WAG IGC requiring female campers to wear shorts or leggings

[gymmomx2]

If we are ok with organizations (many gyms) requiring girls to NOT wear shorts, surely we should be ok with organizations requiring them to wear shorts? Two sides of the same coin IMO. I do agree that the best would be to not mandate it either way and allow girls to wear what is most comfortable for them as long as it is still safe for the activity.

I think IGC has good intentions so I’m not going to pass judgement on their decision but I am not sure this would do anything to prevent abuse. It might be a first small step in changing the culture.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

If they said, "In light of recent scandals, all our boys(who never wore shirts before) must now wear shirts." It would be victim blaming, yes.

If this was about pictures, then they should have been very, very, very clear about that from the get go. This is a difficult horse to put back in the barn. But even then...I don't want my DD's athletic clothing dictated by a gym's desire/need to put pictures online. I find that kind of a crappy reason, as a parent whose child is, at this age, uncomfortable doing gym in shorts.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

If we are ok with organizations (many gyms) requiring girls to NOT wear shorts, surely we should be ok with organizations requiring them to wear shorts? Two sides of the same coin IMO. I do agree that the best would be to not mandate it either way and allow girls to wear what is most comfortable for them as long as it is still safe for the activity.

I think IGC has good intentions so I’m not going to pass judgement on their decision but I am not sure this would do anything to prevent abuse. It might be a first small step in changing the culture.

The vast majority of posters in the thread about shorts actually did not think it was OK to tell the girls they can't wear shorts. I don't think it's OK to tell them they have to, for the exact same reason.

Changing the culture would be letting them wear what they're comfortable in, within safety parameters. Many/most big girls would probably convert quickly and then the little girls would eventually follow, since they want to be like the big girls. But it would be their choice.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think if the debate is painted as require shorts vs require no shorts, the point has been missed entirely.

 

[skschlag]

If they said, "In light of recent scandals, all our boys(who never wore shirts before) must now wear shirts." It would be victim blaming, yes.

So, the argument that boys have to wear shirts because it distracts the boys is not enough? Or that they have to wear it because of safe sport? Seems apples to apples to me. I believe it was instituted at at least one gym after a sexual abuse lawsuit as a part of the judgement, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[tpMom]

Okay confession time - I've spent a good part of the day trying to figure out how anybody could think that requiring gymnasts to wear pants or shorts was a BAD idea. Then I brought it up to a male friend of mine, who agreed with me, saying something like, "I would feel uncomfortable watching girls do those tricks in such skimpy outfits. That's not what I want to see at a sporting event."

And suddenly I understand the other side.

Because it's not about making the male (or female) viewers of meets, photographs, or practices comfortable. It's about honoring the children, young adult, and adult gymnasts for the amazing athletes they are. Like so many other people have said before me, a pair of bicycle shorts is not going to prevent abuse; and, if the athlete doesn't feel more comfortable wearing them then the only reason to require them in the uniform is to make someone else feel more comfortable - which is exactly the wrong response to the culture of abuse in this sport.

That said, I still believe that IGC has the right intentions behind the idea. They basically said that they were trying to encourage the practice across the country and they are requiring it at their practices/meets in order to help spread a culture that accepts shorts and pants at both practices and meets. I hope that we can start seeing female athletes across the nation given the choice whether or not to wear pants or shorts. I also think seeing the athletes at the IGC wearing pants will help move this cultural shift along much more quickly than a memo or board resolution might. But, I absolutely see the other side of the argument here, that REQUIRING shorts or pants is putting the responsibility on the athletes who were abused, instead of on the adults who did the abusing or allowed it to happen in the first place.

