Need to repeat Level 5?

[Quadqueen]

Also, a 34 at states does not show mastery at level 5. My advice is to back off and let your daughter take this year to become more confinent and stronger. Does your gym let you pick what meets you do? That is crazy. If she was on my Level 5 team she would compete at all the L5 meets! This will be a great year for your DD if you let it be!

I'm a little confused here....my DD's gym lists all the meets for the year and we pay for/sign up for the ones we want to do. The girls are strongly encouraged to do all home meets at our gym. How can you force a child/family to participate in all meets, if say, they are away that weekend, or find a particular meet to cost too much $$?

 

[lettrich]

I guess I will just let the cards fall as they may. I know I have to trust the coaches but I have always had trust issues - especially when it comes to my kids. Part of me is also resentful as to the amount of time required in the gym - part of me feels like if she isnt going to be moved up a level why am I sending her all those hours. I mean I think 16 hours is excessive. In fall its 5 days a week - they still want her to come that many days. And if your child is "absent" they call your house. Last year she was chastized for going to her scheduled dance class (on a nongym day) because they had a meet. I know I'll be even more peeved if they take this approach & she is repeating a level. Just venting now

 

[CoachGoofy]

Moving up isn't the be-all end-all of gymnastics. Or it shouldn't be. Success and consistent progress and solid foundations are the keys (and the key to moving up).

Sometimes it seems that some parents think coaches don't move a kid up to be mean, or that their child isn't learning a skill because we're not doing our job or something. But it isn't that at all. We want the athletes we work with to be successful, even if that means backing off a skill or repeating a level until everything is nice and clean with good technique. Better wait till they're ready than push too fast & the kid end up scared or with crushed confidence from a bad season.

It's not like school, where there's a set of learning that can be expected for most kids within a year...gymnastics progress is much more varied. Kids can be thisclose to a skill for a year, while another comes in, tries twice, and has that same skill. So not moving up every year isn't necessary to be making good progress.

 

[MaryA]

I Part of me is also resentful as to the amount of time required in the gym - part of me feels like if she isnt going to be moved up a level why am I sending her all those hours. I mean I think 16 hours is excessive. In fall its 5 days a week - they still want her to come that many days. And if your child is "absent" they call your house. Last year she was chastized for going to her scheduled dance class (on a nongym day) because they had a meet. I know I'll be even more peeved if they take this approach & she is repeating a level. Just venting now

Maybe this is the root of the problem. Maybe, instead of questioning whether or not your daughter should repeat level 5, you should be questioning whether it's the right decision for your daughter and you and the rest of your family to have her in what sounds like a very serious and intensive gym. 16 hours IS a lot for level 5. Not the most I've ever heard of, but definitely towards the upper end of the spectrum, and yes, it's more hours than I personally would want my 8-year-old to be in the gym. And clearly the gym wants a BIG committment from its gymnasts and their families in other ways as well. Maybe this just isn't the right place for you guys to be right now? Do you have other options?

 

[lettrich]

There are other options in our area. However this is one of the few gyms that has high level gymnasts in our area. There is a new gym (closer to my house) that only requires 3 days a week. I have spoken to my daughter about this but she doesnt want to leave her friends. The $ is roughly the same but I know if she wants to get to higher levels there is only 2 or 3 gyms within a 1/2 hr-45 min radius in which to do so. So we are kind of "stuck".

 

[Blackie6]

