WAG Level 7 beam 'up to level'

[munchkin3]

Im starting to worry that the new 'up to level' is going to be harder for level 7 than the requirements.....
Level 7 series can be BWO BWO etc......im seeing A LOT of girls do a BWO-BHS, or BHS- BHS etc....

with a clean basic requirement L7 routine, with a stand alone BHS, will this work nowadays??? Or must a gymnast have a 'closer to 8' routine to score well?

One of our coaches was telling us Yurchenkos at L8 is crazy (back in his day) This sport is getting harder and harder!!

 

[QueenBee]

I didn't think there was an "up to level" requirement in Level 7. Level 7 doesn't have compositional errors (to my knowledge).

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Unless something has recently changed I don't believe there are any up to level deductions until L8. We have L7's that do CW/RO and win or place on the podium in beam all the time.

 

[munchkin3]

so Level 7 bars with no giants will not be subject to the 'up to level' rule?

 

[cadybearsmommy]

It shouldn't be as long as there is another skill they are using to fulfill the requirements like a clear hip.

 

[fuzi]

There are no compositional deductions for level 7.

 

[Gymmommy71]

There is none of the "up to level" stuff in L7. It doesn't start till L8. There is no such thing as a "no giant" deduction for L7 bars.

 

[QueenBee]

It would be surprising in our neck of the woods for someone to win beam with a BWO BWO series and a separate BHS as opposed to a routine that has a BWO BHS or BHS BHS but only because there are just more deductions that can happen on the first routine, not because the first routine isn't "up to level". Fewer skills that complete the routine requirements usually means fewer deductions to be taken.

Edited to Add: The bar routine without giants wouldn't be receiving a lower score because no giants. But I've seen very few "no giant" bar routines in Level 7 which had strong cast handstands. I think those routines are being hit usually on the handstand amplitude deductions and the free hip angle deductions. Simply put, Level 7 "no giant" routines are usually weaker routines in general.

 

[Natasha]

Level 7 is still all about getting used to optional level competition. There are only execution deductions, no composition deductions of any kind. As long as the 4 special requirements are met on each event and then correct number of A/B skills, the cleanest routine should score the best.
However, keep in mind, some gyms will have the philosophy of competing the harder skills to get the experience to be more prepared for the next level.

 

[Natasha]

And, FYI, the "up to level" is not a new deduction. The only thing that changed is that they put in some specific examples for beam for L8 to try to get a little more uniform of a deduction for this rather than it varying so much depending on state/region/size of meet, etc. No examples or specifics have been published for the other events or other levels, only discussions at meetings.

 

[LizzieLac]

But don't forget that skills that don't achieve the SR will lower the start value. A split jump on beam not to 180 degrees won't classify as a "B" skill, for example, so the routine may not start with a 10.o0 SV.

 

[LJL07]

It would be surprising in our neck of the woods for someone to win beam with a BWO BWO series and a separate BHS as opposed to a routine that has a BWO BHS or BHS BHS but only because there are just more deductions that can happen on the first routine, not because the first routine isn't "up to level". Fewer skills that complete the routine requirements usually means fewer deductions to be taken.

Edited to Add: The bar routine without giants wouldn't be receiving a lower score because no giants. But I've seen very few "no giant" bar routines in Level 7 which had strong cast handstands. I think those routines are being hit usually on the handstand amplitude deductions and the free hip angle deductions. Simply put, Level 7 "no giant" routines are usually weaker routines in general.

Are you saying that the bwo bhs tends to get less deductions bc it's fulfilling both the series and acro requirement at the same time? my daughter is doing the bwo bwo series with 2 foot bhs back tuck dismount. So far it's actually scoring well, but I wondered if bwo bhs for the series would score higher since it's a more difficult series.

I haven't seen any level 7 bar routines without giants.

 

[QueenBee]

Are you saying that the bwo bhs tends to get less deductions bc it's fulfilling both the series and acro requirement at the same time? my daughter is doing the bwo bwo series with 2 foot bhs back tuck dismount. So far it's actually scoring well, but I wondered if bwo bhs for the series would score higher since it's a more difficult series.

I haven't seen any level 7 bar routines without giants.

I am saying that 2 skills (bwobhs or bhsbhs) will usually get fewer deductions because there is [theoretically] less to deduct on 2 skills rather than 3 skills. As an example: if you have leg issues (bent knees, flexed feet, etc) - you could get 3 deductions on leg shape doing BWO BWO and then BHS separately (leg deductions being given on each skill) but would only get 2 leg shape deductions if your series & acro are combined because you are only doing 2 skills, rather than 3.

It has nothing to do with difficulty (necessarily). It has everything to do with the fact that ever move you make on the beam can lead to a deduction. The fewer skills needed to fulfill the requirement should logically lead to fewer deductions.

