Women Mary Lee Tracy Named New Elite Development Coordinator

[Texastwister]

It's just so easy for those on the outside to make all of these judgements when it doesn't affect them or their child. That is where I am having problems. And from what I understand, when the girls are at devo camp they are still being coached by their own personal coach, the training staff is more there to observe them and give advice, etc..so she wouldn't really ever be in a one-on-one situation with MLT or Tom, at least not without her personal coach present. I could be wrong about that but that was my understanding. And I can guarantee that her personal coach would never let anything negative be said or done to her. It's just a sucky situation all around, for everyone. For the survivors who endured so much, the parents of the survivors who I am sure question every single thing that they did or could have done differently, and for the current elite gymnasts who are just sitting in limbo wondering what in the hell is going to happen with this sport and their dreams along the way.

The gymnast have always had their personal coaches there and looked what happened. There are many people in this forum who are not looking from the outside. I trusted USAG and my child was in Larry’s office and he taped her at camp. There are other solutions to this situation and there needs to be a major house cleaning. Your daughter will be fine but there needs to be change . I’m not opposed to a new organization.

 

[Flippin'A]

I wish there was a way to transition from a camp based format to one where a few members of developmental staff fly around to all the devo kids' personal gyms and observe practice/offer advice. Putting all else aside for the moment, it's always seemed like a tremendous strain to ask a young adolescent to fly across the country one weekend a month. How much time and money are spent traveling? How much school do they miss? I understand it more from a national team perspective because I know it can help promote team bonding, but it seems like so much unnecessary stress for the very young ones.

 

[Jazzjerz]

It's just so easy for those on the outside to make all of these judgements when it doesn't affect them or their child. That is where I am having problems. And from what I understand...

I 100% agree that it is very easy for us outsiders to have opinions...that is why I said “I think” I would do something different. I don’t really know unless I’m there, right? But that is also a double edged sword, because it’s also much easier for us outsiders to look at things more wholistically, as opposed to how it affects our individual child, which can be a good thing. I do know one thing for sure. If my child was in that situation, I’d be darn sure to make sure my understanding was correct, and that I would know for a certainty whether she would always be with her coaches, etc. I truly hope that your daughter has amazing camp(s), and that her gymnastics dreams come true. And even more so, I hope she does so with safety and appropriate input from the adults who are guiding her there.

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

I wish there was a way to transition from a camp based format to one where a few members of developmental staff fly around to all the devo kids' personal gyms and observe practice/offer advice. Putting all else aside for the moment, it's always seemed like a tremendous strain to ask a young adolescent to fly across the country one weekend a month. How much time and money are spent traveling? How much school do they miss? I understand it more from a national team perspective because I know it can help promote team bonding, but it seems like so much unnecessary stress for the very young ones.

If Lily goes to the first two devo camps she will miss a complete week of school for each camp (we would fly out on a Sunday and come back on Friday for each camp). So yes, finding some other way to make the devo camps work for everyone would be amazing!

 

[Texastwister]

I wish there was a way to transition from a camp based format to one where a few members of developmental staff fly around to all the devo kids' personal gyms and observe practice/offer advice. Putting all else aside for the moment, it's always seemed like a tremendous strain to ask a young adolescent to fly across the country one weekend a month. How much time and money are spent traveling? How much school do they miss? I understand it more from a national team perspective because I know it can help promote team bonding, but it seems like so much unnecessary stress for the very young ones.

Is there an app for that?? JK . An idea, elite coaches took turns hosting at their home gym and parents stayed in hotels with gymnast.

 

[suds]

But right now it's still a dumpster fire and pretending its not doesn't help make it stable and safe for the current and future girls.

Perhaps the time has come for our country to step away altogether from semi-centralized training camps for gymnasts.

As I recall (correct me please), at the Karolyis’ original training institute in Onesti in the late 60’s and into the 70’s, the children lived there – for years away from their families. After defecting to the US, Bela had stated that American parents would not tolerate children away for years, so a hybrid / semi-centralized training system was developed here instead.

Fast-forward to 2018, and times have changed… significantly.

Currently, USAG cannot change fast enough in response, to prevent shooting itself in the foot – repeatedly.

Frequent access to experienced elite coaches elevates performance to amazing levels – no doubt.
But at what cost? “How much is a child worth?” Does the US really need to blow all other countries out of the water at international competitions if the personal cost (the safety and well-being of children) can be so high?

