Parents L10 gymnast (The Reality Of College Gymnastics)

[gym_dad32608]

This is a bit of a spinoff, but if someone wants to do college gymnastics, how important are camps and how to narrow them down? It would be a big expense for us to do more than two camps that involve travel and given that gymnasts need to target a considerable number of schools....how do other families do this? Can you get a spot on a team without having gone to their camp?

I am sure there are a variety of opinions on camps here. I only see a very small benefit of attending camps. Our gym does not allow (strongly discouraged) athletes to attend camps unless they have been invited. Now there is some benefit to you/gymnast to go to a camp and see the campus, etc. But that would be my expectation. I would not view it as an opportunity to get "noticed" by the staff. So if you are interested in a university and want just see the campus, sure?

 

[Leo7]

Thanks, this is very helpful. This seems to go counter to other advice I've been hearing, which is that camps are very important, even for girls in younger grades who can't yet be contacted by coaches. I'd be glad if camps aren't important, as it seems financially and logistically challenging to get to them in the midst of an already busy summer.

 

[gymgal]

Thanks, this is very helpful. This seems to go counter to other advice I've been hearing, which is that camps are very important, even for girls in younger grades who can't yet be contacted by coaches. I'd be glad if camps aren't important, as it seems financially and logistically challenging to get to them in the midst of an already busy summer.

College camps seem to help the middle-tier gymnasts who are not getting to nationals or whose gyms are not having recruiters visit (so not being seen) but who have high level skill sets to offer. It increases their chances of getting noticed. But as you say, they are expensive so you want to choose wisely. Narrow it down to 1 or 2

 

[Gigi]

Based on our experiences, there is no point in attending college camp until level 10 or at least competed Level 9, for recruiting purposes. At lower levels, you attend for fun, new friends, get a feel of campus, team, the gym, dorm, general location and the city but you likely won't have much interaction with the head coach. I think camp is critical in getting recruited unless you are Level 10 Nationals top placements. They go to Nationals and some Regionals with a list of gymnasts they already have in mind so even if you are really good, you still may be overlooked. It's expensive, sadly. Maybe you can make it into a vacation combo.

 

[MuggleMom]

So just came across this and found it interesting and perhaps pertinent. I think a D1 college experience is much less achievable in all sports than star eyed parents think. I know gymnastics isn’t included (probably cause it’s primarily a “club” sport and this is HS participants used for the statistics) but I still find it interesting.

 

[Solid444]

I have looked at all of that. Both of my girls were level 7 by age 9 and 4th grade. One daughter was even in a crazy HOPES track homeschool for two years that did not pan out at all because we have no TOPS or HOPES over here. They were very good level 7s too and caught on to bars very quickly. I know that might not sound very impressive, but the potential really is or was there. There is just no excuse for what is going on over here beyond unstable gyms.

I have looked at all of that. Both of my girls were level 7 by age 9 and 4th grade. One daughter was even in a crazy HOPES track homeschool for two years that did not pan out at all because we have no TOPS or HOPES over here. They were very good level 7s too and caught on to bars very quickly. I know that might not sound very impressive, but the potential really is or was there. There is just no excuse for what is going on over here beyond unstable gyms.

I had been following along but picked back up late so my apologies.

After reading this thread, I’m understanding the lack of resources in your area but I do have a question for you.

You stated above that one of your daughters was a stand-out level 7 and was on the crazy Hopes track/training Hopes track for 2 years yet you repeatedly argued that your now Level 8 daughter shouldn’t have to compete against girls who were on the Hopes track

Can you see how the lines can get blurred and see how hard it could be to exclude those Hopes girls…who technically aren’t elite?

@gym_dad32608 kept reminding you of this point but you kept repeating how unfair it was that your Level 8 daughter has to compete with girls training Hopes yet later you admit that your daughter was also training for Hopes for 2 years.

Would it have been ok to exclude her from competing DP while she was training for Hopes?

And for clarification training and qualifying Hopes does not make a girl an elite gymnast. In fact most won’t go on to qualify elite as there are roughly 30-40 girls who do annually with about 20 being repeat qualifiers over a 4 year cycle.

You admitted that perhaps you were being emotionally reactive and after reading the obstacles your area has faced in the gymnastics world I can truly understand. It’s just important we don’t project those emotional reactions to our girls by seeking exclusion just the same as you wouldn’t have wanted exclusion for your daughter while she was on the Hopes track.

I wish you guys luck on building your program and pray your area get the resources that are needed.

 

[LJL07]

I had been following along but picked back up late so my apologies.

After reading this thread, I’m understanding the lack of resources in your area but I do have a question for you.

