National Averages

[twisting007bigflip]

Just wondering...

Is there somewhere that I can find a listing of national averages for compulsory and optional scores broken down by age group? As an example, if I wanted to know the average score for a 7 year old USAG level 6 gymnast on bars, where would I look?

Also, is there a national average chart for conditioning and flexibility? I assume that those numbers would have to come from TOPs, but, either they aren't published online, or I missed it. (highly possible that I missed it)

Thanks,

 

[ZJsMom]

TOPs averages are on the USAG website. Score averages would be pretty meaningless because there definitely are regional variations in judging. I just don't think you can compare scores from one state to another.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

no................................

 

[ZJsMom]

I just noticed that you're asking about a 7 year-old level 6. If she's already competed level 6 at 7, she's in the top 5% of gymnasts. The average level 6 is more like 10-11.

 

[bogwoppit]

no................................

I know.I hear ya!

 

[twisting007bigflip]

oooookaaaaay. A couple of you responded like I'm some kind of crazy loon. I don't think that I'm asking an unreasonable question at all.

I was only using the 7 year old level 6 as an example..."that" child doesn't even exist within our gym. In fact, we don't have any level 6 kids at all.

I'm asking because our gym is considering joining USAG. We have something like 25 kids on team (level 4 and level 5) and then some pre-teamers (level 2 and level 3)

Right now, we are competing in an unsanctioned league, but sanctioned aau meets. The sanctioned aau league has gone under. Not enough gyms to participate, so we are left with only the unsanctioned option.

Our kids are scoring and placing well at these sanctioned & unsanctioned meets - our level 4 kids typically score pretty well overall. A low all around score for us would be around a 33.5, most scoring between a 35.5 and a 36.5, with our highest scoring level 4 achieving all arounds of 37+ (her highest and record all all around score for our gym is 37.75)

BUT, when I compared her scores to the Level 4 State championship scores for our state, she was placing in like the 75th percentile. Her highest all around score of 37.75 would have placed something like 125th place of all level 4s in our state. (i don't have the papers in front of me atm.)

So, I was just wondering what the averages might be. Age groups listed for the scores for state were vague (child a, child b, child c, jr. a, jr. b...youth a,b,c...sr....) Maybe we need to step it up in our workouts. It seems like our kids would get killed at state. I mean, if a 37.75 isn't in the top 50??? Seems like USAG is pretty hardcore. I have no problem with our kids not winning, but I'm not sure how much fun it would be for them if USAG is a blood bath, know what I mean?

 

[bogwoppit]

Phew, you almost had the crazy police out!!! You do know we get wuite a few here, to have a "noob parent" look for those statistics is always a red flag.

Welcome onboard. I think your second post will help other coaches respond to your question more appropriately.

 

[Pickle's Mom]

While I can kind of see why you want that information, I just don’t think it’s going to help you. Every meet and every state is different. So, comparing your kids to kids in other states isn’t going to help you determine if your team is ready to compete at a specific meet in your state.

I’ve found that at the compulsory levels, the system is really set up to inhibit this type of comparison. The way that girls are split in age groups (often differing from meet to meet) is intended to get the girls to focus just on having the best possible score at the meet they are currently focusing on, and not looking at how they are doing in some imaginary state ranking.

However, since you asked, and since I am avoiding the really annoying project I am doing at work, I looked at our State Level 4 final scores. In our state, almost every girl makes it to States and they split it up into 3 ability groups according to how they gymnast did at Sectionals (Bronze, Silver, Gold). Within these ability groups, the girls are then split into age groups. There were 454 competitors overall (approx 150 in each ability group broken into 20 in each age/ability group). Here are some of the numbers.
Maximum score=38
Minimum score= 29.95
Average score (all ages and abilities) = 34.84
Average score (all ages Gold) = 36.12
Average score (8 yo Gold) = 35.7

Really, you could look at these numbers all day, but in the end you need to remember that every gym is different. There are a few gyms in our state that produced most of the top winners for L4 states. But there are a lot of gyms that have great programs and produce happy gymnasts who have a lot of fun and love to compete. There are also enough meets that the gyms can find like-abilitied gyms to compete with.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

right^^^^statistical percentile is irrelevant.

 

[gymdog]

In some places the numbers are so large for level 4 that placing is almost irrelevant. A couple small mistakes on one day puts you out, some kids that age just don't have the focus for the details even when they're progressing fine (I have one like this. Already picked up a kip but sometimes seems all over the place in a routine. If she wants to continue in gymnastics she'll eventually be fine but isn't going to win AA now). The kids should try to do their best, hopefully be competitive at their best events, and progress. And move to level 6, where the field narrows considerably, and a hardworking gymnast will like get more recognition for her efforts on her best events. Even in optionals (which takes a lot of hard work just to get to), many gymnasts are not consistent "all-arounders". Some are. What many are working to do is to really shine at a few events and get the rest of their events consistent and high scoring enough to make qualifications. You can see this in that once gymnasts move to the NCAA level where it is common to be an event specialist, relatively few compete AA. Many focus on their strongest events in the context of the team.

 

[Pickle's Mom]

right^^^^statistical percentile is irrelevant.

Grrr... Dunno - I typed up a lengthy response and used Excel and everything to show my point, and then you said it better in just 5 words.

 

[Flippers Mom]

It seems as if you are also wondering how USAG and AAU compare. In our experience, it is much easier to get high scores in AAU. AAU uses the same compulsory routines, but deductions are smaller, leading to higher scores in AAU for the same routine. Of course, all the things mentioned earlier still apply, but generally speaking, you can expect USAG teams to practice more hours and be much more competitive.

 

[ZJsMom]

If you're wondering whether your dd or team should make the jump to USAG, the best approach might be to attend a meet and see what the competition is like and what the judging is like. I think that would probably give you a better idea than trying to analyze scores.

 

[gymdog]

Well, states is also a pretty big meet and that means there is upward pressure on the scores generally. If you have 125+ kids in any one age group (which is a lot, even if the scores were reported that way, the group was almost certainly broken down further for awards), then scores are most likely going to creep up more and be much closer together than if you have 10 kids. You can't compare scores from one meet to another. And the scores at states tend to be a bit higher in most places in general, it's the end of the game at the compulsory levels. There's both more intense training leading up than your average invite and the severity of the deductions is a little here (in my state at least, I personally don't think the "improvement effect" accounts for all of it).

But in a lot of places I do think AAU is a little more relaxed than USAG. That probably does not mean kids getting 36s and 37s don't belong in USAG. Which I personally think is ability to qualify for the state meet at the respective level and perform all the skills safely, with reasonable confidence. As I said before, many kids will compete in compulsories without ever getting near first place. I made it to the top levels of the sport and here's what I won in compulsories: my first meet (L4. didn't really do L4 though). A promising start, but then: one second place on beam in L5 at a random meet (literally the only thing I won in L5), first place on floor at a bunch of random meets in L6, and first place floor at L6 states. We competed a lot, maybe 10 meets a year in L5 and 6 including states and sectionals...I certainly did not win a lot relative to the amount of events I did. Also, I was really bad at L6 bars. I "won" much more as an optional. There are numerous girls out there with the same story as me. I'm sitting under probably a hundred medals at my desk at home and like 95% of them were won when I was in middle and high school.

 

[flippersmom]

If you want to know how your gymnast are doing, I suggest having a USAG judge from your state come in and do a clinic. Schedule it though the judging coordinator from the state if you don't know anyone. They can let you know how the group is doing and let you know any weakness that you should work on. It would be better to focus on that than to start throwing number around.