Without USAG’s semi-centralized training system, gymnasts will still continue to train in their home gyms.
Elite competitions will continue.
Life will go on.

Let the heat settle down.
De-escalate the situation by USAG stepping away from semi-centralized training camps.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I really don't think camp is going to be a problem any more. They are now open to viewing, the coaches stay on the floor with their gymnasts, with all the new awareness no one will dare be alone with a gymnast. It should be fine and a good experience for the gymnasts. I know several girls who went to the Ranch over the last 5 years, and had wonderful experiences. Their coaches were there learning along side of them. Valeri was a great mentor and teacher. The new camps can also be great and positive experiences. Mary Lee can change. She has been working at Woodward for who knows how many years without problems, everyone left their kids there with her including me.

I'm not saying she wasn't wrong, I'm saying people can change and do change and move forward. She saw the error of her ways. She apologized. Why must she also be crucified? I have a serious problem with people cyberbullying anyone and threatening anyone, that is never acceptable. It seems no matter what USAG does, it is never good enough for anyone. At this point, I think the problem is people wanting USAG to fail and collapse rather than fix the problems. (if you don't agree, fine, but please save the personal attacks for another time. This is just my opinion. I have a positive outlook that they can emerge from this a better, smarter organization, it's just going to take time like anything else and people have to be patient as they restructure.)

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

I really don't think camp is going to be a problem any more. They are now open to viewing, the coaches stay on the floor with their gymnasts, with all the new awareness no one will dare be alone with a gymnast. It should be fine and a good experience for the gymnasts. I know several girls who went to the Ranch over the last 5 years, and had wonderful experiences. Their coaches were there learning along side of them. Valeri was a great mentor and teacher. The new camps can also be great and positive experiences. Mary Lee can change. She has been working at Woodward for who knows how many years without problems, everyone left their kids there with her including me.

I'm not saying she wasn't wrong, I'm saying people can change and do change and move forward. She saw the error of her ways. She apologized. Why must she also be crucified? I have a serious problem with people cyberbullying anyone and threatening anyone, that is never acceptable. It seems no matter what USAG does, it is never good enough for anyone. At this point, I think the problem is people wanting USAG to fail and collapse rather than fix the problems. (if you don't agree, fine, but please save the personal attacks for another time. This is just my opinion. I have a positive outlook that they can emerge from this a better, smarter organization, it's just going to take time like anything else and people have to be patient as they restructure.)

Sadly I think it's too late for MLT. It was more than she could handle. So now back to square one, looking for someone to take on the roll she was supposed to fill. And really, who would want it after seeing what she went through???

 

[wandrewsjr]

Perhaps the time has come for our country to step away altogether from semi-centralized training camps for gymnasts.

As I recall (correct me please), at the Karolyis’ original training institute in Onesti in the late 60’s and into the 70’s, the children lived there – for years away from their families. After defecting to the US, Bela had stated that American parents would not tolerate children away for years, so a hybrid / semi-centralized training system was developed here instead.

Fast-forward to 2018, and times have changed… significantly.

Currently, USAG cannot change fast enough in response, to prevent shooting itself in the foot – repeatedly.

Frequent access to experienced elite coaches elevates performance to amazing levels – no doubt.
But at what cost? “How much is a child worth?” Does the US really need to blow all other countries out of the water at international competitions if the personal cost (the safety and well-being of children) can be so high?

Without USAG’s semi-centralized training system, gymnasts will still continue to train in their home gyms.
Elite competitions will continue.
Life will go on.

Let the heat settle down.
De-escalate the situation by USAG stepping away from semi-centralized training camps.

I have to say, I am coming around to this. Not starting centralized training until the junior and senior National team level, until they reach the level of competing internationally, is sounding better and better to me. Could still do local TOPS testing, Hopes qualifying competitions, video submissions, then invite the coaches of those younger gymnasts that show potential to training at the National team camps. Then the National team camps could be held at Olympic training centers, since all of the gymnasts would be old enough.

 

[amiandjim]

I keep reading all her posts and interviews - and now she's saying she'll step down if people don't stop cyber bullying her, and all she does is justify, justify, justify her actions. She still, absolutely, does not get that it's not that she was fooled by Nasser.



That says nothing. The actual problem is that 50 women and girls had already filed complaints, he'd already been found guilty of having tens of thousands of child porn files, and her response was to say, "I don't believe the charges are true." She didn't believe it until when? Until 100s of women read statements in court? So when one, singular athlete comes to her and says someone that MLT trusts and likes is abusing her...what are the chances MLT will believe them? Because I'd put it around 0%. Especially since she STILL won't admit her fault in that. You can't possibly have changed, one single bit, when you haven't even admitted your mistakes.

