WAG Liukin just resigned

[GymFan96]

I wouldn't want most of that list of coaches to become NTC - some also have strong abuse rumours following them whereas others have been very vocal supporters of the Karolyis' methods and the ranch.

I wonder if Aimee Boorman would like to return to elite?

I don’t think she would ever want to be NTC but even if she did she’s not qualified. She doesn’t have much elite experience, before Simone came up she was only comfortable coaching through Level 8.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

But gymnasts train 30-40 hours a week,

I know I’m in the minority but this is part of the problem.

There are actually child labor laws that prevent children from working that many hours.

Yet folks think nothing of letting their little girls put in crazy hours at the gym.

 

[Seeker]

Valeri only stepped down as NTC, correct? He is still coaching at and running WOGA? He hasn't left the sport entirely, if I read it correctly.

He hasn’t coached at WOGA in several years.

 

[LindyHopper]

And even if no one is injured. The 2nd place finisher at trials is not guaranteed a spot. There is no point system. No rhyme or reason. No explanation. Just this is who is on team.

Track you could win every heat all season. And at trials come in 6th, Buh bye Olympics.

My example was from 22 years ago, so obviously not reflective of selection methods today. I am well aware of what current methods are.
My point was to illustrate that rarely is everyone going to like how the team is selected--no matter what method is used. Even if they changed the rules to take the top 4 all around, that whichever organization is certified by the USOC to determine who is on the team (obviously, that's still currently USAG) could still have a rule where those who were injured could be petitioned onto the team. But now I am starting to get into crazy hypothetical scenarios.

 

[LindyHopper]

He hasn’t coached at WOGA in several years.

I didn't know that. Thanks. SO on the outside looking in.

 

[tomtnt]

i wonder if there will be tons of elite dropping back to JO this season - wonder if they will change the drop-back rule to accommodate these gymnasts.

Dang, will be a lot tougher to qualify for JO Nationals if all the Jr/Sr Elite girls join in the fun.

 

[bookworm]

Mackenzie Wofford's instagram is just heartbreaking..

 

[GymMom4]

Mackenzie Wofford's instagram is just heartbreaking..

What does she say?

 

[Lunde]

He hasn’t coached at WOGA in several years.

Was this because he had to avoid conflicts of interest when he started working with the development team?

 

[Seeker]

Was this because he had to avoid conflicts of interest when he started working with the development team?

Yes — and imho the succession plan for him to take over for Marta had been in the works for a long time. Even though they pandered to Mihai, it was already in the bag for Valeri.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Yes — and imho the succession plan for him to take over for Marta had been in the works for a long time. Even though they pandered to Mihai, it was already in the bag for Valeri.

Has Mihai issued a statement at all about any of this? As far as we know he was not involved/had no knowledge, correct?

 

[Seeker]

Has Mihai issued a statement at all about any of this? As far as we know he was not involved/had no knowledge, correct?

I haven’t seen anything from him.

 

[bookworm]

Has Mihai issued a statement at all about any of this? As far as we know he was not involved/had no knowledge, correct?

I'm sure when Mihai was passed over for Valeri and he took the Australia job and then got wind of the implosion going on in USAG, Mihai will be thanking his lucky stars he got out of dodge.

 

[sce]

Besides the sexual abuse, which is just evil, I think some of what people call abuse is just coaching gymnastics. This is a tough sport, and you don't win by having coaches who don't push when they have to. .

There is a difference between being tough and abuse. I think we all need to open our eyes and ears and stand up to that difference.

Fir example: There is a gym in my area with a very successful boys team. But even at meets, many parents and coaches from other gyms have observed the coaches’ behavior with concern. (And yes, some have reported it) Pushing boys, yelling at them for making mistakes, turning their back to them etc. Only high fiving certain boys. Thus is in the public eye, what is going on at practice? Why do so many still send their kids there? I have no idea. To me winning is not worth breaking a child’s spirit. In the long-run, my hope is for my son to become a reasonable, kind, strong adult. Thus I need to be sure he is not spending many hours each week with adults who are making him feel less than.

 

[sce]

4. Valeri may be talented , and like coachp said, a great technician for bars, but "good hearted" coaches don't abuse their athletes.

I think you mixed thing up. Another coach also resigned, a bars coach.

 

[bookworm]

Well thanks for the props , but I am just a JO coach. Liukin is multiple, multiples levels above . In my opinion one of the best bar technicians in the country.

No I didn't , here is coachp's statement on Liukin..

 

[MILgymFAM]

Besides the sexual abuse, which is just evil, I think some of what people call abuse is just coaching gymnastics. This is a tough sport, and you don't win by having coaches who don't push when they have to.

