I just wanted to start a discussion on mixed-age group learning benefits and pitfalls. While I agree that mixed-ages can be beneficial and provide many learning and teaching experiences, it can get tricky as the kids get older and reach adolescence. Any thoughts?
Mixed-Age Groups Learning vs. Social Aspects - benefits and pitfalls
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When I took my oldest to kindergarten, the motto of the school was "It takes a village to raise a child.". This is the way learning naturally happens. Not just in the classroom but on the playground too. The fun hand games with the songs, hopscotch, rules for games, and the list goes on. When my kids come home from school, they reteach a lot of these things that I have since forgotten. A lot of these things would be lost if there were no such thing as mixed age learning. This is really just an example and I am sure this is true in all aspects of life.
As far as gymnastics goes, just on my daughter's level 3 team is a wide age range. My dd is 5 but the oldest is 10. They all practice together. The funny thing is is that my dd is more skilled than the older girls so they are learning from her. So it works both ways.
As far as gymnastics goes, just on my daughter's level 3 team is a wide age range. My dd is 5 but the oldest is 10. They all practice together. The funny thing is is that my dd is more skilled than the older girls so they are learning from her. So it works both ways.
C
CoachGoofy
I think it can work as long as the youngers are able to handle the practice time without melting down, and as long as the olders, say, aren't telling off color jokes or excluding the younger kids (true story. Oh gosh, the things I have heard from my 13 year old T&Ters).
There just aren't enough kids in most programs to be super close in age, & learning to get along with other ages isn't going to hurt them. I went to school with older kids, and trained with athletes of all ages (and am now training a pretty good spread), and I'm glad I had that experience. Life isn't age-segregated.
There just aren't enough kids in most programs to be super close in age, & learning to get along with other ages isn't going to hurt them. I went to school with older kids, and trained with athletes of all ages (and am now training a pretty good spread), and I'm glad I had that experience. Life isn't age-segregated.
I think it really depends on the ages, to be honest. It's kind of hard to say in general.
In the other thread the issue of a 10 year old with 13-14 year olds was raised and I don't know. To me that isn't an issue I'd think about. Gymnastics is always that way. And the girls really don't...they're not necessarily "fast" in those ways, when you're at gymnastics all the time. It's weird because in some ways they're very precocious and mature and in other ways they just aren't.
I was thinking about this because now I'm older and out of gymnastics and I hear about other (good students, didn't go out of control or something) people's high school experience, and I'm just like, wow. I was remembering one time one girl in our group telling us about something her brother did (it was a relatively minor event) and admitting she didn't think it was "that bad" of an experimentation, and several others freaking out about it. We were probably freshman/sophomores in high school at the time, but either way I look back at that and we so clearly had no idea what was going on outside the little environment where we spent all afternoon and evening. This might be good or bad, I don't know. But it's not really like anyone is going off the rails in the traditional sense here. More insidious are the self destructive personality tendencies that do seem to spread in these closed environments, but I really don't have any thoughts on how that could be prevented or even if it's possible.
I do think the older ones need to be careful about what they say. But I don't know if it's an automatic problem.
In the other thread the issue of a 10 year old with 13-14 year olds was raised and I don't know. To me that isn't an issue I'd think about. Gymnastics is always that way. And the girls really don't...they're not necessarily "fast" in those ways, when you're at gymnastics all the time. It's weird because in some ways they're very precocious and mature and in other ways they just aren't.
I was thinking about this because now I'm older and out of gymnastics and I hear about other (good students, didn't go out of control or something) people's high school experience, and I'm just like, wow. I was remembering one time one girl in our group telling us about something her brother did (it was a relatively minor event) and admitting she didn't think it was "that bad" of an experimentation, and several others freaking out about it. We were probably freshman/sophomores in high school at the time, but either way I look back at that and we so clearly had no idea what was going on outside the little environment where we spent all afternoon and evening. This might be good or bad, I don't know. But it's not really like anyone is going off the rails in the traditional sense here. More insidious are the self destructive personality tendencies that do seem to spread in these closed environments, but I really don't have any thoughts on how that could be prevented or even if it's possible.
