WAG Kathy Klages coaching at Twistars!

[Deleted member D3987]

I wonder if he will have a witch hunt to find out who took the pic of the schedule and outed him to the media...

inside job.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

@dunno, if you speak for USAG, you must recognise the severe misjudgements and incompetence at best, and deliberate protection for child abusers at worst, that the organisation has undertaken. There is no excuse for the scale and breadth of abuse. How do you defend them, still? Do you still defend them? And I know you can't necessarily answer this right now, but if you can: will USAG make serious, fundamental, bottom-up reforms to alter this toxic culture and make every attempt to right past wrongs?

i speak for the entire industry.
now, ill try to be as nice as i can. you're from Australia? thanks for the 3 that you sent us.
as for your other rhetoric, you've made judgements/accusations/allegations that you can NOT support with any documentation. now you can shut up. thanks in advance.
as for "deliberate protection of child abusers at worst" there is this. maybe your computer doesn't work to find this. so here it is for you. YEP! sure looks like our "organisation" doesn't give a **** AND protects them.

Name State Violation
Ray Adams FL Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Julian Amaro CA
Charles Theodore Bates MN
James Bell WA
Morgan Bennett TX Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Kristopher Berry SC
Jeffrey Bettman OR Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Steve Biondo LA Code of Ethical Conduct II.F./II.H.
Phillip Bishop MI
Patrick Bogan MD
Douglas Boger CA
Paul Bollinger MD Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Joseph Bowers OH
Shawn Bowlden IL
Bryan Brown IL Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Christopher A. Brown IL/CA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Vince Brown SC
Thomas Burdash KY Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Keith Callen PA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Michael Cardamone IL Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Darin Caviness OH Bylaw 9.2 (a) (i)
Edward Trey Coniff TX
Lyndsey Wesley Cox TX Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
James Craig III CO
Thad Cypher MI
Vannie Edwards AR Bylaw 9.1(c)
Steven Elliott TX
Anthony Engelke PA
Daniel Erb PA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Matthew H. Erichsen WA
Rick Feuerstein CA
Christopher Ford VA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
William Foster AL
Joseph Fountain MD
Neil Frederick MD Bylaw 9.2 (a) (i)
Roy Larry Gallagher PA
Robert Allen (Bob) Garner TN
Sean Gilham CA
Timothy Glas NE
Ricardo “Chico” Goddard NY
Nathaniel Goodale VT Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Marcelo Guimaraes TX
Vernor Gumila IL
Richard Gustafson OR Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Johnny Gutierrez TX Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Paul Hagan MI
Robert Dean Head KY
Ted Hicks TN
Michael Hinton TN
Nicholas Hitchcock MI
Robert Hoefer FL
Frank Hohman, Jr. PA
Milos Hroch CA
Steven L. Infante CT
Faye Lorraine aka Heather Kristian King PA Code of Ethical Conduct II.D./II.F.
Dana Koppendrayer FL
Nolan Knuckles AZ Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Zac Lawson IL Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Jeffrey LeFevre MI Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Ronnie Lewis AR
Jung Min Lim PA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Johnathan Mackie CA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Parker Madison TX Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
William McCabe GA
Dean McCollum CO Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Joel Mertes TX Code of Ethical Conduct II.H.
Jason Miguel Mesa CA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Robert Mollock OR
John S. Moore WV
Gregory Muller ID
William Munsinger MN
William Newcom GA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Jeena Nilson UT
Paul O'Neill CA
Patrick Okopinski WI
Marian Penev NY
William M. Permenter FL
Don Peters CA
Timothy Picquelle CA
Cynthia Posmoga PA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Vincent Pozzuoli CT Bylaw 9.2 (a)
David Pyles AZ
Sandro Ramos OK Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
David Reiakvam CA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Jeffrey Richards FL
Rudy Rodriguez CA
Miguel Rosario NY Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
John H. Row
aka John Howard
aka gymnasticszone.com DE
Gabriel Salazar TX
Adam Savignano NJ Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Mark Schiefelbein TN
Jason Scofield CA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Robert Shawler CA
Steve Shirley MO
Steven Todd Siegel CO
Ronald Smith TX Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Blake Steven Starr UT
Paul Summers OK
Mark Swift FL
Freddie Eugene Tafoya, Jr. CA
Thomas Tellez NY Code of Ethical Conduct II.H.
Jon Oliver Kenneth Thomas VA
Phillip Thompson NC Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Jay Thomas LA
Brian Townsend LA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Brent Trottier WA
Bruce Unger TX Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Jon Valdez IL
Anthony Van Kirk CA
Joel Velasquez OR
David Paul Waage OR
Chris Wagoner TX
Jeremy Waldridge OR
Brooklyn Walters IN
Russell Wallace CT
Steve Waples TX
Donald Watts KY
Patrick Wehrung CA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Mike West WA
Jonathan White CA
Lyf Christian Wildenberg MN
Bill Witthar MO
Joel Woodruff TX
James Woollums AZ Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Daniel Zera NY Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)
Daniel Zmrzel CA Bylaw 9.2 (a) (iii)

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and here is yours. NOWHERE do you have such a list yet you have the same problem as everywhere else. maybe you're all "protectecting" the abusers. eh? or sending them off the GB and Canada. then they work their way here. you're full of crap and lost all credibility with me.
https://www.gymnastics.org.au/

 

[Gymmom0824]

Wow unbelievable! Hopefully just getting the word out about her will
Someday stop horrible person like her from working with gymnasts.

