WAG IGC requiring female campers to wear shorts or leggings

[wandrewsjr]

"International Gymnastics Camp’s concern with the current issues facing USA Gymnastics drives us to take a pro-active approach to ensure gymnastics is a safe sport when it comes to abuse. International Gymnastics Camp is advocating that, across the entire nation, shorts or leggings be worn with leotards during both workouts and junior competitions in the women’s programs. In that regard, and to accelerate this trend for change, IGC is requiring our female campers to wear shorts or leggings during workouts at camp. Thank you for your cooperation."

But haven't they explained why they are doing it in their statement?

 

[Flippin'A]

The full quote was "International Gymnastics Camp's concern with the current issues facing USA Gymnastics drives us to take a pro-active approach to ensure gymnastics is a safe sport when it comes to abuse." I understood the current issues facing USA Gymnastics to be centered on Nassar and the culture of gymnasts not being listened to that allowed him to thrive. If the issue they wanted to address was pictures being used as child pornography then they need to say so, because that's not how their statement reads to the people who are unhappy, Aly included. And honestly, the slippery slope thing isn't my objection, it's the fact that this is just another case of the girls not being given a choice. Give the kids the option, let their parents help the young ones make the decision, fight for your child's right to wear what she or he feels comfortable in as long as it's safe. Again, I don't think any of this was malicious, so don't take this as me saying that there's anything wrong with sending your child to IGC. I just think they missed the mark on this one.

 

[wandrewsjr]

It appears the statement has been removed from the packing list? https://internationalgymnastics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/IGC-2018-Packing-List.pdf

 

[wandrewsjr]

Maybe instead of "Leotards and shorts/leggings, and boys workout clothing (must be worn during all gymnastics classes; fitted workout tees may be worn over leotards)"....just "workout clothing"? Doesn't seem very empowering to specify what girls must wear, but boys get the general "workout clothing".

 

[3rd_time_around]

Ok, then, how about this?

Much more revealing than a tank leotard. This attire is not allowed at our gym. They have to be one-piece, and they wear shorts/leggings/t-shirts/tanks for conditioning.

 

[3rd_time_around]

http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/08/08...leyball-prelim-live-stream-rio-2016-olympics/
This is the uniform for beach volleyball in the Olympics. This photo is from the 2018 Olympics. (Why aren't they wearing shorts?) Please, lets talk about extremely inappropriate. Lets talk about their positions and angles.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/170714642101364089/
This one is for competition dance. Oh my. And they do perform with similar gymnastics positions.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/137711701075572927/
This one is competition cheer. Talk about positions....

Ok, I linked these so you can view if you want to. I did not link them to shame any one or any sport. My point is, that it is a huge double standard to say gymnasts must wear shorts to compete or work out when their comp leos already cover so much more than these uniforms do that I've linked. I'm not condemning these sports/pictures/uniforms, etc., I'm just showing the irony.

 

[Flyaway]

It's a knee-jerk reaction and those rarely fare well.

 

[gymmomx2]

http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/08/08...leyball-prelim-live-stream-rio-2016-olympics/
This is the uniform for beach volleyball in the Olympics. This photo is from the 2018 Olympics. (Why aren't they wearing shorts?) Please, lets talk about extremely inappropriate. Lets talk about their positions and angles.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/170714642101364089/
This one is for competition dance. Oh my. And they do perform with similar gymnastics positions.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/137711701075572927/
This one is competition cheer. Talk about positions....

Ok, I linked these so you can view if you want to. I did not link them to shame any one or any sport. My point is, that it is a huge double standard to say gymnasts must wear shorts to compete or work out when their comp leos already cover so much more than these uniforms do that I've linked. I'm not condemning these sports/pictures/uniforms, etc., I'm just showing the irony.