I do think the older ones need to be careful about what they say. But I don't know if it's an automatic problem.
vagymmomma
Proud Parent
My DD's team this past year had girls ranging from 6 -12 years old. A number of them have practiced together for years from pre-team to the competitive levels, so I think the team dynamics are generally pretty good. However, the deeper friendships have definitely developed primarily around ages. And I think that's fine.
From what I've seen, the maturity difference seems to impact the flow and consistency of the younger girls routines more than the actual skills. Our younger girls meet performance seems more inconsistent (there are obviously exceptions to this statement -- just an overall observation based on my experience). The focus (not skills) of some of the girls has led them to be held back a year.
Our older girls seem more driven/eager to learn more advanced skills and I think that benefits the entire team. Some of the younger girls are just superb natural talents and I think it benefits everyone to see skills performed so well.
Bottom line -- I think it can work well. However, it's good to have at least small bands in the same age range (i.e., at least a couple 6 year olds or 11 years olds) so they have someone to bond with.
From what I've seen, the maturity difference seems to impact the flow and consistency of the younger girls routines more than the actual skills. Our younger girls meet performance seems more inconsistent (there are obviously exceptions to this statement -- just an overall observation based on my experience). The focus (not skills) of some of the girls has led them to be held back a year.
Our older girls seem more driven/eager to learn more advanced skills and I think that benefits the entire team. Some of the younger girls are just superb natural talents and I think it benefits everyone to see skills performed so well.
Bottom line -- I think it can work well. However, it's good to have at least small bands in the same age range (i.e., at least a couple 6 year olds or 11 years olds) so they have someone to bond with.
At my dd's gym the girls practicing on team range from 3 to 12. Generally three coaches. One takes the "babies"(the three year olds and four years olds-working toward level one. The other coach takes the soon to be level one girls-ages to 11. The level 2 girls float between 2 groups. The level 3 and 4 girls go with the other coach-ages 6 to 12. The girls get irritated with the "babies" and the level one girls. The little kids are noisy. The level one girls don't have the skills so it takes more of the coaches time. This is 2 times a week. The third day is levels 2 and up. The fourth day is just level 4 girls. I think it all works.
I was never in competitive, but I have experienced this issue from both sides in rec and advanced rec programs.
As an 8 year old in rec, I was at a much higher level than the other kids in the 6-9 age group, so I was put in a group with mostly 10-11 year olds and I loved it. The 10-11 year olds were at a only slightly higher level than the younger kids, but were learning harder skills. I often got to demonstrate skills and feel special because I could do things that the older kid couldn't, but at the same time the coach was able to teach me new skills because she wasn't busy introducing spacy 6 year olds to the very basics of gymnastics.
On the other side of this, I was by far the oldest in my advanced rec group when I was 16 and 17. One year was great, the other was horrible.
When I was 16, the next oldest was 14 and most of the group was about 11-12 years old. I got along great with the other people in my group and had the best year I had had in years. Everyone was at about the same level and we all worked hard and pushed and motivated each other to get better. It's 5 years later now and I'm still friends with a bunch of the girls from that group.
When I was 17, it was a different story. The next oldest was 13 and most of the group was 9-11 years old. The younger girls were really hyper and did not want to work. I lost all of the skills that I had gained the previous year and spent almost the entire year frustrated both with the other girls in the group and with myself for losing my skills. This year drove me to cut my hours in half the next year (leaving me open to more injuries) just to be with people closer to my age.
Sorry for the long winded reply. Basically I'm saying that mixed-age groups can work, as long as the age gap isn't too big and the kids are at roughly the same skill and commitment level. Also, having a coach who is good at creating a balance between the different age groups in their coaching style helps a lot.
As an 8 year old in rec, I was at a much higher level than the other kids in the 6-9 age group, so I was put in a group with mostly 10-11 year olds and I loved it. The 10-11 year olds were at a only slightly higher level than the younger kids, but were learning harder skills. I often got to demonstrate skills and feel special because I could do things that the older kid couldn't, but at the same time the coach was able to teach me new skills because she wasn't busy introducing spacy 6 year olds to the very basics of gymnastics.
On the other side of this, I was by far the oldest in my advanced rec group when I was 16 and 17. One year was great, the other was horrible.
When I was 16, the next oldest was 14 and most of the group was about 11-12 years old. I got along great with the other people in my group and had the best year I had had in years. Everyone was at about the same level and we all worked hard and pushed and motivated each other to get better. It's 5 years later now and I'm still friends with a bunch of the girls from that group.
