Parents How much do you uptrain?

[Really]

DD has just begun training level 4. Her gym competes in winter/spring, so plenty of time till meet season. Tonight she told me that the L4 coach is not going to start teaching them any of the L4 routines until they've mastered all the L5 skills first. Huh. Do your gyms uptrain this much? What are your thoughts on this training strategy? Interested in hearing diverse perspectives from parents and coaches.

 

[LindyHopper]

I have no problem with that. They get so sick of those routines by the end of the season. Let them uptrain all summer. Even if they don't start routines until September, that still gives them 3-4 months with the routines before meet season.

 

[Really]

I have no problem with that. They get so sick of those routines by the end of the season. Let them uptrain all summer. Even if they don't start routines until September, that still gives them 3-4 months with the routines before meet season.

I guess then my question would be, why not just have the kids score out of L4 sooner and move them up to L5? Why wait a whole season?

 

[mom2newgymnast]

Dd's gym doesn't do a whole lot of uptraining at the compulsory levels, although I think they are changing their philosophy some. My dd will be competing level 5 in the fall and she has been at the gym since level 2 and they have never done much uptraining beyond the level they will be competing. However some of the rising 3's and 4's are definitely working on skills above their levels. It's a little frustrating for my dd and her teammates, but oh well.

Anyway, it sounds like you are saying that she has all of her level 4 skills already although you say she just began training level 4? If that's the case, it sounds like she must have been uptraining level 4 last year? I guess if that is true, it makes sense that they would be working on level 5 skills now that they are 4's. That's definitely not how dd's gym works (training one level and competing the level lower), but I guess it isn't unheard of. Although some might call it "sandbagging". Fwiw, dd's gym starts competing in September and they haven't started working on routines yet, so I don't think waiting for that part seems unusual. Also, I would think it would take longer than 3-4 months to really master the level 5 skills? From what I hear level 5 scoring is tough and it's not just enough to be able to do the skills, you have to really hit the angles, etc. Dd's team has been working on them since December and bars still aren't quite where they need to be for some of them. Do they already have their level 5 skills and just need to "master" them, or do they still need to learn them?

 

[SMH]

We compete Oct-April, lots of uptraining April-June, and then new routines/current level skills are focused on. If a kid is repeating a level (we are a low hour gym and a lot of kids repeat at lower levels) they do uptraining all year long, since they already know the routines.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I personally don't uptrain at all.

At my my daughters gym. They uptrain all year. But summer is pretty much all uptraining until at least August. Their mock meet is in Sept. The routines themselves will come quickly if they have all the skills.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I guess then my question would be, why not just have the kids score out of L4 sooner and move them up to L5? Why wait a whole season?

All gyms do it differently. But having the routines and skills and getting them optimal takes time. So unless you are specifically going for "moving them up" it's a climb to States. That is why they have a season.

So each meet they should improve and they should peak around states.

 

[duyetanh]

They uptrain, but not as much as my kid would like. But then again, the skills are getting scary. So gee, I guess I am ok with them not uptraining as much and just perfecting what they have, lol. But I do know uptraining is important, so it's probably good they do it.

 

[skschlag]

My ds' gym is constantly working on the next skill. They run base sets on each event, and then, once they are verified, they work on their next skills. It really isn't uptraining, just a constant movement forward. So when they get to an event, they do their base set to coach's satisfaction, and then move on to skills. It has been a good system for them.

 

[Really]

Yes, they were uptraining for L4+ in L3. DD has had her kip consistently since the start of L3. She has all of the L4 bars skills but has not connected them into a routine yet (she has some higher level bars skills too like CHS, baby giants and has been training giants and flyaways for whatever that's worth). She tells me she can do all of the L4 beam and floor skills as they started training them last year and even began training some L5 skills (BWO on beam, FT on floor). The only event she can't do yet is her Front handspring on vault; although I know some of her L4 teammates can do it so they've been training it. So I would not say that she is competition ready for L4, but it's just on VT that I'd say that. I have no idea about her L5 skills because we're not allowed to stay and watch practice so I just see snippets here and there.

For the record, as a parent I am comfortable with the coaches' decision to have DD in L4 as I am not exactly excited about the increase in hours and tuition for L5. I don't think that the coaches should necessarily be pushing my daughter up the levels any faster. I am happy to go at a more relaxed pace and develop home-school-gym balance. But I am wondering from a coach's perspective what their rationales might be because they do this for all kids at the gym, even ones that are scoring 38+ and have all the skills for the next level up, and the coaches generally resist letting these gymnasts skip levels. The question of "sandbagging" is a discussion I'd like to hear more of on this thread, because I've always had the nagging feeling it might be something DD's gym does more than most people might consider good sportsmanship.

Dd's gym doesn't do a whole lot of uptraining at the compulsory levels, although I think they are changing their philosophy some. My dd will be competing level 5 in the fall and she has been at the gym since level 2 and they have never done much uptraining beyond the level they will be competing. However some of the rising 3's and 4's are definitely working on skills above their levels. It's a little frustrating for my dd and her teammates, but oh well.

