Women Musicality (or lack thereof)

[LindyHopper]

Okay, WAG floor has music. We all know that. And we all know there is also a whole bunch of dance that is involved too.

How many gymnasts do you see whose optional (including xcel) floor routines look like they were choreographed to totally different music?

I shouldn't let it bug me. I'm not sure if it is the choreographer, the gymnast, the coach, or some combination of them. But it bothers me when the music might be a Charleston, and the gymnast is doing things more apropos to a samba. It bothers me when the music has an accent that is screaming for a move, and it is ignored. It bothers me when there is dance that doesn't fit with the musical phrase.

I'm not talking about the gymnasts who aren't strong dancers, not everyone is. I get that. I'm talking about movements that, beyond meeting requirements, have no purpose other than filling up time. In my mind, if the movement isn't fulfilling a requirement, it should be reflecting the music. And for heaven's sake, choreograph dance to match the beat of the music.

Seriously, if the routine doesn't fit stylistically to the music, what is the point of having it at all? Make WAG floor more like MAG floor.

Sorry, if I sound really snarky today. It's been a rough day, and it's healthier for me to get all up in arms, and vent about something trivial like this than it is to get upset about the other things going on this week.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Ha! This is a pet peeve of my DD too. Musicality is generally the one thing she does have going for her, though.

 

[coachmolly]

We see it all the time in Xcel. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with coaches doing the choreo (rather than hiring someone) and not as much time to really refine it. I feel like it's less excusable in JO- especially when the parents have paid big money for music and choreography. And agree, what's the point of movements totally unconnected to the music?
However, I also say this as someone who is completely tone deaf. Can't even clap on the beat. I'm sure my floor routines were a real treat.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The dance of floor has been missing for some time........ JMO...............

For pure enjoyment. I would rather see more dance/musicality. But that is not the way it is.

Although our floor coach always says watch the college girls they get it.

 

[MILgymFAM]

The dance of floor has been missing for some time........ JMO...............

For pure enjoyment. I would rather see more dance/musicality. But that is not the way it is.

Although our floor coach always says watch the college girls they get it.

Watching college gym with my girl this year I have to disagree. I have seen some of the most cringe inducing floor routines while watching NCAA on tv.

 

[azara]

I don't go to JO competitions, but lack of attention to detail, and dance technique, is generally lacking in elite American as well as British, Australian, and Japanese gymnasts, among other groups. Part of the problem is that there is little to no training of dance, specifically. The Russians, on the other hand, have much better presentation because dance training is integral to the younger years of gymnastics. If you watch young Russian "JO" gymnasts, their expression is often stunning. It's a part of the culture, rather like Russian ballet. The Americans are athletic; the Russians are balletic. Other rising European countries like Germany and the Netherlands have also taken a dance-centric route.

To be honest, NCAA routines don't generally excite me because I'm cringing the whole time. It's just ~so~ over the top! It's the most American thing I've ever seen

I'm glad the girls enjoy it, though.

 

[MrsAnderson]

I've missed the artistry that used to be in floor routines. I feel like I see it occasionally but it seems like most of the routines are a LOT of tumbling set to some good music.
Throw in some flingy arms, a leap pass, and wicked fast pirouette of some sort and that about sums it up.
I miss the parts that used to include things like handstand pirouettes and neat rolls and walkovers that we hadn't seen before.

Men's routines, I believe, have also deteriorated into JUST tumbling with a press thrown in for good measure.
I used to enjoy seeing the unique moves and circles and flairs on the floor. Now they seem so rare.

 

[LindyHopper]

I guess I wasn't even thinking about artistry or technique.

I was simply focused on the movement complementing the music. Music with a hip-hop flavor should have hip-hop inspired movement. Ballet would be incongruous in that situation. Conversely, something light and neo-classical would be beautifully choreographed with ballet influences. If hip-hop moves were included, it would feel like an elephant trampling daisies.

I also hate when there is more than four counts of "dead space". Choreograph moving from one place to another on the floor with a purpose. The gymnast may not be instinctively artistic. It is the choreographer's job to be a scaffold of sorts. To choreograph in a way to let the music shine through the gymnast.

Of course, this comes from someone who used to choreograph show choirs.

 

[DADGYMDAD]

Funny. Me and my wife as been following our daughter and looking at you tube for different reasons. We had the same discussions. Timing is often off. Loooong time without movements. Choreography is sooooooo simple. Not really flowing with the music selected. AND almost all the musics are alike. I feel like there is not much details in the presentation ! [emoji44] and we know they are not dancers but still, a couple of smiles or winks at the judge would not hurt even at a young age [emoji12]

 

[thefellowsmom]

Couple of thoughts.

Mostly, choreographers are not all created equal and I believe it is a very specific expertise that when done well is really amazing to watch. We have had great ones, pretty good ones and not so great ones. Some programs and in such parents spend a lot of money on professional choreographers. Others try to keep expenses down by doing it in house or using someone local, which I think results in less complex choreography. We've had several different situations with mixed results.