No one said those are appropriate either Beach volleyball attire regularly gets discussed and during the olympics I heard many men admit to watching due to the skimpy uniform. Perhaps the biggest difference to me is that those are grown women who choose to wear those outfits. I’m not sure what younger kids wear to play, it doesn’t seem like a sport that you get into at a young age.
Around here, cheer uniforms have moved to shorts underneath the skirt, a positive move as far as I’m concerned ( https://instagram.com/p/BgMhk1uFBqX/)
Dance....there are a lot of inappropriate outfits but studios do have leeway in terms of what their students wear. DD’s studio put them in very age appropriate and decent costumes.

 

[2G1B]

I agree that the volleyball uniforms are absurd; but as gymmomx2 mentioned, at least those are women and not children. They really should wear boy shorts or something though, that is just asking for a "wardrobe malfunction". For dance, I often hear people talking about how inappropriate dance costumes are; but I think the difference is that there doesn't seem to be a uniform governing body for dance. For competition cheer they do seem to be going to shorts under the skirts (or some are even just doing shorts or even capris) and I think that only the upper levels are now allowed to wear the crop tops, though some gyms do push it with just putting mesh over the belly and stuff like that.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

So many folks are just talking about the physical abuse portion - what Nassar did - but the soft porn portion is such a biggest issue with this sport. Up to a couple of years ago, these types of photos are being sold on regular ebay disguised as gymnastics stock photos. I think they have cracked down on it quite a bit but you can bet it is still out there, deeper in the web.

I am not in favor of forcing established gymnasts to switch to shorts/leggings if they are not comfortable with that but I do think raising a new generation of gymnasts whose standard uniform is a leo with shorts or leggings is a good idea. No, I don't view this as victim shaming. I view it as providing an extra layer of protection (no, not physical) against porn predators. We protect our kids in various ways against lots of dangers and never once think of our protections as victim shaming. Why do it here, with clothes? And I do think this needs to be sport wide, not individual gyms. It needs to be presented as a universal front

I love this response. I did not see it as a form a victim blaming/shaming either. And honestly with the amount of outrage about the indecency of college leos and how the cut needs to be more modest, I am a little surprised at the current backlash from IGC requesting more coverage.

Why do we complain about the college? What about them makes people uncomfortable and feel they are indecent? I believe it’s because they sexualize the female body. And those cuts on young girls will attract a certain crowd. Perhaps by requiring the shorts or leggings, those few extra inches make them less appealing to pedophiles and do offer protection against their photographs being used as soft porn. It won’t stop every pedophile, but it could discourage some and I’m all for any change that could help discourage them and lessen the amount of photos online. I’m with profmom on allowing them a chance to make a statement. I just don’t think an entire organization should be slammed for wanting to make the uniforms more modest in an attempt to protect our athletes and trying to change the current culture of the sport when that’s what so many have been asking for.

I also don’t think it’s fair to slam IGC for requiring shorts and saying that a girl should be able to wear whatever she wants and then turn around and slam colleges for not being covered enough. So what if a girl prefers those high cut leos? Should she still be allowed to wear them or will we still complain about them and say they should be banned? I don’t think we can have it both ways.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Much more revealing than a tank leotard. This attire is not allowed at our gym. They have to be one-piece, and they wear shorts/leggings/t-shirts/tanks for conditioning.

Crop tops/sports bras and shorts are the standard gymnastics attire in most gyms in Australia.

 

[sce]

I'm still waiting to see what they have to say, and I do not see them as Johnny Come Latelies to the concept of athlete safety across the board.

The big question lurking in the background of all of this is what constitutes appropriate workout attire. For going out on the town it's one thing. For going to school I am in favor of gender-neutral standards that do not teach girls that it's their responsibility to keep the boys from being distracted. But for gymnastics training, I don't think a "wear whatever's comfortable" policy makes any sense. On my son's team, occasionally a boy will show up to practice in a pair of loose shorts with pockets because the shorts are more comfortable for the boy than the shorter, lightweight gymnastics shorts they are encouraged to wear. After a few times of having the pockets duct-taped shut or being required to get a random pair out of the drawer of abandoned stuff, they generally get the message.

