Making daughter quit for lack of improvement?

[MarR99]

Also, many people have mentioned a "rec" team for dd or a less progressive program. I think that would send a message of "failure" too if we said that she HAD to go there instead. I did ask her if she liked that option and she said she did not want to do that. She would not be with her friends anymore (one of the reasons she is still doing this.)

We have considered other options too, just so you know.

 

[gymmomtoo]

I was just hoping to open up a discussion here, without feeling judged but I guess I have hit a sensitive nerve and I am feeling a little condemned by some of you.

But you're really not having a discussion--give and take. You are basically saying this is what we're doing--and asking us to say it's okay. You're clearly going to do it no matter what feedback you get--so why even continue this thread?

When someone posts asking for opinions--you will get all sorts of opinions--including many that believe what you want to do is wrong--and most will say why. If you choose to go ahead (and I frequently chose my own way myself--I know what's best for my child--despite what others might think), then know some will disagree with your decision. If you continue to argue why your way is best, then others will continue to tell you why they think you're wrong.

It seems like it's time this thread ends.

 

[bogwoppit]

I think eleven pages qualifies as a discussion.

To the OP, sometimes people come here to find validation, and they just do not get what they are looking for.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, as long as they are polite.

 

[cher062]

Sorry you feel that way I know that is not the intention of anyone here to make you feel bad.

This may be a little long but here goes.

We are just pointing out based on what you have posted that it really isn't about the improvement in her scores. You have pointed out several times that if it were a sport that took less time, commitment, and money no one would have an issue with scores or showing improvement. Have you ever asked the coach if he/she thinks your DD is showing signs of effort and improvement and if so why are her scores lower this season?

Scores are such an unrealistic measure of improvement in this sport and saying if you don't get this score (X) then you have to quit (Y) will happen even though you really love doing this, just puts added stress on her that could cause her to not do her best at the meet. No one is saying she won't meet that goal but if she doesn't them will she feel like a failure because she didn't meet mom and dad's expectation and now is forced to quit?

IF you must make it about scores (which I think is the issues most of who have been at this for years has an issue with) instead of saying you must abandon this sport totally unless you get this score, why not say lets try Pre-Op or go back to Rec class. Both of which would require ALOT less time and ALOT less money and it would let her do the activitiy she loves and give you the time and money in your pocket that you have posted you and your hubby want? It becomes a Win-Win situation. She still can do what she loves and you get the time and money you want for the family.

I guess I don't understand why it has to be all or nothing when there are gymnastic programs out there that would meet your time and money requirements and still allow your DD to continue to do a sport she loves.

When is it ok to have an exit strategy?
All the time but it should be based on a more realistic goal. Is she having fun or is she crying all the time? Does the family have enough income and time for this level of commitment or do we need to find an alternative gymnastic program like Pre-Op/Excel to meet those needs? Is she getting injuries that really say you need to stop? Is Child asking to leave or begging to stay? Is child asking to do another sport or activity and wishing she was with other friends doing other things? Is her school grades suffering because she doesn't have enough time to study and do the work? Does coach think she is showing improvement regardless of scores or is coach saying this is not for your DD? are parents and gymnast Talking to the coach and coming up with a realistic measure of improvement in a realistic time frame for a plan then make the decision to pull your child if she doesn't meet that plan?

There are alot of reasons to leave gymnastics and make that decision, but saying get this score or else no more gymnastics for me is just not one of them.

I would rather tell my DD the real reasons which really have nothing to do with scores and say Your Dad and I didn't realize when you started on team how much time from the family and how much money this would end up needing for you to continue on in the upper levels. If you would like to continue in Gymnastics we can do that but we need to find a program (like Pre-Op) that you can still compete if you want to but cost less and doesn't require so much of a time commitment.

Being a winner, the best, getting specific scores, repeating a level, not being the best for me would never even be a factor in for me at all.

 

[coachmolly]