 

[cftmoonlight]

inside job.

As in a staff member? Or team parent? Clearly someone who didn't think it was a good idea.

 

[JessSyd]

and here is yours. NOWHERE do you have such a list yet you have the same problem as everywhere else. maybe you're all "protectecting" the abusers. eh? or sending them off the GB and Canada. then they work their way here. you're full of crap and lost all credibility with me.
https://www.gymnastics.org.au/

We don't need organisations to maintain lists as that is seen as an inadequate response to a serious issue here. The government does that and it is a legal requirement to access that information for all potential employers of people working with children.

Most people who work with children are required by law to report suspected child abuse. You cannot get work (including volunteer work) with children here until you have passed a Working with Children check, which goes through every database in every state looking for reasons why an adult might not be safe to work with children.

The check looks at information about findings of guilt (with or without a conviction), charges that did not result in a conviction, charges that were dismissed, accusations that were investigated but dismissed, pending charges, drug related charges, juvenile records, and apprehended violence orders (restraining orders). If there is any evidence of child related crime, or even multiple unsubstantiated reports (suggesting a pattern), Gymnastics Australia can't employ someone. Maintaining their own list would be an inferior and unnecessary practice.

Creeps do slip through the cracks, of course. An offender won't be on any of those lists until they are caught offending or are accused of offending. But the checks are to make sure that if there is sufficient smoke an individual is not given access to kids. After a huge recent Royal Commission into institutional child sexual abuse (The catholic church, private schools and the scouting organisations came off worst, mostly from events in the seventies and eighties before the mandatory WWC), there is an ongoing national response to strengthen existing protections that have been put into place to prevent any one organisation sweeping things under the carpet in the way organisations have done in the past. And organisations have wholeheartedly come to the party.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I don't know what State in Australia you are from, but in my state we as gymnastics coaches and club owners are not required to report suspected child abuse. Only teachers, doctors, registered nurses, police officers and child care workers are required to do this, not sports coaches.

It's not just organisations that sweep this under the carpet it is parents too. If they have young children they don't want to report it, because they don't want to put their children on the stand. These kids often don't fully understand what happened to them and the parents want to keep them from reliving in the hope they are young enough to forget.

 

[azara]

Thanks @JessSyd for explaining the Australian system far better than I could. I will add that not only must coaches (and everyone working with children) have a WWCC, there is also mandatory training, developed in conjunction with the Australian Sports Commission and its National Coaching Accreditation Scheme i.e. clear guidelines in place, across all sports, all gyms, and at all levels, which define coaching principles. And as @Aussie_coach pointed out, as coaches, we are required to report even a suspicion of abuse. Certainly, it isn't a perfect system, but at least we don't have hundreds of gymnasts sequestered away in the middle of nowhere once a month, with limited contact with parents, travelling solitarily with coaches, and treated alone by a doctor - all the while with no independent body overseeing the policies. Keeping a list of offenders after the fact is all well and good, but where are the proactive policies for protecting children? And I must wonder: with the defensive prevailing attitude, how can genuine change occur? I can only conclude that it will not.

Anyhow, I've said enough on this. I stand fully by my assertion that no defence can possibly excuse the extent of abuse; there are undeniable problems which need to be changed. I don't mean to insult or attack anybody personally, but I have no problem having a go at the system.

For those who are interested in Australian child protection more generally, here are some links:
Mandatory reporting requirements - https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/mandatory-reporting-child-abuse-and-neglect
Working with Children Checks (for NSW, but all states are similar) - Link Removed

That's a very good point, Aussie. I wonder if those attitudes played into the late reporting of some of the Nassar cases.

 

[gymbeam]

I decided to Google someone on that list to see what I could find. Shockingly, the person I googled was charged in 2008 as a gym coach with indecent liberties and then 4 years later charged again at another gym in the same state.

How does that happen???

http://www.wral.com/former-apex-gym-coach-faces-molestation-charges/10766768/

 

[gymbeam]

Here's the 2008 article from the first gym
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2542044/


Was he not "on the list" after the first convictions or is this a case of the second gym not doing their job in checking backgrounds? Does a gym who hires someone with convictions have any liability when they offend again? Was the second gym a USAG gym? So many questions!

