2011 and we havent had that problem since, partly because we went away from Dec. 1 age is age for the year to meet date aging.

As for 50%+1, some states Require it for some meets, so a lot of meets do it. We are required to do top 12 in our Y district (but can't have more than 18 in an age group). Some gyms split age groups so there aren't more than 12 in any age group. Some are willing to do more than 12 and only award top 12. These gyms usually give a participation ribbon to all the girls first, called up by team. We award all girls (but not scratches) and try to keep age groups to 15 or less... even though I have a REALLY PRETTY 17th place hot pink ribbon Many times, our age groups are much smaller (10-13 in L3-L4 and Xcel Gold-Platinum and 4-10 in L5-L8 are typical), depending on the teams present.

 

[atlnon]

Stick around chalkbucket and the sport for a couple years and you will see what this looks like....that's a whole other can of worms!

Yeah, I'm learning that. That is why I'm in this forum. Haven't participated much, but learning a lot. I've always been frustrated with the awards ceremonies, and my wife always asks me why can't they just award the top 3. But we've kept it to ourselves and just assumed that this is how gymnastics is. So I was pleasantly surprised when this thread came up and even more so when I find that other people feel the same as us. I've shared my thoughts around it and I appreciated the other perspective shared in this thread. It helps me be more understanding and empathetic (or at least be less frustrated in the midst of the awards ceremony with my stomach growling)...

 

[mommyof1]

My seat-of-the-pants guess is that people whose young children are routinely in the top three are more adamant about limiting the number of medals awarded than people whose young children are usually scoring in the bottom half on every event and AA.

During two of her three seasons my kid has placed in the bottom half on every event and AA at most of her meets. She has never placed higher than fourth. I would be a lot happier if there were consistent age divisions with only 3-5 medals. It wouldn’t be so hard on the perpetual losers if there weren’t quite so many winners.

 

[raenndrops]

Yeah, I'm learning that. That is why I'm in this forum. Haven't participated much, but learning a lot. I've always been frustrated with the awards ceremonies, and my wife always asks me why can't they just award the top 3. But we've kept it to ourselves and just assumed that this is how gymnastics is. So I was pleasantly surprised when this thread came up and even more so when I find that other people feel the same as us. I've shared my thoughts around it and I appreciated the other perspective shared in this thread. It helps me be more understanding and empathetic (or at least be less frustrated in the midst of the awards ceremony with my stomach growling)...

Have your wife pack you snacks

 

[raenndrops]

Good point. No, I haven't had the chance to look behind the scene. I have volunteered as a timer and I see the judges keep a handwritten record of all their scores. I didn't know all these scores are manually verified all the time. I've never seen the final scores in meetscoreonline corrected or changed after the meet is over and before awards so I've never thought about what you pointed out.

As someone who is in charge of getting awards ready for ALL our home meets... there for EVERY session of our meets, believe me - there is a LOT going on behind the scenes. Our home meets don't have live online scoring though, so parents wouldnt see changes. AND even with Live Scoring, unless you were paying attention to every score on all events for each age group, you wouldn't necessarily notice a change of 8.05 to 8.5 made at some point and if the score was even lower, you would probably not notice it at all.

Enjoy the ride.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

My seat-of-the-pants guess is that people whose young children are routinely in the top three are more adamant about limiting the number of medals awarded than people whose young children are usually scoring in the bottom half on every event and AA.

We have been on both ends depending on level. I’m a top 3 places. Whether she is top, bottom or middle. Even top 5 is Ok

More then that is over done.

If you are going to do more then top3/5 then have less age groups.

Quick look at just NYS last year L4 states. There were 3 meets, 25 total divisions. 25 girls claim NYS Level 4 state placement champions.

That’s 25 1st place NYS L4 champions @ 4 events and AA, 25 2nd place NYS L4 champions @ 4 events and AA and so on down. I don’t know how many places out.

Last year’s L7s 12 divisions. So there are 12 NYS 1st Place bar, beam, floor, vault and AA champions. And so on.

At least starting at level 7 there is Regionals. That has way more meaning. And I know it does to most of the girls. Because it goes by scores not age groups.

 

[skschlag]

I guess I am ok with top 10-15. But that is because boys' age groups can range from 5 one meet to 85 the next.

 

[profmom]

Last year’s L7s 12 divisions. So there are 12 NYS 1st Place bar, beam, floor, vault and AA champions. And so on.

At least starting at level 7 there is Regionals. That has way more meaning. And I know it does to most of the girls. Because it goes by scores not age groups.

Uh yeah. There were 30 girls in each one of those divisions. If you just count down from the top, you reach 50 before you get to the AAs below 37. If you'd like, you can experience a meet with 150 competitors in two flights with capital cup format. Personally, having done that on the boys' side, I find sessions with 60 athletes much more tolerable. If you want to argue for having one set of awards for those 60 athletes, fine -- I don't see a huge difference between one and two, and again I don't see a huge moral outrage in having a younger 10 year old state champ and an older 10 year old state champ rather than just one champ to rule them all. If anyone really really really cares, I'd guess most state meets keep consistent judging panels for each level, so you can look online and see who got the tippy top score in the level on each event and AA, and those people can be entitled to call themselves the uberchampions.

Also I am confused by your comment about regionals. Regionals does qualification by score, but the meet itself is just like other meets: girls are broken up into equally sized age groups, and regional champions are named for each age group.

 

[NutterButter]

Also I am confused by your comment about regionals. Regionals does qualification by score, but the meet itself is just like other meets: girls are broken up into equally sized age groups, and regional champions are named for each age group.

Look no further than Regionals if you really want to see some wacky age groups.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Also I am confused by your comment about regionals. Regionals does qualification by score, but the meet itself is just like other meets: girls are broken up into equally sized age groups, and regional champions are named for each age group.

To clarify. To qualify for regionals it’s top scores. Makes it more meaningful. When they qualify they know they were in the top end of things.

Again with so many age groups you can have a podium sweeper scoring lower than a kid in a different age group. Kids get that. They accept it, they don’t like. They just get that’s how it is.

I will say it bothers them more when their lower scorer teammate is claiming state champ with lower scores.

And my point was how meaningful is it with so many kids getting medal.

My Dad in other state. Wow, she got 2nd place in the whole state......

Umm Dad calm down, don’t be telling the folks at breakfast she one of top 2 in the state, there were 20 kids in her group. .........

And we enjoy our wins when we get them. We also understand perspective.