WAG Is it a fear, or mental block, or does it matter?

[SignHere]

My DD is having trouble with her ROBHBLO. She will do it on the tumble track, onto the resi (same height as floor, and really soft and squishy), but not on the floor. She can do ROBH, ROBT, and standing back tucks.

Is it dealt with differently if it is a fear vs. a block? Also, her coaches seem to have just stopped working back tumbling on the floor altogether, and they are only having her work on front tumbling.

She can back tumble on beam and is having no problems on bars or vaults (Tsuk).

 

[LizzieLac]

I am not really sure it matters if you call it block or a fear, although I wonder what your DD feels or thinnks about it. Is she afraid of the skill on the floor or is that she feel liks her form is lacking? What prevents her from doing it on the floor? Feeling she is not executing it correctly, or fear that the floor is harder than the resi mat, etc. and she is afriad to try to land it?

 

[SignHere]

I don't ask her much about it. It's been labelled a block by her coaches, but I find it curious that she will do it on the tumble track and onto the soft mat if it's a block and not a fear. As a non gymnastics coach, but a psychologist , I see this as a fear and would address it differently, more in a fashion of behavioral modification. I would build her confidence step wise beginning with fundamentals of backwards tumbling on floor and then gradually work her up to the skill. However, this does not seem to be the approach her coaches are taking. So I am Wondering and frustrated. I'm also worried, because working more advanced tumbling, although forward , seems counter intuitive to me. I am concerned it will lead to more fears.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

hahahahahahaha. see, folks? a psychologist who is going to learn just how dysfunctional gymnastics is. and you won't find it in a textbook.

Mom, it's vestibular. her coaches are doing precisely what an experienced coach should be doing.

the reason she won't do it on floor is probably because she is fast muscle twitch. when you are in the throes of vestibular problems, being fast twitched exacerbates the fear. usually, they think they will strike their head on the hard surface. illogical to you? yes. illogical to your daughter? yes, also. but doesn't change the fact that her "fear' is real to her and trumps anything you might think you know. tell her coaches to put YOU in a spotting belt and get you up there to do some flip flops and standing backs.

you see, it doesn't matter what you think is rational or not. logical or not. or counter intuitive or not. you're not the one that has to deal with it. your daughter DOES and so does her coaches. this is where you step out and STOP being worried and frustrated. it's not your problem.

and you won't be able to "fix" this problem. and don't bother with using language methods like "behavior modifications". your daughter is a gymnast and not one of Pavlov's dogs. AND she has done nothing wrong or been disobedient in where she would need her behavior modified. and you can't modify vestibular. you're born this way.

you see folks? and you wonder kids that have these issues think that there is something 'wrong' with them or that they have acted badly because no one else in their group has this problem....yet.

and by the way, there are plenty of gymnasts that perform the most difficult froward tumbling that can be done and NEVER do anything backwards. our code allows for this because they know that tumbling in both directions must be near equal in value and within reasonable parameters for gymnastics because the 'powers that be' are fully aware that vestibular issues are 'real'. so then, if you can't go backwards? well then you go forwards.

 

[Amusibus]

Sounds reasonable. Wouldn't it have been nice if the coaches had explained it this way to the gymnast and her mom?

By the way, what is the difference between a fear and a block?

Dunno it was a bit heavy handed, "Pavlov's dogs", etc. If I was the OP I'd be offended. People understand the world the best they can within their own framework of education and experience. She is trying to make sense of the situation. Yours is very different than hers or that of most parents.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i was being humorous. hard to do sometimes in this kind of media. i started with "hahahahahaha". i sincerely was laughing. and not at her...but with her. coaches sometimes treat the kids like they're dogs. yes? i have posted that before?? yes. instead of letting them be who they were supposed to turn out and be, coaches want them to conform to their teaching methods instead of teaching to their capabilities. i once had a Psychiatrist call me who had a niece in gymnastics. his sister's daughter, his niece had this condition. he wanted to know if any of these "other kids" "had ever tried any medications to solve this problem". so you're right, my experience is different on both sides of this issue. and the Doc had me speechless. and we have read countless posts here on this subject matter. coaches that kick them out, sit them out, make them go climb the rope, go condition, yell at them, scream at them, swear at them, make them stay at the event for 2 hours and up until they do it, etc, etc, etc;

to know me is to know that i call out both coaches and parents alike. and i will support both also. so heavy handed? no, wasn't trying to do that.

