Parents moving up from level 4?

[gymmutti]

Will the girls who repeat level 4 be uptraining? I know at our gym many of the girls repeat level 5 (we do not compete level 4) but there is a world of difference in the practices for our first year L5s and our second year L5s. Second year L5s already know their routines. They spend a lot of time uptraining L6 and L7 skills. At first I wanted my daughter to move onto L6 after a year of L5 but that has changed. After talking to the parents at the gym with girls in the optional levels, it sounds like those girls who got a second year of L5 and really perfected the basics felt much more confident as they moved up to L6 and then into optionals.

 

[purplesunflowers]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of your replies... ALL of you are echoing my worries. At this gym, she won't have the opportunity to move to L5 in the fall. If she stays L4 for summer, she will compete L4 in the fall. I talked with her and told her that if she competed L4 in the fall, she would do fabulous. BUT, she might be bored because they will be doing the same thing they are now. She told me that she was b ored and wanted to move on. I asked her if she didn't score well if it would bother her... she said that it would not bother her, she just wants to learn new skills. I called older DD's gym and set up an appointment for later this week, younger DD's gym has yet to set a concrete date to meet. I also told younger DD that if she doesn't get her long hang kip, she might not compete L5... but I'm not sure how hard that will be since she already has her kip.

 

[purplesunflowers]

I have a detailed list of skills from younger DD's gym, at the top there is a number of skills that she needs for L4 and how many out of those she can do with little or no deductions. She got 100%. My other worry is that if she goes to this other gym if they will let her compete L5 in the fall anyway... they started working on L5 pretty hard in January, whereas younger DD's class still worked a lot of L4 with a few L5 mixed in. I'm NOT sure why she is not allowed to do her kip during class. They do lots of drills, but never the actual kip. I asked about her form, thinking that maybe THAT was it, but I was told that her form was basically OK... needed a few tweeks on keeping her head in, but that was basically it. She can do it with perfectly straight arms, as she does her front hip circle (bars are her thing). The floor is harder for her, but she can do a front handspring already, and has not been allowed to try a double backhandspring though she has tried it herself on the tumble track during open gym. She's more tentative on the floor and would need help with that.

 

[purplesunflowers]

I'm going to see how the meeting goes later this week with older DD's gym and see if younger DD's gym ever will set one up officially. I need to tread lightly and not burn any bridges. But DD would be SO bored doing L4 skills again. The medals may make her happy, but it would not be a challenge for her at all. I have asked her many times over the span of a few months what she would like to do if she doesn't go to L5 this spring, and her answer has always been the same...

 

[purplesunflowers]

I can TOTALLY understand repeating L5. But I also have read multiple places that L4 does not prepare for L5 and that a lot of gyms don't even compete L4. Older DD's gym is uptraining some kids (my older daughter and a few others) on L6 skills. These kids competed L4 in the fall! My older DD was told that if she got a 35 her first few meets in L5 she may be able to compete L6. I'm struggling a lot with the two philosophy's of the gyms, really. Older DD's gym wasn't concerned about scores in L4 before they started L5 uptraining. They said that if the girls got the skills by the fall, they could compete L5. I'm glad that they are giving them a chance, I'm feeling like younger DD isn't given a chance to learn the skills. To me, L4 was a practice run... If she needs to repeat L5 because she has issues with L6 skills, that would be fine.

 

[purplesunflowers]

Oh... forgot one more thing... I can't see the L4's uptraining in the summer or fall a lot. I see it staying the same... L4 skills/routines with a few L5 mixed in. They will have new L4's mixed in by fall... they may split out the REALLY new L4's over the summer. If the goal is to compete L4, I can't see them uptraining much... maybe I'm wrong on that, but I'm just going by what I saw last summer.

 

[NGL780309]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of your replies... ALL of you are echoing my worries. At this gym, she won't have the opportunity to move to L5 in the fall. If she stays L4 for summer, she will compete L4 in the fall. I talked with her and told her that if she competed L4 in the fall, she would do fabulous. BUT, she might be bored because they will be doing the same thing they are now. She told me that she was b ored and wanted to move on. I asked her if she didn't score well if it would bother her... she said that it would not bother her, she just wants to learn new skills. I called older DD's gym and set up an appointment for later this week, younger DD's gym has yet to set a concrete date to meet. I also told younger DD that if she doesn't get her long hang kip, she might not compete L5... but I'm not sure how hard that will be since she already has her kip.