So what does constitute appropriate workout attire and how do we figure this out? I would argue that a GK butt floss leotard is not appropriate workout attire. Workout attire should be in the background. It should not be something requiring constant adjustment or pulling. It should not be something the athlete is worrying about or even thinking about. To engage this question, I'd encourage trying to take a step back from the competition floor and try to find an environment where people are working out without the spectator element and at a point when they are mature enough to be making their own choices and setting their own standards.



https://www.flogymnastics.com/video/5655180-ucla-gymnastics-in-gym-conditioning-exercises





Notice that the women do not choose leos at all. And notice that the men choose longer shorts than the typical comp gear, though they do wear pommel pants to do pommels. (And yeah the shirtless thing -- my son, who in no way has any investment in showing off his skinny chest, works out shirtless because he says it's more comfortable.)

So I open it to you all. How do we get from the butt floss leotard to this?

The no shirts is not to show off, it is more comfortable.

 

[profmom]

"International Gymnastics Camp’s concern with the current issues facing USA Gymnastics drives us to take a pro-active approach to ensure gymnastics is a safe sport when it comes to abuse. International Gymnastics Camp is advocating that, across the entire nation, shorts or leggings be worn with leotards during both workouts and junior competitions in the women’s programs. In that regard, and to accelerate this trend for change, IGC is requiring our female campers to wear shorts or leggings during workouts at camp. Thank you for your cooperation."

But haven't they explained why they are doing it in their statement?

Someone, I believe it was John, posted an email from IGC much earlier in this thread in which they said they were going to post a blog about the issue. But perhaps they've gotten so much backlash that they have decided not to go forward with it.

I'd greatly prefer that we NOT go the direction of beach volleyball, and my daughter has gender-related reasons for preferring gym to both cheerleading and dance. Is it too much to hope that elite and college coaches might exercise some leadership here and encourage a wider range of options and possibilities?

I also think that before you dismiss this whole issue entirely, you should do a little searching and see what nasty stuff is out there. I can certainly say that over the past few years, I have become MUCH more conscious about the pictures that I post, even though they are only for friends and family.

(Sigh, sometimes I miss the days when I had a cute little boy who worked out in his huge singlet collection.)

 

[3rd_time_around]

http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/08/08...leyball-prelim-live-stream-rio-2016-olympics/
This is the uniform for beach volleyball in the Olympics. This photo is from the 2018 Olympics.

It really bothers me that I made this typo for the Olympics date, I know it was 2016. I can't change it though, so I just wanted to put this disclaimer.

 

[John]

Here is the email exchange. I suggest everyone who has ideas or thoughts to email IGC camp and be heard. I go to extremes at times because I feel it is sometimes necessary to open eyes and start the conversation. This Camp is top notch and other than a chosen college camp my DD would not attend any other gymnastics camp.

@GAgymmom if someone judges you for a typo in a forum shame on them.

From: IGC Office <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 5:18 PM
To: Faloni, John <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: shorts and leggings


Hello John,


We thank you for your feedback.
We will be putting out a blog next week regarding the decision, and encourage an open discussion on the topic.
Thank you, and have a nice weekend.

Kind Regards,


Carlene Eckhart

International Gymnastics Camp

100 Gymnastics Way, Stroudsburg PA 18360, USA

P: 570-629-0244 F: 570-620-0616

www.internationalgymnastics.com

From: Faloni, John <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 4:24 PM
To: IGC Office <[email protected]>
Subject: shorts and leggings



Today I learned that you were going to require girls to wear shorts or leggings when training. It is not acceptable to blame a child for the abuse thrust on them. What a child wears does not ask for abuse. Will you require wetsuits at the pool? Please if an athlete desires to wear shorts let her, if she desires to train in a leo let her. Stop the abusers, don’t attempt to change our wonderful athletes.