I will say though that even a perfectly choreographed beautiful expressive routine degrades over the two years they use it. My dd has what I would consider a well choreographed routine with all the things you talk about. But over the two years she has added skills, removed elements, added a tumbling pass and upgraded her dance elements. All of this has left her routine looking a bit odd.

There are definitely places where the dance no longer syncs with the music perfectly and other area where there is a pause or it feels rushed a bit. Because we used a professional choreographer, that level of resources wasn't available to us when tweaking and altering her routine. Dd was in love with her routine and music and now can't wait to ditch it and get a new one.

I agree there is some not great choreo out there and I too wish more thought was put into presentation and that that resource was available to everyone, but I just don't think this is the case and there are lots of reasons a routine may look janked up.

 

[ayyyrial]

Yeah, that's a huge pet peeve of mine as well. There are a lot of sub-par or overworked gymnastics choreographers out there, and sometimes if the choreographer is hired specifically to create a routine, it will need editing due to changes in the skills, and the coach might not know much about choreography or musicality. Or the coach choreographs routines without necessarily having the time or background knowledge necessary to make it really work.

Of course, you can't blame coaches and choreographers for not taking a lot of time and energy for this aspect since it's barely (if at all) reflected in the scoring.

 

[Nikki4]

Drives me crazy!! Looks like they choreographed the routine and then picked the music! And don't get me started on NCAA routines! Lol

 

[Mom2-4]

Okay, WAG floor has music. We all know that. And we all know there is also a whole bunch of dance that is involved too.

How many gymnasts do you see whose optional (including xcel) floor routines look like they were choreographed to totally different music?

I shouldn't let it bug me. I'm not sure if it is the choreographer, the gymnast, the coach, or some combination of them. But it bothers me when the music might be a Charleston, and the gymnast is doing things more apropos to a samba. It bothers me when the music has an accent that is screaming for a move, and it is ignored. It bothers me when there is dance that doesn't fit with the musical phrase.

I'm not talking about the gymnasts who aren't strong dancers, not everyone is. I get that. I'm talking about movements that, beyond meeting requirements, have no purpose other than filling up time. In my mind, if the movement isn't fulfilling a requirement, it should be reflecting the music. And for heaven's sake, choreograph dance to match the beat of the music.

Seriously, if the routine doesn't fit stylistically to the music, what is the point of having it at all? Make WAG floor more like MAG floor.

Sorry, if I sound really snarky today. It's been a rough day, and it's healthier for me to get all up in arms, and vent about something trivial like this than it is to get upset about the other things going on this week.

You are so right. I think Wow! That routine just seems to be just going along with music playing as a side note. I wonder if some are choreographed at all. It is so strange when nothing but the beginning and end match the music.

 

[raenndrops]

I am lucky. Our girls don't pay much, if anything, for their choreography, but routines are choreographed to the music.

The girls have moves where they should and they don't have long pauses anywhere...
We also cut music so there isn't a ton of empty space to fill

 

[DADGYMDAD]

As for floor, 2 years with the same routine... [emoji19]. I can't imagine myself practicing 2 years the same routine on the same music [emoji445]. This must not be motivating at all. I know there is a price attached to this but they shouldd feel pretty proud when they get the new one.

 

[3rd_time_around]

My dd's routines were choreographed by an Olympian, and they were awesome. Just bragging! The entire optional team had her--beautiful routines! Now they have an amazing choreographer who is also a coach. B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L routines.

 

[Seeker]

There are definitely some not-so-great routines out there, but anyone looking for a floor routine to be a dance number with some tumbling thrown in is always going to be disappointed. Yes, there are bad choreographers...we suffered through L7 with a horrible routine. It was painful for all. When there is a routine that is exceptional or just one without awkward pauses, rejoice!!

Also, my daughter generally keeps her floor routines for 2 years -- it is FAR too expensive to get a new one every year and the 2nd yr is generally better performance and musicality wise because they're used to the music & movement. Her choreographer usually tweaks bits of her routine for year two and the tumbling changes, so it is t really "the same".

 

[l.c.o]

Hehe. This was my DD's downfall this year. Couldn't stay on the music. To be fair, the routine was choreographed to the music, though I don't think the choreo was the greatest (pretty basic). BUT I'm highly suspicious that it's due to the fact that my DD had some trouble picking it up... so it was kept pretty simplified.

Some of the girls have GREAT routines.

This season she was the queen of realizing she's ahead of the music and just sitting there in position, not moving. Same spot every time. The whole thing drove me absolutely nuts! She's been a pretty good tumbler though, so it saved her floor scores.

Anyway. Add me to be camp of people who appreciate a well-choreographed and well-performed routine! Those are seriously the best. I appreciate the musicality, often over the tumbling.

 

[GymCMLA]

We, too, have 3 amazing choreographers to choose from based on the gymnasts style. We do pass routines down to save on costs (so a rising 9 may pass hers down to a rising 7 etc).

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

We, too, have 3 amazing choreographers to choose from based on the gymnasts style. We do pass routines down to save on costs (so a rising 9 may pass hers down to a rising 7 etc).

We also pass on routines. We also get our choreography and music free, as long as we don't post the routine on an open social media thing. It's pretty good choreography!