My daughter is a repeater...and I just want to tell you that L5 is a huge year in gymnastics. Learning the Kips and getting comfortable on the jump to high bar and vault are all huge skills. My DD was not the only one who repeated, it is not a crime to repeat, there is nothing that says every gymnast should do a level per year...I am glad she did because I would rather her repeat and get that foundation she needs for optional levels then for her to have been pushed up and fail. We have seen/known many a repeat 5er's to move much quicker to optional levels with that sucessful second year behind them. L6 is not as easy as you think. The judging is different and what was "ok" for L5 is NOT for L6. Arms need to be straighter, casts need to be higher, clear/free hip circles need to be done well....these are all things that you may not see when your daughter is doing bars, but a judge would, as a deduction. My daughter could barely make it over the vault her first year, but by the second year she placed at states! I know you mention your daughter wants to stay and be with friends but the sad reality of it all is girls will progress faster and slower than your own daughter. They can still be friends in different levels. Some will quit, some will move to other gyms, but that "core" group your daughter might have been with from the begining will start changing now. Help her with these changes! Tell her there will be times she can spend with old teamates, tell her everyone progresses at different rates, give her the positives for doing another year! If she loves gym, she will still love it doing another year of level 5 and most likely enjoy her sucesses. She will become more confident, in the gym and about herself and it will boast her into the next level when the time comes and she will be ready for it.

 

[txgymfan]

I know I have to trust the coaches but I have always had trust issues - especially when it comes to my kids. Part of me is also resentful as to the amount of time required in the gym ... I know I'll be even more peeved if they take this approach & she is repeating a level.

These phrases make me very uncomfortable. If you resent the time she is in the gym, working out being active with friends then what would you rather have her do? If you resent her activities she will pick up on it and may eventually quit to satisfy you. Also, if you do not trust her coaches (or teachers, or dance teacers etc.) then will she trust them? This could impact her saftey at the gym, she is trusting them with her body while flying through the air. This could impact her at school causing her rebel against her teachers becasue you will back her and not her teachers.

I don't have solutions, I can only speak as a teacher who has delt with untrusting parents and as a child who once let mom's feelings dictate my activities. I hope you find the right place for both you and your daughter.

 

[lettrich]

These phrases make me very uncomfortable. If you resent the time she is in the gym, working out being active with friends then what would you rather have her do? If you resent her activities she will pick up on it and may eventually quit to satisfy you. Also, if you do not trust her coaches (or teachers, or dance teacers etc.) then will she trust them? This could impact her saftey at the gym, she is trusting them with her body while flying through the air. This could impact her at school causing her rebel against her teachers becasue you will back her and not her teachers. I don't have solutions, I can only speak as a teacher who has delt with untrusting parents and as a child who once let mom's feelings dictate my activities. I hope you find the right place for both you and your daughter. I feel that the amount of time required is excessive. I am running her back & forth 5 days a week in addition to running my other child to his multiple activities. I guess I am resentful (at times) of being a taxi driver - hahaha. I do not complain to her but feel with the amount of time & money spent in the gym we should see improvement. I trust her coaches but am afraid that they will not push her & see it as easier for them to coach her now that they dont have to push her ahead to learn the level 6 skills. When it comes to her school & teachers I know there are 2 sides to every story & I am not one of those parents who think their child can do no wrong.

 

[skschlag]

I guess you have to figure out what "improvement" means. my son did 1 year of level 4 and has done 2 years of 5. There is a good chance he may repeat 5 for a 3rd year. That being said, we see tons of improvement. Repeating a level does not mean that they are no improving. For my son, it is so he can get tighter, perfect the basic skills, before moving on to more difficult things. He can do a lot of the level 6 skills already, but needs to get the basics down. If not, it could slow him down later in competition. So for me, I have to separate and realize that advancement through the levels is not the only way to show improvement. And I totally understand what you are saying. Gymnastics takes money, time and a lot of commitment from the entire family. And I drive my other son to his activities, and we live about 20 minutes from the gym. But to us, it is worth it.

 

[gymgal]

I feel that the amount of time required is excessive. I am running her back & forth 5 days a week in addition to running my other child to his multiple activities. I guess I am resentful (at times) of being a taxi driver - hahaha.

5 days does seems a bit excessive for level 5-6. but 16 hours seems about right. they have just spread it a little more than other gyms. my dd goes 4days 4hrs each day. Gymnastics is a HUGE time commitment for the family. And it doesn't fit into everyone's family life, particularly when you get into these amount of hours. I think this is something you have to really consider before your dd goes much further. She may continue to have these fears with the higher level skills as well. It is entirely possible that she would repeat an upper level. How will you feel about this?