Anyway, it sounds like you are saying that she has all of her level 4 skills already although you say she just began training level 4? If that's the case, it sounds like she must have been uptraining level 4 last year? I guess if that is true, it makes sense that they would be working on level 5 skills now that they are 4's. That's definitely not how dd's gym works (training one level and competing the level lower), but I guess it isn't unheard of. Although some might call it "sandbagging". Fwiw, dd's gym starts competing in September and they haven't started working on routines yet, so I don't think waiting for that part seems unusual. Also, I would think it would take longer than 3-4 months to really master the level 5 skills? From what I hear level 5 scoring is tough and it's not just enough to be able to do the skills, you have to really hit the angles, etc. Dd's team has been working on them since December and bars still aren't quite where they need to be for some of them. Do they already have their level 5 skills and just need to "master" them, or do they still need to learn them?

 

[raenndrops]

If a gymnast STARTS the season at a 37+ AND they have ALL the skills for the next level (and there are 5 or more gymnasts that meet these "situations" in more than 1 Compulsory level of a team who are at least 7 years old), then I would consider it sandbagging to keep them at that level all season. Unless it is a state that does Fall Compulsories / Spring Optionals, in which case, L5 competing at that level of perfection would not necessarily be considered sandbagging - unless they had sandbagged the previous seasons.

As for up training, we don't do much DURING the season, unless there is more than three weeks between meets. Championships are in March. After that, we go into "up training mode" even if we know a girl will repeat. Repeaters have the option to score out by achieving a set score 2x early enough in the season to have enough meets left to qualify for Championships at the higher level.

We teach "newbies" the L3 routines bit by bit. They join team in April. Train L3 skills April - June. The routines are taught with missing skills "marked" in May. They learn just part of the routine at a time. They do this after working individual skills. This goes on for 2 months (so 48 hours). Then, in July, they go to rec camp for a week. They learn the complete floor and beam routines in the first 4 days, still marking missing skills and being spotted on close skills. In August - October, they continue training skills and routines. We also work to clean up the details. Meet season starts in November. More of the same with the week of a meet more focused on routines than perfection of every skill.
L3 repeaters up train until September / October. Starting September, they do run routines once a week (whereas the newbies are doing them multiple times a day). In October, the repeaters join the newbies as a group.
L4 and L5 newbies start learning routines in September while still working on perfecting skills.
L4 repeaters do the same as L3 repeaters but with L4.
We do not have L5 repeaters (unless the gymnast chooses to repeat or they only competed 1 meet - so not really repeating in that case).
Optionals all year work the skills in their routines, then work drills and skills for the next progression. They get routines choreographed in August / September. They do dance throughs and / or full routines until the beginning of October (unless they are on the Jr. High Team). They begin running routines more often in October.

 

[M2Abi]

DD is competing 5/6 this coming year and is uptraining Level 7 skills. A lot of the higher level skills take a long time to master so I would be concerned if they were only focusing on Level 5 skills.

 

[gymgal]

I guess then my question would be, why not just have the kids score out of L4 sooner and move them up to L5? Why wait a whole season?

Likely because your gym strives to have to have their girls at the top of the podium at every single meet. So they train up, compete down. It ensures that the girls have perfected their skills for a full year before they have to compete them. It also nearly ensures 37+ scores average. Is it sandbagging? That's debatable. Really depends on how well the gymnast could compete at the next level, as raen mentioned.

 

[spider_monkey]

My dd is competing L4 next season. Right now she has all skills for vault & beam for L5/6, and floor for L7. So she's doing a lot of uptraining in those areas. However bars is holding her back (last season was her first year on team) especially her kip. So while she does get to do some flyaway/cast handstand work, she's mostly working on bars basics right now.

 

[Teammom]

random question here, what age do you have to compete L3 and what age L4?

 

[raenndrops]

random question here, what age do you have to compete L3 and what age L4?

There is no age that you HAVE to compete either Level. There is only a MINIMUM age.
For Level 3, the minimum age is 6.
For Levels 4, 5, 6, and 7, the minimum age is 7.

 

[Teammom]

Thanks, that's what I meant to say!

 

[Really]

Well, assuming that we're all in agreement that Raenndrops's strict definition of sandbagging is the correct one (and I realize this is a big assumption given that this is Chalkbucket! ) I am pleased to announce that my DD's team does NOT sandbag. Strictly speaking.

Likely because your gym strives to have to have their girls at the top of the podium at every single meet. So they train up, compete down. It ensures that the girls have perfected their skills for a full year before they have to compete them. It also nearly ensures 37+ scores average. Is it sandbagging? That's debatable. Really depends on how well the gymnast could compete at the next level, as raen mentioned.

 

[tpMom]

My DD's gym seems to constantly move girls forward, no matter what level. So when they get their bhs, they start to train 2, when they get 2 they train bhsbt, when they get that they train layouts and so on. Girls each uptrain different skills depending on where they're at. So, the level 4 team has some girls working on 2 bhs, some working bhsbt, and some working early layout drills. On beam there's girls working on cartwheels while others are doing bwo, and a few are working bhs. The point seems to be to keep them interested and engaged and learning. Uptraining slows way down around September, with our competition season starting in December, but the girls are always being challenged to advance, especially if they're doing well at their current level.

 

[raenndrops]

Well, assuming that we're all in agreement that Raenndrops's strict definition of sandbagging is the correct one (and I realize this is a big assumption given that this is Chalkbucket! ) I am pleased to announce that my DD's team does NOT sandbag. Strictly speaking.

Glad I could help. I though long and hard about the definition of sandbagging and it took me about a half hour to come up with it, lol.

Of course, I believe if a girl can score 38 at the beginning of the season and has all the skills for the next level solid (potentially 35+), she should move up that way, she can continue to improve with the goal to peak at State.