I just wanted to say your timeline is not correct. Nassar was indicted on child porn charges in December 2016, yes, but he didn’t plead guilty until July 2017. I would say it’s absolutely possible/maybe even probable, that when this article was written/interview complete, MLT knew nothing about those child pornography charges whatsoever. Honestly, I think it’s possible she didn’t know 50 girls had accused him at that point...the investigation had mostly been in Michigan at that point and news was just coming out. I’m not saying she didn’t make a mistake saying ANYTHING positive about him at all, she did, but I just don’t think we can all assume she knew all these details...we do not know what she knew and when! Remember, USAG gave the coaches no real reason for his absence.

Lord, I can’t believe I’m saying this and I will probably be crucified, but my daughter attends CGA. I don’t know what went on there in the past, but I will say that right now, it’s an overwhelmingly positive environment. The coaches are great, they receive mentoring from the top down, and everyone is just very nice and supportive. The girls are amazingly supportive of one another, and they receive sports psych training monthly on such topics as “how to be a good teammate” which I think is amazing. They receive real nutritional training from a certified dietician and trainer, and I promise that at this time, there is no focus on weighing/being thin/etc...In fact, our last nutrition article was about making sure the girls are eating enough to properly fuel their bodies.

So, do I think MLT make mistakes in the past? Yes, absolutely! But I do truly believe she has changed over the years, she has tried to learn from those mistakes, and right now, I find CGA to be a wonderful, positive environment for my child....otherwise, no way in hell I would send her there 18 hours a week.

I agree a bit with GA gym mom, people are so focused on “burning down” USAG, they aren’t willing to give anyone in the “old guard” a chance whatsoever...the problem with that is that there isn’t really anyone else with the experience or expertise to take on these rolls.

 

[bogwoppit]

It is such a mess. I agree that moving away from camps is probably wise. Until girls make Nat team there really is no need for camps. Coaches could go to training weeks held anywhere.

Honestly when I look at the sheer number of kids who have gone through the various camps, probably less than 5% have ever competed for the US. At what point do people say it is a bit pointless until they make Nat team.

 

[profmom]

The IndyStar published its first series of articles on August 4, 2016. These articles did not mention Nassar.
Denhollander contacted the reporters about Nassar the next day. She formally contacted MSU as well and MSU suspended him at the end of August.
The IndyStar interviewed her and Jamie Dantzscher and published the Nassar story on September 12.
MSU fired Nassar on September 20.
Nassar was charged on November 21 with three counts of first-degree criminal sexual contact with a person under age 13.
On December 16, Nassar was charged in federal court with receiving and attempting to receive child pornography.
The article in which Tracy expressed her support for Nassar was published on December 25.

If you go back and look at past posts on CB, you will see that we were discussing this most of that fall. It's just not credible that anyone high up in the organization was unaware that many complaints had been made against Nassar by mid-fall.

I am all in favor of learning from mistakes and I believe in redemption. I don't think anyone should be hounded out of USAG for not recognizing that Nassar was a bad guy. But there's a lot of daylight between having people continue doing the great work that they are doing on the one hand and picking them to take on high responsibility, high visibility, and high prestige roles in the association on the other. I just cannot see handing that kind of responsibility to someone so gullible that she believed Nassar and expressed support for him that late in the game. In my book it's disqualifying unless we hear something about how she's gone though a lot of intensive training about how to spot people likely to violate athletes' boundaries and autonomy.

 

[bogwoppit]

I am suspicious that when the Don Peters and Marvin sharp stuff came out that USAG was already aware of the “Nassau situation”. I need to go back and look for a few emails, if I kept them. Something someone said has my spidey senses tingling.

At this point who would want the dev coordinator job anyway.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

I just wanted to say your timeline is not correct. Nassar was indicted on child porn charges in December 2016, yes, but he didn’t plead guilty until July 2017. I would say it’s absolutely possible/maybe even probable, that when this article was written/interview complete, MLT knew nothing about those child pornography charges whatsoever. Honestly, I think it’s possible she didn’t know 50 girls had accused him at that point...the investigation had mostly been in Michigan at that point and news was just coming out. I’m not saying she didn’t make a mistake saying ANYTHING positive about him at all, she did, but I just don’t think we can all assume she knew all these details...we do not know what she knew and when! Remember, USAG gave the coaches no real reason for his absence.