You stated above that one of your daughters was a stand-out level 7 and was on the crazy Hopes track/training Hopes track for 2 years yet you repeatedly argued that your now Level 8 daughter shouldn’t have to compete against girls who were on the Hopes track

Can you see how the lines can get blurred and see how hard it could be to exclude those Hopes girls…who technically aren’t elite?

@gym_dad32608 kept reminding you of this point but you kept repeating how unfair it was that your Level 8 daughter has to compete with girls training Hopes yet later you admit that your daughter was also training for Hopes for 2 years.

Would it have been ok to exclude her from competing DP while she was training for Hopes?

And for clarification training and qualifying Hopes does not make a girl an elite gymnast. In fact most won’t go on to qualify elite as there are roughly 30-40 girls who do annually with about 20 being repeat qualifiers over a 4 year cycle.

You admitted that perhaps you were being emotionally reactive and after reading the obstacles your area has faced in the gymnastics world I can truly understand. It’s just important we don’t project those emotional reactions to our girls by seeking exclusion just the same as you wouldn’t have wanted exclusion for your daughter while she was on the Hopes track.

I wish you guys luck on building your program and pray your area get the resources that are needed.

I think what I wrote was misleading. It is a really long and convoluted story. My daughter who just competed level 8 at regionals never trained or was in any way involved with the HOPES program.

My older daughter was in a "fast track homeschool program." The woman running it promised that she was going to build a TOPS and/or HOPES program. To make a very long story short, that woman had all coaching privileges revoked by USAG. Her homeschool was a disaster. The girls who were very young were not treated well, and that is putting it nicely. So my older daughter trained many hours on level 4 as a 7/8 year old and then she skipped from level 4 to 7. She did fantastic on 7 because she has natural talent on the bars, but the whole process was ridiculous. They spent the whole year perfecting level 4 with little to no uptraining. Then they spent the whole year polishing 7 with no uptraining. So she could hardly have done any kind of HOPES. The coach could not get anyone past 8. They all started mentally breaking down on 8 going from a front handspring vault to flipping a yurchenko with lots and lots of yelling and punishment. Literally everyone and I mean everyone quit except my girls. My older daughter is just really, really strong-willed, and I think the younger one was too young to have gotten much of the poor treatment.

My kids have not gotten anything resembling the type of consistent and stable training that kids who are truly on the HOPES track have received, so I feel like my post was misleading. I guess what I meant is that in terms of natural ability, both of my girls (and certainly a few others) had the potential to train for or do HOPES if they had had the proper coaching.

I apologize if this sounds defensive. That is not my intent. Yes, I am emotionally reactive because my older one in particular has had a terrible time. Our gym saga has been nothing short of disappointing and bizarre. Really the whole story is so nutty that it isn't believable. We are now at a gym that is trying to build a program that is different from everything around here. That is why I have been so vocal. But honestly, a gym needs to produce a level 10 before they produce a HOPES athlete, right??

 

[Muddlethru]

It looks like D3 has gotten pretty competitive too and requires making it to nationals etc. Is that incorrect?

I wouldn’t be surprised if some D3 gymnasts have made nationals. But I still don’t think it is a “requirement”.

My daughter will be a senior next year. So I’ve been out of the loop for a while now. But I know the seniors in her club team the past 2-3 years have made it to D3 teams and they never qualified to nationals.

There were 4 lower ranked D1 teams that were interested in my daughter (thanks to me getting her on coaches radars when she 12 and a Level 10-haha!); and I don’t think they checked her scores or they would have dropped her. She did not have one good year her entire L10 JO career due to injuries. I think they relied solely on the videos we sent and their conversations with her. Two invited her on an official visit, one offered her a walk on and the other one dropped her. Making nationals or getting the high scores is only one aspect the coaches look at.

 

[Gymnastics_parent]

Some interesting data that may help everyone understand the likelihood of gymnasts competing in college. Please note that this is for active gymnasts (commits for graduation years 2022, 2023)

Commit by Region

Commit by State

 

[gym_dad32608]

Some interesting data that may help everyone understand the likelihood of gymnasts competing in college. Please note that this is for active gymnasts (commits for graduation years 2022, 2023)

Commit by Region
View attachment 8313

Commit by State
View attachment 8314

This is great! If just from an academic discussion standpoint. Where is this data from?

 

[gymgal]

It looks like D3 has gotten pretty competitive too and requires making it to nationals etc. Is that incorrect?

I wouldn’t be surprised if some D3 gymnasts have made nationals. But I still don’t think it is a “requirement”.