I think this debate really highlights how difficult it is going to be to figure out how to make high-level gymnastics safe for our children. There is no easy answer. There's no magic bullet or cure. It's going to take debates like this and input from coaches, parents, athletes, and judges to find a solution that works.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think the overall goal should be to protect the athlete's bodily autonomy. Nassar didn't abuse gymnasts because he saw their upper thighs -- he abused athletes because he had the opportunity and ability and desire to take control of their bodies away from them. THAT'S what we need to be battling against. And we don't fight that by making rules about what the athletes are permitted to wear.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I don't agree with this choice, but I don't think we should be so quick to throw IGC under the bus. They have been very vocal in calling out USAG and demanding changes within the sport and advocating for the protection of athletes. I think that perhaps this was a hasty decision that was not well thought out in terms of the message it would send, I think they probably have their reasoning. Like others have said, hundreds of pictures from camp are posted online each day and this could be to protect the athletes in that regard.

I have a problem with IGC and their sudden concern----where was the calling out and concern in the past? They are so vocal now because it is suddenly in the spotlight, but where were they before everyone jumped on the bandwagon. I find their timing to be too easy. The abuse by Nassar was known years ago, the training ways have been observed for decades, yet NOW they want to shame USAG and make all these changes? I just feel if they were as concerned as they are acting now, they should have spoken up before.

Now they are spearheading a campaign to make shorts required for competitions? How about letting gym owners and gymnasts do what they want as far as uniforms? It's IGC's camp, they can do what they want, they just need to understand that a lot of people won't be happy about it.

 

[Flippin'A]

This is not taking a single step toward changing the culture. The culture that needs to change isn't about wearing leotards or skimpy clothing, it's about gymnasts who feel that they can't speak up to voice their own needs for fear of retribution. As many others have said, Nassar didn't abuse those girls because of what they were wearing, he did it because he wanted to and no one stopped him. He continued doing it because many victims couldn't speak out or were ignored when they did. A gymnast being forced to practice in shorts even though they make her feel uncomfortable is exactly as bad as a gymnast being forced to only wear a leotard even though it makes her feel uncomfortable. Both strip the gymnast of her control over her clothing, and both take her voice and preferences out of the conversation. If the concern has to do with leaked pictures, then they have a few choices. They can stop posting pictures online altogether, they can sort through images and take out any that are even remotely questionable in terms of angle or positioning of the gymnasts, or they can take on the massive task of only sending families pictures of their individual child.

I don't doubt for a second that this decision was made with the best possible intentions, but I sincerely hope they receive enough backlash to realize that this is nothing but an empty gesture.

 

[coachmolly]

I have a problem with IGC and their sudden concern----where was the calling out and concern in the past? They are so vocal now because it is suddenly in the spotlight, but where were they before everyone jumped on the bandwagon. I find their timing to be too easy. The abuse by Nassar was known years ago, the training ways have been observed for decades, yet NOW they want to shame USAG and make all these changes? I just feel if they were as concerned as they are acting now, they should have spoken up before.

Now they are spearheading a campaign to make shorts required for competitions? How about letting gym owners and gymnasts do what they want as far as uniforms? It's IGC's camp, they can do what they want, they just need to understand that a lot of people won't be happy about it.

I get what you're saying, and really I have no ties or specific knowledge of IGC or their policies other than going to camp their for a week 20 years ago. However, I do feel based on what I have seen that they deeply desire change within the sport. They were one of the first sponsors to drop USAG and demand change as all of this broke. And I'm not sure they did know about all of this for years. While they sponsored USAG events, other than inviting current and former athletes to their camp as guest coaches, I'm not entirely sure they had much interaction with the national team staff or the inner workings of USAG. But really, I don't know that. I just know that, with the information I have, I don't have any reason to believe they are acting in any way other than in the best interest of children. And I could absolutely be wrong. I'm not in any kind of inner circle, I don't know any of the people involved, and probably I'm just trying to be optimistic that good things are about to happen.

As I said earlier, I think this particular call on their part is short sighted and misses the mark. I think it is completely appropriate to contact them and let them know about concerns and how this appears to those of us on the outside. I think matters like this, especially at this time, need to be discussed. But, I also worry that vilifying people, places, and organizations that are attempting to advocate for change will only slow progress in the grand scheme of things.
I expect to see all kinds of things, some good and some perhaps a little misguided, coming from people, gyms, and others involved in the sport in the coming months- all coming from a good place of sincerely desiring to protect children- which I think is great. It shows that people care and are trying. There will need to be lots of discussions about what works, what doesn't, what kind of message each proposed idea sends and I think that is great and something that absolutely needs to happen. But I also think that charging full speed ahead at anyone who makes a suggestion we don't agree with or see in a different way will just discourage people from trying at all and I really don't want that.