The highest scoring beam routines we saw in level 7 were also the shortest. Mount, some dance/pose, full turn, leap series, some more dance, and then usually the series (bwobhs or bhsbhs) was connected to the dismount. Around 45 seconds total - well under total allowed time.

 

[3rd_time_around]

But don't forget that skills that don't achieve the SR will lower the start value. A split jump on beam not to 180 degrees won't classify as a "B" skill, for example, so the routine may not start with a 10.o0 SV.

But it will count as a B if it is at least within 45 degrees of horizontal. She will just take the up to .2 deduction for insufficient split, and will still get the special requirement.

 

[flippingtogether]

Over the last year, we've seen the differences in L7 and 8 - the name of the game is to get the job done in the cleanest way possible on 7..... and as a side note you can score ok on bars with no giants if casts are good AND if clear hips are good (what's been the substitute around here for giants) and bars form, etc. is spot on.

L8 is truly a different world from L7 is my observation. Clean but difficult skills are what the girls aim for. There still is a place for the girls who are super clean with slightly lower difficulty- but well executed with higher difficulty will win at 8.

I do think it is not unusual for girls to do 2 years at 8 - first year intro to these tougher skills and for many they can't get the chance difficulty up as high as is ideal; 2nd year the goal would be to do the toughest skills allowed.
I truly admire the girls who are doing the latter right out of the gate as 1st year L8s!!!

 

[3rd_time_around]

Are you saying that the bwo bhs tends to get less deductions bc it's fulfilling both the series and acro requirement at the same time? my daughter is doing the bwo bwo series with 2 foot bhs back tuck dismount. So far it's actually scoring well, but I wondered if bwo bhs for the series would score higher since it's a more difficult series.

I haven't seen any level 7 bar routines without giants.

Ashley Smith won the level 7 state title on beam with a BWO-BWO series because it was cleaner than the girls doing BWO-BHS or BHS-BHS. The special requirement says Acro series, with or without flight and one acro flight element. The acro flight element may be included in the series or performed as an isolated element.

A clean BWO-BWO will score better than a bad BWO/BHS series. There is no scoring higher because a BHS in the series is more difficult. Just like in Level 5, if a girl chooses to a BHS instead of a BWO, she doesn't get bonus points for doing the BHS, they are equal in value. As long as she fulfills the requirements properly, it doesn't matter what skills she uses in her series. That's why there's a whole list of skills they can do at this level.

A level 7 bar routine does not have to include a giant, just two 360 degree circling elements, same or different that fulfill the special requirements.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Level 7 is still all about getting used to optional level competition. There are only execution deductions, no composition deductions of any kind. As long as the 4 special requirements are met on each event and then correct number of A/B skills, the cleanest routine should score the best.
However, keep in mind, some gyms will have the philosophy of competing the harder skills to get the experience to be more prepared for the next level.

Yeah - sometimes there are things more important than scoring as high as possible - as time goes on I'm starting to appreciate this more. In the big picture/long term, sometimes it's better to push yourself even if you have to take a few low scores - for example, doing a bwo bhs and falling at a few meets (provided there's no safety concerns) is probably much better prep for L8 than doing a bwo bwo and never falling at all. Same deal w/ doing inconsistent Giants that sometimes don't get over versus doing a consistent 2 free hip routine that will surely score higher than a routine w/ a fall.

 

[munchkin3]

I don't like the BWO BWO series.....that's what mine is doing.....she's not mentally ready to do the BWO BHS series......but her bars are great and so far she doing FH HS on high bar.....as GAgymmom said, I'd rather her do the harder stuff and perhaps fall at the meet, than do an easier routine stuck.

 

[Tigtimes]

In a perfect world they would all do the harder series. Pushing before they are mentally ready will only cause stress. That stress will bleed into other things till they crash and burn all over the place. Sometimes for some it is best to move sideways in order to move forward. Sadly not all coaches see that as an option.

 

[LizzieLac]

In a perfect world they would all do the harder series. Pushing before they are mentally ready will only cause stress. That stress will bleed into other things till they crash and burn all over the place. Sometimes for some it is best to move sideways in order to move forward. Sadly not all coaches see that as an option.

^^^^This...the other thing to realize is that often the girls are not the same "difficulty level" on all events at the same time. Or, as in my DDs case, there was a big injury (and all that goes with it) to deal with. She got her giant back (great! it took a LONG time) but can't BHS-BHS on beam. She is hoping to do BWO-BHS, but as she trains that she is competing HS-BHS. So, some might say she has a very minimalistic beam routine (she jokes there are only 3 skills in it), but she has a floor routine with 3 passes and a bar routine with a giant. That's just where she is now.