During my years in gymnastics, I was not an ultra-talented, 36 AA scoring, medal winning, machine. But I loved gymnastics more than anything else I had ever done. It was a HUGE strain on my family financially, much more so than for many of my teammates, and if I was not applying myself to the best of my ability- my parents talked with me. Partly because gymnastics is an awfully expensive babysitter or playtime, but also because they knew it was my personality and well within my realm of capabilities to do better. It wasn't low scores, mental blocks on skills, taking forever to learn a specific skill, or not medaling at meets that made my parents question my commitment- it was solely based on times they saw me goofing around in practice or not trying my best. And I honestly only remember having a specific talk about that once before I realized what needed to change. However, I was a really intense child, so my parents knew that encouraging me to work hard in the gym was also in my best interest, because if I slacked off they knew I would be disappointed in myself. For a child that is more easy-going and fun loving, maybe different expectations should be set.
It also sounds like this particular gym might not be the best fit for your daughter and your family. If the cost is so great, they have already set different, lower expectations for your DD, and she hasn't shown progress- it might be time to look into other options. I'm not sure if these programs are still around, but So. Cal used to have a couple good YMCA programs that competed USAG as well. There are also plenty of other clubs in So. Cal to look into. You wouldn't need to tell her it was because she "failed" at her current gym, but that it would be a better fit for your family. If she puts up a fight, it would be a great time to open a discussion about why she's doing gymnastics, what she loves about, goals she has for herself, and maybe create a pros and cons list of staying at her current gym, moving to another one, or leaving the sport altogether.
You don't need to let her know about the specific financial concerns or the fact that you feel like she's not progressing, but talking to her about not applying herself in the gym and getting her input is really important since this decision is about her.

 

[MarR99]

But you're really not having a discussion--give and take. You are basically saying this is what we're doing--and asking us to say it's okay. You're clearly going to do it no matter what feedback you get--so why even continue this thread?

Well, I have been thinking about what has been said and mentioned many things to DH based on posts here because I was frustrated with his strong position on having dd quit. DH is a logical computer programmer and uses "logic" in all of his decisions, but if I can come up with logical reasons why his ideas are flawed he comes around to my way of thinking (sometimes ) So, I mentioned talking with coaches (which we have already a little after we noticed a decline and they seemed unconcerned) so that might happen still. I mentioned all the other benefits she is getting, self-esteem, good peer groups/friends, not time to get "into trouble" later (especially high-school) great exercise and the ability to overcome obstacles. DH agreed those things were important. He just feels that they could be found elsewhere, which I cannot argue with at this point. I mentioned having her go less hours after the season ends to try other things but he was not sure about that option. Personally, I think it might be a good one still since it would keep one foot in the door (so she doesn't lose all her skills) while she tries other things but we'll see how that goes.

I am just saying that I am considering all of the posts here. But I do think at this point everything has pretty much been said. I will give an update as to what we decide in a few weeks here, as long as I am not chastised too much

 

[gymjourneymom]

My DH is also a computer guy, so I know the type. Let me just say that life(especially with kids) is not black & white. Some of the best memories come when the shades of grey are explored. I would have never imagined the roads I've traveled down exploring options with my kids! They have made a better person by sharing these experience with them. Watching them grow has made me grow as a person too! I wouldn't trade any experience we've had because they have all lead my DD's to be amazing teenagers!

My DD has been "stalled" in her skills for a couple of years now. But she shows AMAZING determination in continuing in this difficult sport. She loves it...it challenges & keeps her fit; mentally, physically & socially her like no other sport she has tried. Yes she tried other sports & excelled in them. BUT she still says winning at other sports is "too easy for her". It's not gratifying to her. She'd rather struggle with gymnastics then easily be a track star. To her it's not about "winning" it's about the challenge.

I'm proud of her whether she "wins" or not. Each time she comes out of practice or meet happy, smiling & laughing...I KNOW she is winning!!! But you know what, even the times she's not happy & smiling...I know she is "winning" also. Because that is when she is digging down deep in herself to find that amazing strength to move forward!!! Everytime I've thought to myself..."I should make her quit this is just too difficult". She AMAZES me with her inner drive!!! She can turn things around & it comes from inside of her!!! Gymnastics has taught her that skill & I know it will serve her well in life! She is a fighter not a quitter. She is proud to face challenges head on!!!

Just wanted to share this view with you. Wishing your DD & your family peace, joy & happiness. ~GJM

 

[Kiwi]

I guess what is not coming across is that we truly love dd and want what is best for her. We have been proud of her accomplishments so far. But I want her to thrive at something, not just be "mediocre." (please don't bother posting why it is OK for her to be mediocre. I know not every girl can "win" but maybe it is time to move on to something else that she can have more success at. I know "success" is a big word here but lets face it, a good portion of success at gymnastics is about getting medals and good scores.

I'm not trying to condemn you, I guess I just get frustrated when people define 'success' by scores and medals. I don't see gymnastics as being all about medals, to me it is about performing to the best of your abilities. If every gymnast who didn't win medals gave up, there wouldn't be many left in the competition. It sounds like these are your standards of success, not hers. I don't understand why you have to force the decision now. Why not let it be her decision, when she feels she has had enough? If she isn't frustrated and wanting to give up now, if she still loves it, why not let her continue? Nor would I see moving to a less intense program as a sign of 'failure'. How would this be more of a failure than quitting? I'm sorry, but the reasoning doesn't make sense to me.

