Parents L6 weeding out?

[gymgal]

In a couple weeks my DD will do her 1 and only Level 6 meet! She has been dreading it! They have been told so many horror stories about Level 6 that she is more than a little worried! Plus she is doing it in 2 weeks as well as just now learning the routines! She has not done compulsaries for 2 years now.(X-Cel). Should be fun to watch! NOT!

If she has been doing well in platinum now, she should have no problem. Make sure she knows, it's not about getting a high score. She just needs to get the minimum (whether that is 31 or other number preset by the gym). Dd scored out of 5 and 6 just before her platinum year and did fine (and we are in a tough scoring state)

 

[Gymmommy71]

I agree w/ the poster who said all of the 9.5's in L4 may be contributing to the disillusionment in L6 the first time a kid sees a 7 come up when they did what they felt was a good routine.

And it's not really a bad idea to gradually work up from scores in the 3's and 4's in L3/L4 to 9's and 10's in L9/L10...I actually like that idea ...

 

[beamer]

There have been many great points made here! I love it!

DD's gym does not skip L6 and, in fact, has many a talented gymnast repeat the level. My modestly talented -- but seriously gymnastics-loving -- DD will be a prime candidate for a repeat. The girls whom I have seen repeat always seem to arrive at optionals with much more confidence and polish. I know it would be good for her. On the other hand, she is desperate to get to optionals, has a mobility score and, in my dream world, she would move to the new L6 and get the heck out of this level...and leave compulsory gymnastics in the rearview mirror. Then the gym can work with what she's got and repeat her in optionals until the cows come home!

Strangely, her bars have come a long way...to the point where even at the picky-judging meets she is scoring in the low to mid 8s. But as soon as that happened, the walkover on beam went MIA! Sigh. At a recent state qualifier, her face went gray before beam (heretofore her best event). We could actually see the color drain from her face as she waited to compete. My husband turned to me and said, "I hate this sport." I think what he meant was that he hates being a "spectator" of this sport, but still his point was well taken. She missed the walkover (both feet) and the state qualification.

I like Aussie Coach's point about scoring consistently across the compulsory levels and, as another poster pointed out, even from meet to meet. On the other hand, we just attended a great invitational in which the L6 scoring was -- for lack of a better term -- very friendly. Even though DD was in her usual place near the bottom, it certainly made her feel a million times better to not get tenth-ed to death!

 

[maryRS]

I have to agree with this from what I see. It seems that for some bars can be a real sticking point. Level 6 bars seem to up the ante a bit. I think weaker bar worker (with kips) can muddle through level 5 and maybe not rock it, but can get by sufficiently. I think level 6, your bars have to be much cleaner to score fairly well. At least that has been our experience and what I've observed.

I also think the back walkover on beam is a dealbreaker for some because it is where a lot of fears come into play.

Bars weeds people out. It's all strength, timing and technique. A lot of gymnasts are behind on this in Level 4 & 5. By the time they get to Level 6, it's next to impossible to catch up and be ready for the big skills that follow.

But really it's all just the nature of the sport. It's not easy!!!

 

[sglemon]

I'm glad that our gym only does one meet at level 6. We watched a friend of ours from another gym gut her way through level 6 this past season and I felt really bad for her. She is a talented gymnast, but because of the pickiness (for lack of a better word) of level 6, she saw some really low scores and I think it is going to take a while for her to get her confidence back. I agree with one of the posters who said it should be a little more consistent all the way through the levels. Seems like level 6 hits some kids like a slap in the face...

On a slightly separate note, what do you all think of the cast requirements for the new level 5? I know that score-wise it will be better, but is it a good idea to not increase cast/clear hip requirements when the ultimate goal for them in the not so distant future is to get the cast/clear hip up to handstand? Isn't it a different motion to get it up to handstand, especially on the clear hip? Just thinking out loud...

But yes, back to the original post--level 6 is a bear in our region, and I'm sure it does weed people out.

It is being increased, currently, level 4/ new level 3, is a cast, current level 5/ new level 4 is a cast to horizontal and old level 6/ new 5 is cast above horizontal. There is nothing saying you can't cast above 30 degrees. In the end the best bar scores usually come from the girls that can cast above the requirement.

 

[Quadqueen]

I think the poster was implying that removing the cast requirements @ new L5 next year might be doing a disservice to those kids, who may have a harder time progressing on to cast handstands, etc. Of course the girls can cast higher than required, but those aren't the girls who may see their progress stalled.

 

[Aussie_coach]

It just doesn't have to be this way. In Australia level 6 is a great level. We look forward to having our kids reach this level. It is a transitional level between compulsary and optional type skills.

our level 4-6's all have optional routines but they must contain compulsary skills. Level 6 is a lot more open and the compulsary skills are far more broad. Kids can start catering to their own gifts while still fulfilling important criteria. They can have up to 4 bonus skills in each routine, each adding a little to the score.