When I was 17, it was a different story. The next oldest was 13 and most of the group was 9-11 years old. The younger girls were really hyper and did not want to work. I lost all of the skills that I had gained the previous year and spent almost the entire year frustrated both with the other girls in the group and with myself for losing my skills. This year drove me to cut my hours in half the next year (leaving me open to more injuries) just to be with people closer to my age.
Sorry for the long winded reply. Basically I'm saying that mixed-age groups can work, as long as the age gap isn't too big and the kids are at roughly the same skill and commitment level. Also, having a coach who is good at creating a balance between the different age groups in their coaching style helps a lot.
B
bswagger
With my group at my gym we have level 7's and 8's in one group. The age ranges from 11-17.
I am 15, I hate to admit it, but sometimes the 11/12 year olds just get on my nerves. I do think it is a maturity thing like others have said. Because when your younger, you goof around more, and sometimes the younger girls in the group try to act 'cool' to impress us older girls.
One downfall to mixed age groups is no matter what, the younger ones are going to be left out more then the older ones. Weather its about a conversation 'little ears' can't hear, or the older girls hanging out over the weekend, and not wanting to spend it with someone whose 3 to 4 years younger then them. Sometimes it does get very competitive, because the younger ones are the level 7's, and the older ones are the level 8's. And the level seven's will see the eights doing certian tricks, and they'll want to do them. And sometimes our coach will help them more then us, and they'll get the skill before when they really don't need it yet. Then you'll just end up competiting for the coaches attention.
Some good things about mixed age groups though is the younger girls crack me up. And sometimes they'll say corrections in laymen's terms that will just click. Because there younger so they have a 'simpler mind'. I think its also good (the younger girls benefit more) to be around girls who are a level or two ahead of you. This way you'll stay motivated, and inspired.
Sorry this was so long. haha
I am 15, I hate to admit it, but sometimes the 11/12 year olds just get on my nerves. I do think it is a maturity thing like others have said. Because when your younger, you goof around more, and sometimes the younger girls in the group try to act 'cool' to impress us older girls.
One downfall to mixed age groups is no matter what, the younger ones are going to be left out more then the older ones. Weather its about a conversation 'little ears' can't hear, or the older girls hanging out over the weekend, and not wanting to spend it with someone whose 3 to 4 years younger then them. Sometimes it does get very competitive, because the younger ones are the level 7's, and the older ones are the level 8's. And the level seven's will see the eights doing certian tricks, and they'll want to do them. And sometimes our coach will help them more then us, and they'll get the skill before when they really don't need it yet. Then you'll just end up competiting for the coaches attention.
Some good things about mixed age groups though is the younger girls crack me up. And sometimes they'll say corrections in laymen's terms that will just click. Because there younger so they have a 'simpler mind'. I think its also good (the younger girls benefit more) to be around girls who are a level or two ahead of you. This way you'll stay motivated, and inspired.
Sorry this was so long. haha
M
Mack_the_Ripper
It has been very tough for me as a 15-year-old to deal with my teammates who are 9-11 and make up the majority of my practice group. Kids that age can have little sense of boundries and can be quite cruel, especially tough since I and another 13-year-old teammate can be pretty sensitive when the 9-year-olds make comments in a snide tone like "Next time try not to be so clumsy on your beam pass." and "Nastia Liukin is a lot thinner than you." and "Eww!" (referring to underarm stubble). There were a couple little girls in particular who were often downright mean - one was little pathological about it - who had little "warm up groups" when they would be in a little circle and not let anyone else join. I'm sorry, but I don't have to deal with that! I'm 15 and I've had my fair share of grade school cruelty!
Spending 16 hrs/week with tiny little 9-year-olds who I tower over and feel like a lumbering beast next to...it completely distorts my perception of my body and skill level. My thighs are like vast expanses of fleshy embarassment when I stand as the tallest in a line of little kids. I can't perform a standing BHS the same way any of them can, because I'm tall enough that I don't have any room for error, and I need twice the power to throw my body to the right position. It's just not congruent.