might be that the coaches didn't explain because coaches steer clear from parents that are psychologists. that's the truth...and i always tell the truth. this issue is obvious and based in human biology. coaches don't even fully understand the problems associated with this condition. coaches don't want to talk about or debate this condition. and especially with a psychologist. coaches have heard the phrase "behavior modification" before. it's frustrating for all.

coaches have heard and know stories how parents ground these kids for this problem. don't let them play with their friends out of gym. and in the worst cases, have heard that they won't feed them after practice. and even take them out of gymnastics for days at a time. this problem can bring the worst out of parents and coaches alike. so again, yep, you're right. my experience is a bit different.

and to Signhere, please don't be offended. i assume that if i don't see 1 message under a posters name that they have been here for awhile and have read a lot of the stuff here. and maybe i assumed wrong. and i was being humorous.

if you want to make yourself nuts try and figure out this issue. this is one of the reasons coaches go nuts. and more so when this condition rears its ugly head...oh say...2 minutes before they step on the competition floor.

ooops...i didn't answer the question. fear and block are synonymous in gymnastics and diving.

 

[LizzieLac]

Dunno, I find this facsinating and admit that I don't understand much, if any of it!

But, can you explain this one? My DD has a teamate who competed BHS on the beam for an entire season. She is 15. She had no falls or scary moments on beam to put the fear in her head, but she is refusing to BHS on the high beam now. She will stand there and stand there, but never go. Coach is frustrated and in my opinion does not handle these instances very well.

I can't understand what is causing this block after a year of competing the skill beautifully with no misses. Isn't she beyond vestibular issue cropping up at 15?

Look forward to your thoughts.

 

[1canadiangymmom]

i was being humorous. hard to do sometimes in this kind of media. i started with "hahahahahaha". i sincerely was laughing. and not at her...but with her. coaches sometimes treat the kids like they're dogs. yes? i have posted that before?? yes. instead of letting them be who they were supposed to turn out and be, coaches want them to conform to their teaching methods instead of teaching to their capabilities. i once had a Psychiatrist call me who had a niece in gymnastics. his sister's daughter, his niece had this condition. he wanted to know if any of these "other kids" "had ever tried any medications to solve this problem". so you're right, my experience is different on both sides of this issue. and the Doc had me speechless. and we have read countless posts here on this subject matter. coaches that kick them out, sit them out, make them go climb the rope, go condition, yell at them, scream at them, swear at them, make them stay at the event for 2 hours and up until they do it, etc, etc, etc;

to know me is to know that i call out both coaches and parents alike. and i will support both also. so heavy handed? no, wasn't trying to do that.

might be that the coaches didn't explain because coaches steer clear from parents that are psychologists. that's the truth...and i always tell the truth. this issue is obvious and based in human biology. coaches don't even fully understand the problems associated with this condition. coaches don't want to talk about or debate this condition. and especially with a psychologist. coaches have heard the phrase "behavior modification" before. it's frustrating for all.

coaches have heard and know stories how parents ground these kids for this problem. don't let them play with their friends out of gym. and in the worst cases, have heard that they won't feed them after practice. and even take them out of gymnastics for days at a time. this problem can bring the worst out of parents and coaches alike. so again, yep, you're right. my experience is a bit different.

and to Signhere, please don't be offended. i assume that if i don't see 1 message under a posters name that they have been here for awhile and have read a lot of the stuff here. and maybe i assumed wrong. and i was being humorous.

if you want to make yourself nuts try and figure out this issue. this is one of the reasons coaches go nuts. and more so when this condition rears its ugly head...oh say...2 minutes before they step on the competition floor.

ooops...i didn't answer the question. fear and block are synonymous in gymnastics and diving.

Will you be my daughters coach please. . Are you just so much more educated, experience or understanding than all the coaches we have had experience with??

 

[SignHere]

Not offended, not at all.

I mean behaviour modification from the point of view of taking baby steps. She will do back hand springs, on floor and beam, but won't flip on floor. She will flip backwards off beam.

I don't ask about it, at the request of her coaches, (who are afraid she will perceive this as 'pressuring' her) , but the little bit she tells me is that she will do a back handspring and try not to touch her hands down. I thought it would make more sense to go back to basics and do drills as if she didn't know how to flip backwards.