 

[LizzieLac]

It just doesn't have to be this way. In Australia level 6 is a great level. We look forward to having our kids reach this level. It is a transitional level between compulsary and optional type skills.

I have to agree. We just don't have this kind of angst at our gym, nor in our state, about level 6 from what I can tell. I am sure there are kids that have a hard time scoring 9s, but there are other kids that don't. And that seems no different than what happens at levels 4 and 5. There seems to be low scores (30s/31s) and high scores (36s/37s and up) in all compulsory levels at the meets that we go to.

 

[sglemon]

My limited experience with level 6, comes from watching the girls who competed level 3 on up with my older dd. I find the girls that were technically strong, great form in level 4, continue to score as well in level 5 and 6. A level 6 who scores 9.7 on beam and floor, scored 9.7 s on beam and floor and level 4 and 5. The exception in vault. But like every season, you end the previous season on a high note, just to start over again, and build up in the new season and level.

the opposite happens too, girls with form issues in level 4 and 5 really struggle in level 6 where form is scored more harshly.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

...because L6 sucks.



No...L6 just sucks.



L6 is a really good level to skip.

hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! preach baby, preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dmytv]

level 6 is a good level to skip because it has a dead end dimount on beam, the angles on bars are stupid w/out giants and floor has silly dance. We do xcel instead of 6. hope this is fixed w/ new cycle.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

Great points! As long as it is across the board, it is all relative. And as long as the coaches/gymnasts have numbers to strive for (L4, a *.* is what you are striving for), the motivation is still there. The more I think about it, the more I like it... Do other countries score this way? If so, why don't we?

Sent from my ADR6400L using ChalkBucket mobile app

Well here in Ontario, Canada thus far there are no "compulsory" levels at all. But each province is different so I can really only talk about Ontario. Which bothers me a lot that there really is no true National system.

5 and 6 year olds can ONLY compete in the ODP skills, which are very similar to the TOPS program. Pushups, handstands, shuttle run, leg raises, etc.

Then we have a level system from 2 to 9. 7 and 8 year olds can only compete to the level of their age. They also don't truly compete against anyone, they compete for scores and a certificate with a gold, silver, bronze or merit sticker for each event and all around. So if their score is between a certain range, they get the corresponding sticker.

levels 2, 3 and 4 only compete at Invitational meets. Then from level 5 to 9 girls who are 9 years old can begin competing in the provincial qualifying system, where they do 3 qualifying meets, and the top 32 girls at each level/age division go on to the Provincial Championships.

Each level has it's own set of required elements on each event, but there is no set routine that all girls do the same. Although at level 5, every bar routine is pretty much identical.

We also use the scoring where there is a D score and an E score but I'm not really sure what it's called, but it's like they do at the Olympics, not the perfect 10 system.

AND all this being said, starting next year (the fall) we are switching our system again to align with what the US is doing. But no one knows if the 7 and 8 year old system will remain as ours is, if we will now have compulsory routines or what will happen.

 

[mariposa]

I think it depends on the region/state. I didn't notice anything different about judging between level 5 and 6. At level 5, my DDs scores were typically 9s on all vault, beam and floor and high 8s with an occasional 9 on bars. At level 6, she scored similarly, except that she stayed in the mid to high 8s on bars (she can't do straight body cast HS, so she rarely got the cast requirements). The girls getting 9+ at level 6 here are doing cast handstand and clear hip to almost handstand.

As to the cast handstand requirement in the new level 5 possibly doing a disservice to girls going to optionals, I disagree. My kiddo can't do straight body cast handstand (well, she can, but she can't connect it to a kip). She is now a level 7 and she can do straddle cast handstand, which works much better for her. So not sure that it will matter. My kiddo had nice and clean, connected level 6 bars, but she never made the required cast angles, so was always in the mid to high 8s. She hasn't competed level 7 yet, but I do think she will be able to get 9s at level 7 bars next year because she has nice form on bars and she hits her handstand with the straddle cast handstand.

 

[Quadqueen]

I think it depends on the region/state. I didn't notice anything different about judging between level 5 and 6. At level 5, my DDs scores were typically 9s on all vault, beam and floor and high 8s with an occasional 9 on bars. At level 6, she scored similarly, except that she stayed in the mid to high 8s on bars (she can't do straight body cast HS, so she rarely got the cast requirements). The girls getting 9+ at level 6 here are doing cast handstand and clear hip to almost handstand.