This is what’s wrong and why the culture is so rotten. Maybe it’s better to never win another world title than to accept that children have to be treated like sh*t to get one. The kindest coaches can push kids the most. I’ve seen it with everyday, “unimportant” athletes and I’ve seen it with elite level athletes. Being a great technician and being a good human who sees kids as people before medals are not mutually exclusive. The kindest coaches we’ve ever had were the hardest pushers and they were Russian, Romanian, and German respectively. Not countries known for being touchy feely.

 

[bookworm]

What does she say?

There's a pic of Valeri and Nastia with the resignation announcement and this is Mackenzie's comment:

"Thisis so amazing. God is so good. I’m so happy that little girls won’t have to go through what me and many others went through when being coached by him. Positive changes are happening. #timesup"

 

[l.c.o]

Point 1: He does treat gymnasts like the" claims" say...Atler's accounts are older but Ohashi's blogs are recent enough to say a leopard hasn't changed his spots. He was cut from the same cloth as Marta, and if USAG doesn't want Marta the Male version, he needs to go for the gymnasts' sake.

Point 2: He's been outed so to speak for how he's treated gymnasts and finally, someone is saying no to the abusive tactics. He may "no longer treat them that way" when someone's looking for now, but how long will that last? Fat shaming to the point of eating disorders is not good for any sport, period.

3. Please, please ..I'm sure these athletes had a hard enough time by revealing the abusive tactics used on them without folks calling them liars....they're not lying.

4. Valeri may be talented , and like coachp said, a great technician for bars, but "good hearted" coaches don't abuse their athletes.

1) I’m sorry - I wasn’t so much calling them liars. In fact, I even questioned why they would lie in my post. I was merely trying to give Liukin the smallest benefit of the doubt. I do not personally have proof of any wrongdoing, so I personally hesitate to state the accusations as accepted fact.

2) Do I personally think that they are telling the truth? Yes. Would I send my kids to him or his gym? No. I’ve read enough about elite culture to believe all of it. If Liukin is as guilty as it seems, then I hope the gymnasts pursue a suit against him and that he is prosecuted accordingly. As of now, very unfortunately, it’s all anecdotal. That doesn’t shut his gym down - it merely rallies people to support him against ‘biased accusations’. I mean goodness, if this is true, just him coaching at WOGA is a scary thought - it needs to be stopped.

3) If Liukin did these things but then stopped, then I see this as a slight conundrum for the sport. If he abused gymnasts then yes, I want to say that there should absolutely be some form of punishment. But if he used abusive tactics in the past and then stopped (I have no idea if he did), can’t one wonder whether this real hindsight could/would be good in a leadership role in USAG? I am not stating that I think it is. I am stating that I am wondering if it could be, and am looking for discussion.

I studied philosophy - as a result, by default, I have difficulty speaking/typing in absolutes. And I have the training to believe that questioning these types of things is a healthy thing to do.

4) My point wasn’t stating that Liukin is good-hearted - I am sorry if I have that impression. I was stating that those coaches who ARE good-hearted must be struggling. Particularly when it comes to learning how many kids are being hurt, and hearing what their respected colleagues have done or are accused of doing.

5) I imagine it gives outsiders an overall negative view of USAG coaches in general - they may see many/all coaches as being abusive, which is not true. I’ve personally already had four people outside of this sport ask me whether I regret putting my kids in gymnastics and/or whether I’m comfortable still leaving my kids in the sport given “what we know now”.

 

[TakeTwo]

You are absolutely right, my heart goes out to the girls that are at the end of their qualifying/elite paths, the ones that have been training with Valeri for the last few years, I can't even imagine what they are all going through right now.

Was this because he had to avoid conflicts of interest when he started working with the development team?

Valeri started easing out of the gym after Nastia's comeback attempt in 2012. He slowly handed most gym based activities over to Laurent Landi, and was gone more and more, handing his few remaining gymnasts over to Laurent until they graduated. He was in the gym occasionally during that time, typically on "passthroughs" where he might give pointers or tips to a girl here or there, but was not actively coaching at WOGA. I doubt he knew most girls' names. During that time Valeri was focused on being USAG developmental coordinator. That meant a lot of time at the Ranch over the last 7 years. In addition, when he took over, he said specifically that he didn't see any need for changes beyond "minor tweaks." Link Removed

When he was at WOGA, he was a phenomenal technician, but as gymnasts like Ohashi, Atler, and Wofford (and many others who may start to come out of the woodwork now) can attest, he was not always nice person, or a supportive coach. His methods definitely get results, though, and if he does return to WOGA I guarantee you that no matter what he's accused of, there will be a line of parents at the door begging to pay big bucks to put their children in his hands. Resigning may be a hugely positive financial decision for him: go down with the USAG ship or quit now and make a killing.