Basically, when I agreed to place her on team, I made the commitment to allow her to see it through for as long as she wanted to be a gymnast. I have it in my head that she will be at the gym 4-5 days a week for the next 8 years and I will be paying for it (obviously). For me, it's not a matter of how far she goes. It's a matter of how happy she is and whether she is continueing to progress, even if it is slow. She repeated the entry level (we do prep op) because she didn't have the confidence to go on to the next level. And I fully expect that she will repeat at least one of the levels in 7-10 (likely 2 or 3 of them) but I'm ok with that.

I know you're worried that the coaches won't push her but if she is working out with the level 6's, won't she be doing all the uptraining they do? I'm not sure how they would hold her back. And if they keep her in the level 5 team, then won't she be working on the skills she is afraid of? So either way, she will be progressing.

 

[gymcoach34]

We have that kind of system w our prep opt team. Every gym does everything differently, and this system works for us, just as I am sure your system works for your gym. We plan our meet sched very carefully so missing a meet would not be beneficial to the athlete. Occasionally we have people that miss a meet, but hardly ever, we have a very dedicated team and we dont plan compulsory meets around school vacations, etc so there usually are not any issues. We also get the meet scehd out vERY early and that helps families with their planning.

What would not go over with me would be someone thinking they could just pick a meet here and there at the repeating level bc they didnt agree with the coaches decison not to move up.

I'm a little confused here....my DD's gym lists all the meets for the year and we pay for/sign up for the ones we want to do. The girls are strongly encouraged to do all home meets at our gym. How can you force a child/family to participate in all meets, if say, they are away that weekend, or find a particular meet to cost too much $$?

 

[gymcoach34]

These phrases make me very uncomfortable. If you resent the time she is in the gym, working out being active with friends then what would you rather have her do? If you resent her activities she will pick up on it and may eventually quit to satisfy you. Also, if you do not trust her coaches (or teachers, or dance teacers etc.) then will she trust them? This could impact her saftey at the gym, she is trusting them with her body while flying through the air. This could impact her at school causing her rebel against her teachers becasue you will back her and not her teachers.

I don't have solutions, I can only speak as a teacher who has delt with untrusting parents and as a child who once let mom's feelings dictate my activities. I hope you find the right place for both you and your daughter.

You hit the nail on the head, Txgymfan. PEEVED? Your DD is 8 and you have had multiple people here tell you we all agree (after you asked for opinions) that the coaches are making the decision that is best for the CHILD- you are thinking what will make you-the ADULT- feel good. (Sorry, had to be blunt here.) I have had many parents over the years not agree with a decision not to move their DD up, but they have mostly been supportive and respectful about it. (And most have come back and thanked me at the end of the season for having thier DD's best interest at heart). Oh yeah...I have coached an elite athlete who is now on a full ride to UCLA and guess what, she repeated Level 5 bc of her age and some fear issues!

Do you really think your DD does not know how you feel about this? How do you think this makes her feel? I hope I am reading your posts the wrong way but all I see are red flags from a coaching standpoint. The coaches are looking at her LONG TERM success- not just one season- to say they have an 8 year old Level 6. Good luck and I hope you can relax and see the light for your DD's sake.

 

[MaryA]

BUT it's not all about the gymnast. I'm not saying that the gymmie should not repeat level 5. I think she probably should. But a time commitment of this magnitude affects the whole family and if a parent doesn't feel like the sacrifice of time (time not spent with family, time not spent on homework, time not spent with friends outside the gym, etc.) is worth it, then it doesn't make her a bad parent. I think that this amount of days/hours is A LOT for this age and level (at least it is in my area... I know in some areas it's the norm) and if it were me, and there was a closer gym that allowed for fewer days/hours, I would look into it seriously. Of course a kid isn't going to want to leave her friends at the other gym, but she will adjust, and if it makes for an improved family dynamic and for a mom who isn't overwhelmed by the schedule, it would be worth it for everybody concerned.