However now my group practices at the same time as the optional girls who are mostly in high school and I find it to be much less stressful. Though mostly all of my practice group are a lot younger, I am in the gym at the same time as my peers, which makes me feel like less of a beacon of post-pubertal awkwardness. Also the meanest little girls no longer practice in my group and are more closely supervised under the new schedule.
Spending 16 hrs/week with tiny little 9-year-olds who I tower over and feel like a lumbering beast next to...it completely distorts my perception of my body and skill level. My thighs are like vast expanses of fleshy embarassment when I stand as the tallest in a line of little kids. I can't perform a standing BHS the same way any of them can, because I'm tall enough that I don't have any room for error, and I need twice the power to throw my body to the right position. It's just not congruent.
However now my group practices at the same time as the optional girls who are mostly in high school and I find it to be much less stressful. Though mostly all of my practice group are a lot younger, I am in the gym at the same time as my peers, which makes me feel like less of a beacon of post-pubertal awkwardness. Also the meanest little girls no longer practice in my group and are more closely supervised under the new schedule.
C
cathiann
Beth's an Optional, so my reply is from that point of view--at this point the girls are all serious about their gymnastics, so goofing off isn't usually a problem--even for the "little" 7s (they are 8 & 9, so not really young). My concern is that Beth is the youngest of her group--most will be in high school this year and she gets left out of things sometimes--not just talking during practice, but sleepovers, etc. Plus, at least one of the older girls is having an issue this year with Beth getting better skills than she--and she's being snide and snotty to Beth in practice as a result.
In general, though, I think mixed ages are good for kids. It makes it tough for coaches though to keep an eye on things--and not just pay attention to the gymnastics.
In general, though, I think mixed ages are good for kids. It makes it tough for coaches though to keep an eye on things--and not just pay attention to the gymnastics.
coachmolly
Coach
I usually had kids at least close to my age up until about my first year of level 5, after that there were quite a few younger ones. It wasn't too bad for me because I had some problems that interfered with social development and I often did fine with younger kids. I did find it a problem when the younger girls did not want to work as I was always, even at lower levels, very dedicated to the sport. And it was very frustrating to see the girls who did not take gymnastics as seriously score better than me at meets.
When I was 14 I switched gyms and the gym pushed me back from an optional to a compulsory level gymnast. The next oldest compulsory was 11. To deal with the age gap, I would sometimes be put in the optional workout group so I could work with girls closer to my age and the younger girls did not like this. I could often hear them making snide remarks about me, how they were better and still had to train in the compulsory group, little things like that that really ate away at me as I was incredibly self conscious about being nearly 15 and pushed back to the compulsory levels. Like MacktheRipper mentioned, I often found the 9-11 year olds to be some of the meanest.
However, I have seen situations where mixed age groups get along just fine. At one gym I coached at the level 4 team ranged from 6-11 and they all seemed to do fine together. I think it also helps when the girls have been together for years and the age differences are just second nature. But coaches certainly need to be aware of potential problems if mixing age groups is a necessity, and oftentimes it is.
When I was 14 I switched gyms and the gym pushed me back from an optional to a compulsory level gymnast. The next oldest compulsory was 11. To deal with the age gap, I would sometimes be put in the optional workout group so I could work with girls closer to my age and the younger girls did not like this. I could often hear them making snide remarks about me, how they were better and still had to train in the compulsory group, little things like that that really ate away at me as I was incredibly self conscious about being nearly 15 and pushed back to the compulsory levels. Like MacktheRipper mentioned, I often found the 9-11 year olds to be some of the meanest.
However, I have seen situations where mixed age groups get along just fine. At one gym I coached at the level 4 team ranged from 6-11 and they all seemed to do fine together. I think it also helps when the girls have been together for years and the age differences are just second nature. But coaches certainly need to be aware of potential problems if mixing age groups is a necessity, and oftentimes it is.
I'd have to say it depends on the age. When I was the younger girl on the older team, I absolutely loved it! I had girls doing level 9 skills to look up to and motivate me, as well as teach me little tricks like how to break in grips and such. However, now I am one of the older girls and it can get irritating because the younger girls will get upset or cry if they fall or something minor happens, and they need special attention. Plus they always want a snack break! LOL. But I just keep in mind how much I looked up to the older girls and try to be that to the younger girls 
They're actually quite cute and seem to be improving rapidly since starting to work with us older girls!