It does sound to me like you posted wanting validation for your decision and are upset because you didn't get it. Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree. It's good to share different points of view, everyone isn't always going to agree with each other.

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

Also, many people have mentioned a "rec" team for dd or a less progressive program. I think that would send a message of "failure" too if we said that she HAD to go there instead. I did ask her if she liked that option and she said she did not want to do that. She would not be with her friends anymore (one of the reasons she is still doing this.)

Hmmm, I would consider that a win-win if she could continue to do a sport she loved, and your family would have the apparently much needed family time that you are seeking! At least that's how we looked at it, for our oldest, when she chose to go to a less demanding (only in terms of hours but I would not say less progressive) program!

 

[cher062]

gym monkey that's what I said too. But obviously these parents see it as failure somehow to choose a different type of gymnastic program. Its not really a lesser program its a different program that does similar things. Too bad too I think her DD would really do well with it be able to keep her skills up if she wants to go back to the JO program, still compete and have the experience of an Optional type program where she gets her own routines and gets to choose the skills she wants to compete. I bet it would stir a spark in her DD to want to do more if she were to have some say in the routines she is going to do.

Everything she has described for her family sounds like the Prep-Op would be a perfect fit. Wish they would give it a chance I think it would really work for everyone.


The P.R.E.P. Optional Program is designed to offer a broad-based, affordable competitive experience outside the traditional Jr. Olympic Program to attract and retain a diverse group of athletes. The program gives an opportunity for:

1. Class students to participate in organized gymnastics events.
2. Those athletes who have competed in the USA Gymnastics Jr. Olympic Program and have qualified to Level 7 or above but need a more basic introduction to optional competition.
3. Those athletes who have competed in the USA Gymnastics Jr. Olympic Program at the Compulsory level and would like to experience a basic optional program during their "off" season.
4. Those athletes who have either "retired" from the Jr. Olympic Program or do not wish to train or compete at Level 7 or 8.
5. Athletes not previously involved with USA Gymnastics to enter the program.

 

[Chocoholic]

One last thought. If you really want to tie her gymnastics future to something she can control, then pick a different yardstick than scores. Maybe ask her and her coaches to evaluate her effort on a daily or weekly basis? You can ask her to work hard and train hard. You can't ask her to do better. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[k2bdeutmeyer]

One last thought. If you really want to tie her gymnastics future to something she can control, then pick a different yardstick than scores. Maybe ask her and her coaches to evaluate her effort on a daily or weekly basis? You can ask her to work hard and train hard. You can't ask her to do better. It just doesn't work that way.

^^ I agree.

Okay, this may get long, redundant, and a bit jumbled up, but here's my thoughts:

I completely understand the idea of, why should we put all this time, money, and effort into something if you aren't going to give it 100%. I have had to have that conversation with my oldest several times (not my gymmie). No reason to spend thousands on something your DD isn't taking seriously (if she, in fact, isn't). I think the issue is in using scores to measure her effort or commitment. Is there another way you could gauge her effort, such as having the coaches evaluate her like Chocoholic mentioned? Or watching several practices over a period of time to see if she's goofing around or working hard?

Could you just approach your DD from the angle that it isn't fair to the family to commit this level of time and money to something she isn't going to give 100%? Let her know that she either needs to step up her effort during practice, work hard, and do her personal best or you're going to have to look at other options. I wouldn't make it feel like she's in trouble so much as just acknowledging what you've seen (assuming you've seen her goofing off in practice or not doing her best, etc.. - NOT scores). Talk to her about WHY she's not trying as hard as she used to. If it's just too much, offer (again) a less rigorous program as a good option to keep her in the sport while reducing the needed commitment by her.

If you're feeling like you're already beyond the evaluation stage and your DD has already shown that her heart just isn't in it anymore (after having it brought to her attention that she needed to work on her work ethic - again NOT scores). I would sit her down and let her know that she had her chance to show that she still wanted to do this, and she hasn't. Something has to change. The family can no longer commit this time and money to something she has proven she is not going to take seriously. And from there, discuss other options and/or quitting. Whatever works for your family.

I just really think you need to peel back the layers and find out WHY she is not 100% committed anymore and address that issue - whatever it is. If you're basing her apparent lack of work ethic on scores alone, I think you need to look further into it and find out if she is actually not working as hard as she used to or if she's just in a skill/form slump right now.

I think those who have taken issue with your position really are taking issue with using the scores as your measuring stick. Find out IF she's really not committed/working hard/doing her best first. Then, address WHY she's not. THEN, you can figure out where to go from there. Just leave the scores out of it! JMHO.