(GAGymmom- this is absolutely not all directed to you, just some thoughts I've had brewing for a while and just sort of spilled here)

 

[Texasmomof3]

My dd went to camp at Karolyi’s for the first time over six years ago. That summer, two people not in any way involved with gymnastics asked me if i was aware about the verbal abuse issues with Karolyi and USA Gymnastics. My dd met The London team before the olympics and when i posted a picture on social media, several non-Gymnastics people commented about the reputation for athlete abuse in USAG. And when i posted a picture with her and Simone biles over a year before rio, again more than one person asked me if we were aware of the sexual abuse issues in USA Gymnastics. We didn’t know Nasser’s name, but we all knew the rumors.

If a compulsory parent with no Gymnastics connections or background hears about abuse allegations from multiple non-gym sources, I really find it hard to believe so many in the gym world had no idea. Maybe they didn’t know the exact details, but the stories have been out there for years.

 

[profmom]

I'm still waiting to see what they have to say, and I do not see them as Johnny Come Latelies to the concept of athlete safety across the board.

The big question lurking in the background of all of this is what constitutes appropriate workout attire. For going out on the town it's one thing. For going to school I am in favor of gender-neutral standards that do not teach girls that it's their responsibility to keep the boys from being distracted. But for gymnastics training, I don't think a "wear whatever's comfortable" policy makes any sense. On my son's team, occasionally a boy will show up to practice in a pair of loose shorts with pockets because the shorts are more comfortable for the boy than the shorter, lightweight gymnastics shorts they are encouraged to wear. After a few times of having the pockets duct-taped shut or being required to get a random pair out of the drawer of abandoned stuff, they generally get the message.

So what does constitute appropriate workout attire and how do we figure this out? I would argue that a GK butt floss leotard is not appropriate workout attire. Workout attire should be in the background. It should not be something requiring constant adjustment or pulling. It should not be something the athlete is worrying about or even thinking about. To engage this question, I'd encourage trying to take a step back from the competition floor and try to find an environment where people are working out without the spectator element and at a point when they are mature enough to be making their own choices and setting their own standards.



https://www.flogymnastics.com/video/5655180-ucla-gymnastics-in-gym-conditioning-exercises





Notice that the women do not choose leos at all. And notice that the men choose longer shorts than the typical comp gear, though they do wear pommel pants to do pommels. (And yeah the shirtless thing -- my son, who in no way has any investment in showing off his skinny chest, works out shirtless because he says it's more comfortable.)

So I open it to you all. How do we get from the butt floss leotard to this?

 

[txgymfan]

When the team is in matching tanks and shorts, I don’t think they have any choice in what to wear. However, I do like the athletic look of shorts and form fitting tanks or t’s as workout wear.

 

[profmom]

Ok, then, how about this?

 

[MILgymFAM]

I guess I just can’t get past the idea that people are so angry over the idea of shorts being required but haven’t been about the idea of shorts being forbidden. Is it really just tradition so ingrained? If my kids could suck up the current status quo, surely others could get used the change? Yes, I think it should be their choice- to an extent as profmom makes good points- but I just don’t understand the strength of the response. I assumed it was about pictures and about someone having to set a new standard first for it ever to take hold.. I did not take it as victim blaming/shaming.

 

[2G1B]

If we are ok with organizations (many gyms) requiring girls to NOT wear shorts, surely we should be ok with organizations requiring them to wear shorts? Two sides of the same coin IMO. I do agree that the best would be to not mandate it either way and allow girls to wear what is most comfortable for them as long as it is still safe for the activity.

I think IGC has good intentions so I’m not going to pass judgement on their decision but I am not sure this would do anything to prevent abuse. It might be a first small step in changing the culture.