Maybe my DD is weird, but her long hang kip is easier for her than her glide kip. She makes them more consistently and they look better.

 

[NGL780309]

But what I really want to know is why you have 2 DD's at different gyms in the first place? LOL. I've heard of parents having a rec kid at one gym and a team kid at another. I also knew someone who had 2 DD's a different gyms because one was elite and the other wanted a more relaxed gym. Do spill if you don't mind sharing.

 

[purplesunflowers]

Ha! I'll spill the beans, but it risks "outing" my identity if anybody from this area reads this now... My older daughter is now 11. When she was at gym "A" she was in the "pre-team" class for about 3 years. Which frustrated us. A lot of people at the gym weren't happy with how the gym was run either. When summer came, she would have had 2 months off from classes because the pre-team class was considered "rec" and not part of the team (team went through the summer). Younger DD had just been moved to a pre-pre team level, and she would have had the summer off too. I didn't like the summer break, because both of my kids loved gymnastics. There was a new gym opening (gym "B"), opened by some coaches who used to work at gym A. So, we went to gym B. Gym B, in fact, got about 75% of gym A's business. The coach that my older DD had a gym A also moved to gym B. Things didn't go well for older DD at gym B. My older daugher has ADHD (no H) and while she is a hard worker and loves gymnastics... and picks up the skills, she's not always 100% on task. Coach was frustrated with her all the time which made things much much worse, and in fact, this coach told me at one point that she didn't ever see older DD competing, but that she saw promise in younger DD.

 

[purplesunflowers]

To continue... Basically, the coach didnt' believe in older DD, but older DD really really wanted to compete. My older DD was AGAIN passed over for team and practices were NOT going well. Then, our younger DD was moved to the Pre-team class at gym B in January. Both girls would have been in the same class... and they are 3.5 years apart. So, even though people told us that Gym A wasn't as good of a gym as gym B was, and that the coaching staff "wasn't there" we moved back. We talked to gym B to make sure that there wasn't hard feelings, they were fine with it because older DD was causing problems by this time anyway. We went back to gym A who was rebuilding their team and older DD was THRILLED that she was chosen for the team. I was worried about her coach/team because the team was SO far below where gym B's level 4 team was, and so far below where older DD was skill-wise... but the new coach at gym A is AWESOME. She quickly learned how to best deal with my older DD's behavior problems that she was having at the time, and now the problem is GONE. Older DD competed well, made it to State and the rest of the team made leaps and bounds under this new coach. Younger DD was moved to level 4 last spring, and she did well too. Some policies that gym B has had didn't work for us as well as gym A's, but it was totally worth it have the girls not in the same class. However, I have been watching both gyms since January. Gym A wants to move kids up, maybe too quickly in some cases... but they are taking the uptraining very seriously. They kept the same coach with the L4's as they move to L5 at gym A. They have lost a lot of kids, probably due to the fact that it was just moving too fast for them. They were pulled from the rec levels pretty quickly into L4 and the practice times/$$ has gone up a lot pretty fast. However, my girls have been eased into longer practices with pre-team etc. over a few years. Gym B has done SOME uptraining, but it seems like they are trying to build a name for themselves and compete hard with another gym that is 30 miles away and pretty good. Which is why I think they want an awesome L4 team... They stress quality over moving up, which I would understand... but this is L4 and NOT L5 that we're talking about.

 

[Krystan]

Not to belabor the point but, just to clarify. I don't see nearly as much problem with the fact that they are holding your dd back as I do with the fact that they are not uptraining level 5 & 6 skills. Another year in 4 wouldn't necessarily be a "waste" unless she goes a whole year not learning any new skills. I thought it was the norm to spend at least a little time each week prepping more advanced skills. Once the routine is learned by all (usually early fall, right?), they should be spending more time on this. My dd is in her last few weeks of L4 practices. Half the group is moving up, but all of them spend time (usually one day of the week is focused on it) on kips, squat-ons, front handsprings, back tucks, dbhs, cartwheels and backwalkovers on beam, etc. Most of them still need spots for these (or are still drilling them), but being exposed early so they have time to develop is good. How are they expected to "have the skill in order to move up" if they don't learn it??