As to the cast handstand requirement in the new level 5 possibly doing a disservice to girls going to optionals, I disagree. My kiddo can't do straight body cast handstand (well, she can, but she can't connect it to a kip). She is now a level 7 and she can do straddle cast handstand, which works much better for her. So not sure that it will matter. My kiddo had nice and clean, connected level 6 bars, but she never made the required cast angles, so was always in the mid to high 8s. She hasn't competed level 7 yet, but I do think she will be able to get 9s at level 7 bars next year because she has nice form on bars and she hits her handstand with the straddle cast handstand.

That's my DD too. She was close with a straight body cast-handstand, but she has essentially stopped working them because she's now working on L7 skills and she can do straddle-cast handstand much better. But, some gyms don't allow straddle-cast handstands (from what I have read on CB).

 

[Gymmommy71]

As to the cast handstand requirement in the new level 5 possibly doing a disservice to girls going to optionals, I disagree. My kiddo can't do straight body cast handstand (well, she can, but she can't connect it to a kip). She is now a level 7 and she can do straddle cast handstand, which works much better for her. So not sure that it will matter. My kiddo had nice and clean, connected level 6 bars, but she never made the required cast angles, so was always in the mid to high 8s. She hasn't competed level 7 yet, but I do think she will be able to get 9s at level 7 bars next year because she has nice form on bars and she hits her handstand with the straddle cast handstand.

My DD is also much better at straddle casting out of a kip...and you aren't allowed to do the straddle way in L6.

Hopefully being able to straddle cast instead of straight body will significantly help her bars if she goes to optionals next year...

From what I've seen, a mid to high 8 will get you top 3 no question on L6 bars...your DD must have amazing bars to get scores like that w/o hitting the 30 degrees...she must be doing everything else pretty near perfect ...

 

[mimi]

That is interesting about the straight vs. straddle. I hadn't thought about that. My dd can do a kip cast to handstand, but only off of a straddle. It seems like the majority of the optional routines I have seen use the straddle. And most of the college girls seem to straddle too. Interesting...I wonder why they don't allow it as an option in 6?

QUOTE=Gymnastx2;222522]That's my DD too. She was close with a straight body cast-handstand, but she has essentially stopped working them because she's now working on L7 skills and she can do straddle-cast handstand much better. But, some gyms don't allow straddle-cast handstands (from what I have read on CB).[/QUOTE]

 

[littlegirlsdream]

Hmmm were my DD has had meets mid to high 8s, in her age category almost never are in the top 3. Odd how it differs so much.

 

[Quadqueen]

We occasionally see low 9s on L6 bars, but high 8s mean you did a pretty good routine around here. My DD once placed 5th on L6 bars with a high 7!!

 

[Lucy's Mom]

I didn't read everything. But here's my opinion... Every level "weeds out" gymnasts. There are less and less as the levels get higher. It's crazy how many rec kids there are compared to level 10s.

 

[Kiwi]

Do other countries score this way?

In New Zealand we have a relatively new system called Steps. Before that we used the Australian levels system. Steps judging is based on FIG and is pretty harsh from step 1 and gets harder as you go up each step. There is a D (difficulty) score and E (execution) score. If you don't meet the technical requirement of an element you lose difficulty value of the element, usually 0.5. The D score in compulsory steps is out of 5, E score out of 10, so total score is out of 15.

Because the Steps system is quite new, each year changes are made to try to improve the system and iron out problems. For example, the qualifying score to move up for compulsory steps was 52 AA (twice, i.e. at two competitions), this was lowered to 50 AA because scores were lower than expected and hardly anyone would have qualified to move up. In the first year of Steps, step 3 bars had two casts to horizontal - bar scores were very low because if the gymnast was a fraction below horizontal on both casts they lost DV of 0.5 twice plus 0.3 connection value. The system has since been changed to allow a little leeway on some of these DVs, e.g. if they were within 10 degrees of horizontal they would get the DV but get a 0.1 or 0.3 deduction on the E score.

Hardly anyone scores 14's here (which would be like 9's in the US), only the top gymnasts performing excellent routines. Anything in the 13s is a really good score, scores in the 12s are okay. Scores in the 10s and 11s are not good but are not uncommon, particularly on beam and bar where you can easily be deducted a lot on both D score and E score.

The Steps system was designed to try to keep gymnasts in the sport for longer, but it concerns me that it might end up having the opposite effect by discouraging gymnasts out of the sport. I understand the need for gymnasts to have solid skills before moving up, but I've seen reasonably competent routines receive quite low scores. It is easy to blame the judges but I think it is more that the system is very tough. I like the FIG-based judging system and just think there needs to be a good balance with the technical requirements and the qualifying scores so that competent gymnasts don't fail to qualify because of being judged very harshly for small mistakes.

I agree with those who said gymnasts drop out at each level, that seems to happen here too. Sorry this post ended up so long!