This is a good side point ((I understand it isn't the main issue). For years here on CB, in gyms, etc, parents and girls have expressed concerns about the girls not being allowed to wear shorts. The general response has been that it was FINE for a gym to not allow shorts. Personally, I think that it should be up to each individual girl (this is how it is at my DD's gym, I have never heard of a preference one way or the other from the coaches, it is completely up to each girl). But for years it has been that no shorts as a rule was fine and actually expected at "serious" gyms. And now that a camp is going the other way, saying shorts are required, people are flipping out where they weren't flipping out for years over the "no shorts" rules that have been around for years. And I know that wearing shorts is apparently disliked by some girls; but I can assure you that NOT wearing shorts has been disliked by many girls for ages and there has never been a huge backlash against that (it was always just the way things are).

And if I'm being honest, here is how I see the "optionals shorts for competitions" going. Gyms like my daughter's will likely allow the girls to choose. But the top gyms and the gyms that have been insisting for years that short, even in practice, were a bad idea, they are going to at a minimum convince the girls and parents that while you CAN wear shorts, judges will ding you for it because they don't like it. Either that or it will totally be ignored and a "fake no shorts rule" will come up - you know, the one that goes in the rule book with "no nail polish" and some of the crazy hair "rules" that aren't real, but are still told to parents and gymnasts.

Ultimately, I think that each girl should be able to choose with no pressure either way. I personally plan to give IGC the benefit of a doubt with what their intentions are and assume it is due to photos and possibly protecting coaches from any appearance of an issue during spotting since this will decrease the chances of touching base skin. If they want a shorts required rule girls will manage, just as the girls who would have preferred shorts for years have managed when they weren't allowed.

 

[bogwoppit]

I think it is appropriate for a child/young woman to wear what she is comfortable in. We do not need changes. FIG already allows the wearing of shorts, leggings and modified hijabs, even in competition, for those who wish to cover up more.

But this is not about shorts, it is about thinking that you can solve abuse with more clothing on the victim. The more we make it about shorts and leos the more we miss the big picture.

As with rape, the solution is for rape is for rapists to stop raping people.

 

[gymmomx2]

I think in an ideal world, yes, rapists and abusers should stop raping and abusing. In the real world, there are still things that can be done to minimize the opportunity for abuse. Nassar is just one kind of abuse, there are other kinds such as child pornography that might be helped by a mandatory shorts rule. There is no way to screen every spectator at gyms and competitions. Gymnasts, unlike swimmers and divers, sometimes perform skills/choreo poses that may easily be altered in photoshop for nefarious purposes.

Although FIG may allow it, I bet it wouldn't go over well at most gyms of girls requested to wear shorts with their competition leo. Think of how many gyms don't even allow shorts for training. There's a culture at play that needs to change. Shorts/no shorts may seem like it's missing the mark but it might also be the one thing that starts that cultural change. I choose to believe IGC is trying to do a good thing. Time will tell if it's effective or not.....

That being said, I believe it should be the gymnast's choice, if it is true choice without gym/coach/judge pressure.

 

[gymgal]

So many folks are just talking about the physical abuse portion - what Nassar did - but the soft porn portion is such a biggest issue with this sport. Up to a couple of years ago, these types of photos are being sold on regular ebay disguised as gymnastics stock photos. I think they have cracked down on it quite a bit but you can bet it is still out there, deeper in the web.

I am not in favor of forcing established gymnasts to switch to shorts/leggings if they are not comfortable with that but I do think raising a new generation of gymnasts whose standard uniform is a leo with shorts or leggings is a good idea. No, I don't view this as victim shaming. I view it as providing an extra layer of protection (no, not physical) against porn predators. We protect our kids in various ways against lots of dangers and never once think of our protections as victim shaming. Why do it here, with clothes? And I do think this needs to be sport wide, not individual gyms. It needs to be presented as a universal front

 

[bogwoppit]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/aly...vent-abuse-form-victim-shaming-095809029.html