 

[purplesunflowers]

Gym A is struggling to get the numbers in their teams, whereas gym B has almost too many in their levels now. A lot of people lost confidence in gym A a few years ago.. In fact, I was NOT impressed with the L5 coach that they had last year. But, they have since hired a new head coach for the optionals who is really good, and they somehow found the awesome L4 coach that they now have.. and the L5 coach that I didn't like last year has moved on, they've moved the awesome L4 to L5. I worry that my girls will get along OK in class and that older DD will distract younger DD. Younger DD is a completely different child than older DD. She doesn't have the focus problems and is very quiet and shy. She's more driven than her shy demenor would suggest, and she likes competing more than she shows since she IS shy. I can tell from the sidelines that she loves it, but I don't think her coaches saw it.

 

[purplesunflowers]

After every practice I would ask younger DD what they did. I asked about kips, cartwheels on beam, vault, dbhs, squat on. The answer was always the same. It seemed like one skill per day, but usually only drills. DD would answer with a sign "L4 skills." I would name a few L5 skills, and she would say "no, not today." I always asked if she was allowed to do her kip, and she has been able to do it 3X in class. Once to show the L5 coach. Once during "free time" and yesterday during "free time." They did not do ANY L5 skills during competition season. After the season was over, I was expecting to see LOTS of L5 skills, but was surprised to still see mostly L4 skills. They did work on squat-on's which DD quickly got. She already had her front handspring, because they did that a few times. They have not touched back tucks at ALL. Dbhs... my daughter says that she was not allowed to try one because they were working on perfecting her BHS (fair enough). Cartwheels on beam were done on low beam, but not that often. No backwalkovers on beam were ever taught. For the show that they had they did the L4 routine, so they have been working hard on that for awhile. I wouldn't have a problem with DD doing L4 again if she didn't have her kip and wasn't motivated to learn these harder skills. I'm weighing boredom VS scoring... and the fact that younger DD is seeing what older DD is doing in HER class, which is ALL L5 skills.

 

[purplesunflowers]

They certainly do not spend the equivilant of one day a week on new skills... I'd be OK with that! On her current "progress report" it says "we did not look at L5 skills as we have been working hard on getting good form on our L4 skills." This was given to me this spring, 2 months after the competition season ended.

 

[purplesunflowers]

I also don't want have her pushed to hard too soon... It's so hard to know what to do!

 

[ChalkTime]

My experience would be it's OK to wait. My daughter did well at Level 4, too--scoring 36s with 2nd place AA at her best meet. Based on that, we all thought she would rock Level 5, and she was so proud to move up. However, it really is a different level of competition, expectation, and scoring. At Level 5 she took home only a couple individual event medals all season (no AA places). Our daughter "had" all of her Level 5 skills, but the judges don't score on whether or not they "have" the skill, they score on whether or not the skill is perfect. It's not easy consoling your daughter because she didn't get a medal, and it's hard on her self-esteem to sit out so many times. We certainly focused on "personal bests," improvement and growth, but what a little gymnast really wants is a medal! An extra year at Level 4 will give your daughter time to get stronger and more powerful for the vault, hold her handstands longer on beam, achieve perfect form on her handsprings, etc.

Our daughter now "has" her Level 6 skills. But if she stays at Level 5 for a second season, she'll probably have a much more positive/rewarding experience than if she moves up without having "perfected" her new skills. (For her sake, I'm actually hoping she stays at Level 5)! But either way, it's not my decision, it's the coaches'.

If your gym has a strong team at each level, then they must be doing something right as far as uptraining, and I wouldn't worry too much about her not moving up right now. If not, then that is another question . . .

 

[purplesunflowers]

Hmmm... I'm in a total quandry. I'm going to ask tomorrow at the meeting with the gym that would have her training L5 if they would let her compete L4 if they don't think that she would do well enough at meets. Well enough for us would be at least a 35.. I asked DD AGAIN and she says that she wants to move, one of her reasons is another girl in her class that we've had issues with off and on for almost a year now. DH would LOVE for her to move to this other gym. It would simplify our schedule for one. And he likes this other gym better for his own various reasons. The gym she's currently at has a strong team. The L4's did about the same as the L4's at the other gym, but the L5's did better at the gym that younger DD is currently at.