I was going to post the timeline from the major news article that's out right now. Obviously they get things wrong all the time. I just compared it to one of the Indy Star articles and it doesn't line up. There was still a mountain of stuff before MLT made her statement. My DD's coaches in a hole in the wall gym with no level 10s or elites were talking about it. There is zero chance someone like MLT did not know.

Not you, but every time someone says MLT has apologized, it makes me want to scream. I have not seen any apology. "I'm sorry I was fooled." and "I'm sorry girls got hurt." Are not apologies. They do not recognize what she did wrong, or take any responsibility for her actions. They are the definition of non-apologies. So.

 

[John]

Idea. Maybe we stop taking gymnasts to centralized camps and take coaches instead. Wouldn't every gymnast at a local gym benefit if his or her coach/coaches got the opportunity to increase their technical abilities.? I know camps like this happen but I am talking more camps, mandatory training. I also liked someone's idea of coordinators visiting gyms or local regional gatherings of athletes, do the work where the gymnasts live.

I am not sure I clearly understand what happens at a developmental camp. A hopes athlete's mom told me they watch the athletes and give recommendations on what skills should be pursued and what skills should be dropped. What else happens at a development camp that is worth attending? Getting attention? I actually have a problem with this kind of thing, but I am of the mind that a gymnast and his/her coach should decide what style/skill gymnastics the gymnast should compete. (what makes them happy)

 

[2gymmies]

So for those wondering about camps... the best thing that happens is they are exposed to kids their age doing things they are doing and they make friends with those kids and have fun with them doing something they love. And the gymnastics is a part of it too (they get suggestions on skills, techniques and choreography from the best and most experienced experts on each event plus dance). Sometimes the kids attending camp don’t have teammates that are anywhere near their age or ability so it can be a lonely road everyday in practice so this lets them make friends that don’t get frustrated that they learn a Maloney in 2 days when their teammate worked on it all summer and still catches 1 out of 5. Our experiences with Valeri and Tom (so far) have been completely amazing and camp has been hard work but fun, rewarding, and successful. It was so nice for my dd to walk into the hotel at qualifiers and classics and see people she knew. And they actually look forward to seeing each other! My dd will be fine if the camps go away because her personal coaches can get her where she wants to go, but not all kids have coaches with the capabilities to do it without the help of the National staff. And for those saying send the coaches to camp without the kids, how do they learn without kids there making mistakes to correct? And what do the kids do at home without their coach for that period of time? Maybe the kids and their personal coaches stay home and the national staff travel constantly to from gym to gym?!?! They will have to be more selective to do that but they could still use videos to determine who gets picked?!

 

[flippin out]

Mostly kept quiet on this subject, but something I have to point out about whether it is likely that MLT was or was not aware of the magnitude of what happening with Nassar at the time she gave a glowing endorsement of him.....she has/had elites all through his career and she owns a gym in Region 5. I can you that everyone (not just the gym community) in R5 was talking about this incessantly all fall! I had medical professionals and regular friends sending me messages, sending me links to articles, asking what I knew and telling what they’d heard.
Someone of her stature in the gym world would’ve had to have been living under a rock to not know all the details of the case. Not saying that she wasn’t fooled by him, a lot of people were! But she had to have been well aware of the details of case (what was being released to media) as it went.

 

[flippin out]

I do tend to agree with @amiandjim on the environment at cga now though. My kid has never been a team member there but I have heard mostly positive things about the environment of the gym these past say 5yrs. And the girls when we have seen them at camps and comps have seemed happy overall and are not telling tales of craziness

 

[bogwoppit]

It seems to me more and more that putting your kid in a sport means they are going to be abused along the way some way. Emotionally, physically, something.

Is it really worth it? Is this the cost parents must be prepared to pay for their child to excel in any given sport?

MLT is not alone, honestly it seems to be a rare coach at her level that is not abusive. We tolerate that from coaches in a way that we would never accept from another human.

Maybe the bigger issue is acceptance.

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

It seems to me more and more that putting your kid in a sport means they are going to be abused along the way some way. Emotionally, physically, something.

Is it really worth it? Is this the cost parents must be prepared to pay for their child to excel in any given sport?

MLT is not alone, honestly it seems to be a rare coach at her level that is not abusive. We tolerate that from coaches in a way that we would never accept from another human.

Maybe the bigger issue is acceptance.

Gosh I hope this isn’t true....