I am now thinking I misunderstood LJL07. I thought they were asking whether D3 meets are getting more competitive. I now see they could have meant the recruiting end. In that case, No, most D3s do not make it to nationals, at least not in the competitive regions. Now that Nationals has specialists again, you may see this changing a little. Most do make it to regionals, either as AA or specialists. D3 recruiting is getting more competitive but there are enough spots out there that if a L10 gymnast really wants to compete, has a good attitude and direction, and cast a wider net, they can find a team. The bigger question is how affordable is it and is it worth it educationally. That's an individual decision and based on the schools you choose and your goals. dd could have had offers for several walk on spots at D1s if she cast a wider net and was ok with being half way (or all the way) across the the country. She wasn't ok with that so she looked to D3

 

[josie55]

Some interesting data that may help everyone understand the likelihood of gymnasts competing in college. Please note that this is for active gymnasts (commits for graduation years 2022, 2023)

Commit by Region
View attachment 8313

Commit by State
View attachment 8314

That is interesting, but also kind of depressing!

 

[Gymnastics_parent]

It is just the reality of sports, very few are rewarded with a scholarship. My position has always been that scholarships should not be the goal. Too many things can happen along the way in gymnastics (they need to stay healthy and continue to love the sport). Also, gymnastics is expensive, over the lifetime of an athlete you spend nearly as much as paying college tuition. Do the math; classes, travel, leos, music, commute for 13-15 years. If it is just about competition and being part of a team, college clubs are a great option if scholarships are not a reality. In fact, I can make an argument that club athletics may be better because it allows them to focus on academics and the college experience. Isn't this the real goal, academics, education, preparation for life and success?

 

[Gymnastics_parent]

After thinking about the data a bit, the numbers are probably a bit low because the total athletes are all level 10s but commits are only 2022/2023. I will provide an update on the numbers for only athletes who are eligible.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

After thinking about the data a bit, the numbers are probably a bit low because the total athletes are all level 10s but commits are only 2022/2023. I will provide an update on the numbers for only athletes who are eligible.

I was going to ask about that. I know in my state there were only 81 level 10s at the state meet this year. Of course a lot of level 10s were probably injured or missed due to illness. Or maybe didn't qualify. I'm not sure if the numbers were for this season, but the chart had 123 total for my state, with 18 committed. Just counting those at state meet that were in SRA-SRC which I believe compromise the juniors or seniors, there were 42. And I personally know several of the juniors that recently received offers that probably weren't included in the 18 number. So I think the percentage is quite a bit higher than the 18% reported for NC. Interesting numbers though and I look forward to seeing the chart once it is updated.

Oh and I agree about not chasing scholarships as the goal of gymnastics . That's definitely not why my daughter is still in the sport.

 

[Gymnastics_parent]

I was going to ask about that. I know in my state there were only 81 level 10s at the state meet this year. Of course a lot of level 10s were probably injured or missed due to illness. Or maybe didn't qualify. I'm not sure if the numbers were for this season, but the chart had 123 total for my state, with 18 committed. Just counting those at state meet that were in SRA-SRC which I believe compromise the juniors or seniors, there were 42. And I personally know several of the juniors that recently received offers that probably weren't included in the 18 number. So I think the percentage is quite a bit higher than the 18% reported for NC. Interesting numbers though and I look forward to seeing the chart once it is updated.

Oh and I agree about not chasing scholarships as the goal of gymnastics . That's definitely not why my daughter is still in the sport.

Here are the 2022 / 2023 numbers. The number of gymnasts is based on simple rule for "Active", basically, competed in the last year and in the graduating year. The assumption is that there are some injured gymnasts who have not competed recently.

NC - 52 with 18 commits - 34.62% commit rate. Our state is much lower.

By Region

By State

 

[Leo7]

Thank you for this. I’m new to thinking about college gymnastics. “Commits” includes people who have been offered and accepted a walk-on spot? And do walk-on spot offers happen junior or senior year? (I was thinking senior year but I don’t know). If so, do you have that data just for the 2022s?

 

[Gymnastics_parent]

Thank you for this. I’m new to thinking about college gymnastics. “Commits” includes people who have been offered and accepted a walk-on spot? And do walk-on spot offers happen junior or senior year? (I was thinking senior year but I don’t know). If so, do you have that data just for the 2022s?

It is not always clear is a commit is scholarship or walk-on but this data it includes both. I will post 2022 a bit later today. As you may imagine, the rates are higher because colleges finalizing their rosters and athletes graduating.

 

[Gymnastics_parent]

I hope this provides a little more optimism about college gymnastics.

2022 L10 Numbers

By Region

By State

 

[Leo7]

Thank you, this is very helpful. (And like you said, more optimistic!)