Who knows? Maybe that IS happening. I'm just the mushroom who pays the bills. Guess I can stop worrying about the Arabian and the front full I am hearing about. (Shrug).

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Dunno, I find this facsinating and admit that I don't understand much, if any of it!

But, can you explain this one? My DD has a teamate who competed BHS on the beam for an entire season. She is 15. She had no falls or scary moments on beam to put the fear in her head, but she is refusing to BHS on the high beam now. She will stand there and stand there, but never go. Coach is frustrated and in my opinion does not handle these instances very well.

I can't understand what is causing this block after a year of competing the skill beautifully with no misses. Isn't she beyond vestibular issue cropping up at 15?

Look forward to your thoughts.

no, comes and goes their whole career. and especially at 15...ask her why. at her age she'll probably say "i'm stupid". and we have to remind them that they're not.

when they're younger, they'll answer "i don't know". same as stupid cause neither knows. they just know that they're scared. it behooves coaches to sit down with their athletes and explain this part of their anatomy and that this is what is causing their problems and that it will go away eventually. and then come and go occasionally.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Not offended, not at all.

I mean behaviour modification from the point of view of taking baby steps. She will do back hand springs, on floor and beam, but won't flip on floor. She will flip backwards off beam.

I don't ask about it, at the request of her coaches, (who are afraid she will perceive this as 'pressuring' her) , but the little bit she tells me is that she will do a back handspring and try not to touch her hands down. I thought it would make more sense to go back to basics and do drills as if she didn't know how to flip backwards.

Who knows? Maybe that IS happening. I'm just the mushroom who pays the bills. Guess I can stop worrying about the Arabian and the front full I am hearing about. (Shrug).

thank you for not being offended. what'll really get you is when she does something like...arabian double front on floor...but won't flip flop layout (series) on the beam. and we all know that the former is 47675949038577665786997065948378 times harder to do than the latter. that really drives coaches nuts... and it mystifies the casual observers.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Will you be my daughters coach please. . Are you just so much more educated, experience or understanding than all the coaches we have had experience with??

there are more than a few of us that know about this. and thank you. and i hope i'm getting the word out.

 

[Amusibus]

dunno wrote: "coaches have heard and know stories how parents ground these kids for this problem. don't let them play with their friends out of gym. and in the worst cases, have heard that they won't feed them after practice. and even take them out of gymnastics for days at a time."

Woooooaaaahhhhh....... people are nuts!!!!!

 

[profmom]

I know this can happen on different events, but my impression is that beam is the worst. Is that true, and if so, is it because the vestibular issues are magnified when they're on the high beam and thinking about the potential consequences of a fall or miss?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

it usually starts at floor. then bleeds to the other events. on beam, it's not about them falling or missing. they think they are going to hit their head on the beam.

tumbling, they they are going to hit their head on the floor.

bars, they think they are going to hit the bar OR land on their head on the floor.

vault, yurchenkos, they think they will miss their hands or hit their head on the table.

these are the most common.

 

[gymgal]

it usually starts at floor. then bleeds to the other events. on beam, it's not about them falling or missing. they think they are going to hit their head on the beam.

splitting the beam seems to be a pretty big fear too.

Edit: meant to add that I think this is one of the major reasons they have no problem doing skills on the floor beams or beams with mat stacks. Of course, I think this becomes more an issue with the flight skills with faster motion.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

that's MY biggest fear. that's why i don't get up there anymore.

 

[profmom]

Really interesting, thanks! And so even if they can't articulate it as being about a fear of hitting their head, it's the same thing as the feeling that they "can't go" even though they want to and intellectually know that they can do the skills?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you got it!

 

[LizzieLac]

it usually starts at floor. then bleeds to the other events. on beam, it's not about them falling or missing. they think they are going to hit their head on the beam.

tumbling, they they are going to hit their head on the floor.

bars, they think they are going to hit the bar OR land on their head on the floor.

vault, yurchenkos, they think they will miss their hands or hit their head on the table.

these are the most common.

So does that mean vestibular = thinks they will hit their head? I remember you had a post not too long ago about what vestibular was, but I could not find it through search. I googled vestibular and it talked about balance issues (vertigo, inner ear issues, dizziness, etc). Can you refresh us on what you said in that previous post? Thanks!!