 

[Aussie_coach]

@azara iPad autocorrect typo in my post (fixed it now), what I in fact meant to say is that as coaches we are not required to report abuse. The rules vary from state to state, but in my state is is not a requirement unless you are a police officer, medical professional, teacher or child care worker. There is no requirement for coaches or sporting organisations to report suspected abuse. From the link you posted I see that my state is the exception, and other states have far stricter requirements, but it's not fair to say Australia requires this as a country when all states don't.

In the case of Nassar the kids involved are much older and less likely to forget or not realise what has happened to them. But it is a natural inclination for adults to deny these things happen in many cases. You hear "He wouldn't do anything like that, I've known him for years" and the like.

 

[skschlag]

If you read both articles, the second one actually happened first, it just came out later

 

[chalkbowl]

Here's the 2008 article from the first gym
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2542044/


Was he not "on the list" after the first convictions or is this a case of the second gym not doing their job in checking backgrounds? Does a gym who hires someone with convictions have any liability when they offend again? Was the second gym a USAG gym? So many questions!

Only professional USAG members must be background checked. In my experience many gyms do NOT background check their recreational or tumbling instructors, they only background check the team coaches who are attending meets and required to have a USAG professional membership to be on the floor at USAG competitions. My best guess is this guy was not a professional member at the first gym and that the 2nd gym never did any kind of background check on him before he was hired :-/

 

[JessSyd]

Aussie Coach in my state any provider of children's services is a mandatory reporter. In some states every adult is a mandatory reporter.

But that is why I said most adults working with children, rather than all. I know that in your state the list of mandatory reporters is much smaller. But I guess that is where employers and orgs step into the gap, to make sure the information available to the WWC is as comprehensive as possible. Providers like the YMCA and Gymnastics QLD make it a condition of employment/affiliation that alleged child abuse is reported both internally and externally and have a policy around recording the reports and maintaining the flow of information. GymQLD's member protection policy is 58 pages long - it is clear you take it seriously up there.

So it is organisation mandated for QLD clubs rather than legally mandated, but the outcome should be the same - an institutional commitment to not sweeping things under the rug, and more info for the WWC to ensure that the mandatory pre-employment checks are as comprehensive as possible.

 

[azara]

Thanks @Aussie_coach. I was wrong to say that Australia as a whole has those laws (although it should, IMO) but I think the gist remains accurate.

This report: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/27/sports/usa-gymnastics-child-sex-abuse.html?mcubz=0 is a promising step towards change - if the recommended "culture change" actually occurs - but I do wish the USA (and Qld) had the force of the law behind them on this.

 

[chalkbowl]

If you read both articles, the second one actually happened first, it just came out later

In reading both articles more carefully, skschlag is correct. He was hired, working at Sanford Academy, and convicted...before information that children were also harmed at Apex had come out. He was fired from Sanford Academy, for reasons unrelated to the case, and hired at The Gym Company before he was arrested. Therefore he wasn't on the ineligible list nor did he have any sort of record that would show up in a background check until AFTER working at all three of these gyms!

 

[JessSyd]

All National Sporting Associations in Australia are required to have a member protection policy addressing child protection. It is a condition of the sport getting any government funding. Even the small amount Gymnastics gets in Australia.

I have just had a curious look at some of them as until this discussio I had never really considered it for my older child's sport as training always happens out in public, and reporting allegations fairly uniformly seems to be a requirement across the NSOs.

 

[skschlag]

Only professional USAG members must be background checked. In my experience many gyms do NOT background check their recreational or tumbling instructors, they only background check the team coaches who are attending meets and required to have a USAG professional membership to be on the floor at USAG competitions. My best guess is this guy was not a professional member at the first gym and that the 2nd gym never did any kind of background check on him before he was hired :-/

AH, but if something happens, the gym can be held liable. I just read an article about that happening. The gym did not background check a custodian, and then he molested a young girl (lots of extenuating circumstances). The gym was found liable for not checking, and had to pay, eventually declaring bankruptcy. That gym now background checks everyone who works there. Smart practice....

 

[gymbeam]

In reading both articles more carefully, skschlag is correct. He was hired, working at Sanford Academy, and convicted...before information that children were also harmed at Apex had come out. He was fired from Sanford Academy, for reasons unrelated to the case, and hired at The Gym Company before he was arrested. Therefore he wasn't on the ineligible list nor did he have any sort of record that would show up in a background check until AFTER working at all three of these gyms!

Ahhhh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't catch that obviously.

 

[z2akids]

Lists of offenders is certainly a good idea. But, it is more important to have policies in place that require that no adult is ever alonr with a child. That pokicy protects both child and adult.

I kniw we have a couple of young (college) coaches at DD's gym. One of them offered to bring her home one night when I was having carpool issues. I am certain that she was simply trying to be helpful and was young and didn't think about the possible problems with it. But, I had to have a conversation with her about child safety. It simply wasn't on her radar. It should be on all of ours.