Regards,


John Faloni

 

[mommyof1]

I

So what does constitute appropriate workout attire and how do we figure this out? I would argue that a GK butt floss leotard is not appropriate workout attire. Workout attire should be in the background. It should not be something requiring constant adjustment or pulling. It should not be something the athlete is worrying about or even thinking about. To engage this question, I'd encourage trying to take a step back from the competition floor and try to find an environment where people are working out without the spectator element and at a point when they are mature enough to be making their own choices and setting their own standards.



https://www.flogymnastics.com/video/5655180-ucla-gymnastics-in-gym-conditioning-exercises





Notice that the women do not choose leos at all. And notice that the men choose longer shorts than the typical comp gear, though they do wear pommel pants to do pommels. (And yeah the shirtless thing -- my son, who in no way has any investment in showing off his skinny chest, works out shirtless because he says it's more comfortable.)

So I open it to you all. How do we get from the butt floss leotard to this?

The UCLA workout outfit is nice and sporty, but wouldn't the somewhat loose tank top be a floppy distraction? When my workout involves being upside down, I always choose a tight tank top, bonus points for silicone grip strips in the hem.

I agree that the leotard cuts appear to distract the athletes from their performances. At the ordinary kid (JO/XCel) level, the fact that manufacturers do not offer torso length options and the fact that parents cannot purchase a new leo whenever a child happens to grow (our gym arranges swaps for outgrown leos, but only at the beginning of the season, so kids are stuck with the same size for nine or ten months regardless of growth) make it worse. But unless women's gymnastics gets rid of music and dance elements, I can't see gyms wanting to give up their sparkly leotards.

If shorts or leggings were adopted over or in lieu of leotards, there would still be practical issues to overcome. The ubiquitous and notorious GK warm-up leggings would certainly never work. The girls would spend even more time hiking those things back up than they currently spend adjusting their leos.

 

[reluctant]

The no shirts is not to show off, it is more comfortable.

Does a shirt at least absorb some of the sweat and keep it from flying all over the equipment?

 

[sce]

Does a shirt at least absorb some of the sweat and keep it from flying all over the equipment?

It definitely absorbs some sweat, but I don;t think most boys are so sweaty that it would fly off of them at all. All I know, is that my boy would prefer to work out without a shirt on, especially when it is hot.

 

[sce]

The UCLA workout outfit is nice and sporty, but wouldn't the somewhat loose tank top be a floppy distraction? When my workout involves being upside down, I always choose a tight tank top, bonus points for silicone grip strips in the hem.

I agree that the leotard cuts appear to distract the athletes from their performances. At the ordinary kid (JO/XCel) level, the fact that manufacturers do not offer torso length options and the fact that parents cannot purchase a new leo whenever a child happens to grow (our gym arranges swaps for outgrown leos, but only at the beginning of the season, so kids are stuck with the same size for nine or ten months regardless of growth) make it worse. But unless women's gymnastics gets rid of music and dance elements, I can't see gyms wanting to give up their sparkly leotards.

If shorts or leggings were adopted over or in lieu of leotards, there would still be practical issues to overcome. The ubiquitous and notorious GK warm-up leggings would certainly never work. The girls would spend even more time hiking those things back up than they currently spend adjusting their leos.

Manufactures do offer varying torso lengths, at least GK does. Short and long, as well as the normal length. The reason you can't buy another one mid-season is because the custom garments take a lot of time and ordering just one would coast way more than a bulk order per leo. Each size does fit a range of measurements, so a properly fit leo (not too tight to start with) can handle some stretching as a child grows before it is too small.

And yes, most leggings are not comfortable to work out in, as they would not stay in place. That is one of the reasons girls don't like to wear them to do gymnastics.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

Just saw this released:

https://internationalgymnastics.com/international-gymnastics-camp-mission-statement/