They're actually quite cute and seem to be improving rapidly since starting to work with us older girls!
Looking at it one way, its awesome. The younger kids are so nice, don't bother with drama and it's rewarding when you make them smile or laugh, and you are sometimes their role model. On the other hand, it would be annoying if a nine year old got a skill before you, and the bars would always be too short. In short, if the older kids are okay with being with the 9 year olds, mix 'em. If not, maybe there could be a group with the older kids and the next oldest age group.
Aside from the resentment that is progression and ego related, it's hard not to notice (although I don't think anyone has brought up yet) behavior-wise the younger ones tend to get away with a lot more. Let's face it, they are perceived to be cuter, more innocent and needing more guidance/attention, etc. -- much of which is true. When an older kid is rude to a younger one, it's called being mean and bully-ish. It cannot be explained away (and rightly so). On the other hand, when an older kid is targeted, it has to be pretty blatant before the younger one is disciplined.
From that standpoint, I can see how little kids and their parents tend to favor mixed-age groups so long as they are keeping up. The older half may not see it being as sweet a deal.
From that standpoint, I can see how little kids and their parents tend to favor mixed-age groups so long as they are keeping up. The older half may not see it being as sweet a deal.
B
Bobby
Hey Mack - you're one heck of an insightful and articulate girl and writing talent.
Gotta agree!!
Our local grade school is "mutiage" which means kids are grouped according to academic progress rather than age. Predictably, (parents of) average kids don't really mind, (parents of) advanced kids LOVE it, and (parents of) the kids doing badly HATE it - for obvious reasons:
(i) It stigmatises the oldest kids in the group in a bad way, and they develop poor self-concepts overnight. [Never yet met or heard of a kid who was positively inspired to improve and move up];
(ii) It takes pressure off teachers who - in a traditional setting - would otherwise be expected to help the lower performers to 'catch up' to peers.
Multi-age school and gym classes work brilliantly for my DD because she's one of the youngest in all her groups. Would I love it if she were one of the eldest? NOOOOOOOO!!!! In fact I doubt I'd permit it for long.
I try really hard to compliment the elder girls in my DD's groups for being great teachers (they have great advice even if they can't always do what she can). I also try to let them know (apologetically) that I appreciate their patience and tolerance for the times she shows off, competes for attention, and all the things that must drive more mature girls mad.
I have the hugest admiration for the older girls in mixed age groups. In my mind that's proof they have very commendable passion and commitment for the sport.
I'm curious about the OP's original motivation for the discussion? If it was to canvass possible advantages to the older girls in the group I don't think anyone has suggested any. Even if the eldest is the best, chances are their achievements would be shrugged off as 'expected' and they'd have the constant pressure of staying ahead. The only positive I can think of is that if they have an interest in coaching they'd maybe get in some practise/experience and a sense of whether they'd enjoy the career.
B
Bobby
As a general comment, I personally have observed more bad behaviour from younger girls (being superior; 'rubbing it in') than older ones (being jealous). And (whilst I don't mean to imply anything about your situation), it surprises me how often parents believe that their child is being rejected because others are jealous, and fail to see how smug and insufferable their child is (again I'm just picking up from your comment - not making any assumptions about your DD who is probably making every effort to be friendly
). And whilst I do hope coaches will intervene if someone is rude/etc, I don't think coaches have a place in influencing social lives outside of the gym. It's a reality of most people's lives that we're left out of certain activities for a while until we're old enough to join in (eg: driving, drinking ...).
N
NGL780309
DD's level 4 team has a pretty wide range. She's 5 and the others range from 7-11. I don't see too much difference between her and the two 7 year olds. Actually she's the tough one. They both cry when they get tired or don't want to condition. She sometimes has trouble when working independently. For example they will get on beam and the coach says do 5 of each skill and then move to the next skill until you are done. They walk around and spot and give help as needed. Well DD will do the first skill 20 times until they tell her to switch. I'm just not sure she gets it. The older girls are very helpful and will give her reminders. They also will help her find her starting spot on vault. I'm sure they get annoyed with her at times. The coaches always tell me she's doing just fine and is very mature. The parents of the older kids might have a different perspective, but I love it because I think DD rises to their maturity level.
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