 

[lettrich]

BUT it's not all about the gymnast. I'm not saying that the gymmie should not repeat level 5. I think she probably should. But a time commitment of this magnitude affects the whole family and if a parent doesn't feel like the sacrifice of time (time not spent with family, time not spent on homework, time not spent with friends outside the gym, etc.) is worth it, then it doesn't make her a bad parent. I think that this amount of days/hours is A LOT for this age and level (at least it is in my area... I know in some areas it's the norm) and if it were me, and there was a closer gym that allowed for fewer days/hours, I would look into it seriously. Of course a kid isn't going to want to leave her friends at the other gym, but she will adjust, and if it makes for an improved family dynamic and for a mom who isn't overwhelmed by the schedule, it would be worth it for everybody concerned.

Thanks Mary for understanding that it is a big time commitment & a lot of work as a parent. I was just venting about the hours & my diappointment she is not moving up. I also feel that her coaches havent given her enough time to learn these skills. I also am worried my daughter will not try as hard (if she repeats the whole year) because she alraeay knows the level 5 skills.

 

[bogwoppit]

Thanks Mary for understanding that it is a big time commitment & a lot of work as a parent. I was just venting about the hours & my diappointment she is not moving up. I also feel that her coaches havent given her enough time to learn these skills. I also am worried my daughter will not try as hard (if she repeats the whole year) because she alraeay knows the level 5 skills.

Then maybe she is not cut out to be a USAG gymnast. Tough I know, but the system is built on the acquisition and perfection of skills before advancement. Gymnastics can be very boring, constant repetition and small refinements are totally the norm at every level.My youngest didn't enjoy the monotony and has just moved to cheer so she can tumble and dance. She was not cut out for gym in the end. Though she learned a lot and had fun in the gym.Sometimes it takes family's until this level to work put that they, not the child, are not up to the huge commitment of time and money it takes to do gym.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

I can understand where you are coming from lettrich, I really can. We switched gyms this past year because of many reasons, but one of them was that we were told that our dd would be moving into training with the National Level girls right away to prepare her to compete this year at the Pre-Novice National level.

Well when we got there, the new conditioning and training was just too hard for our dd. She had a hard time keeping up AND they switched her back walkover leg so she had to relearn all that. So they decided to put her with another group and have her compete way down at our Provincial Level 3. (things like a back walkover on beam, no kip on bars, flyspring roundoff on floor, etc.

It was very disappointing at first. But then, you know? She was laughing and smiling at gym as she was PERFECTING these skills that she could already do. She was excited to get to gym, and had lots to tell us after. She does all her beam and floor complex better and better. She is HAPPY. And now that summer training is ongoing, she is at this point learning her new skills and we will just see what level she ends up in this coming season.

Of course I want her to make it into the pre-novice national levels. But if she just doesn't have the skills yet, she just doesn't. My disappointment doesn't matter. It's HER sport, and she needs to be motivated to do it herself, and continue to love being in the gym for all those hours every week.

My advice then, is to leave it to the coaches to decide your dd's level, and leave it to your daughter to tell you whether or not she still loves doing gym, and leave it to you to love and support your dd, and cheer her on no matter what level, what skills and what the results are.

It is a hard sport to parent. We can all use the support that this forum offers.

 

[Gym Mommie]

On these types of posts, I always ask, "does she need to compete while she's working the new skills?" There is nothing wrong with not going to meets until you are comfortable doing the skills you wish to compete. The next question that comes to mind would be "will she actually be working the level 6 routines while competing the level 5 meets or spending time trying to get a perfect level 5?"
Unfortunately I've worked with coaches that only see scores and money from private lessons so I may be a little tainted on how I look at the "lets do this level for another season" issue. She's 8 years old so she has plenty of time to progress.

I agree with you. Why do coaches want kids to memorize a Level 5 routine while training for Level 6 skills. I don't understand this.

 

[jasminekayla]

I have to agree with everyone else. My daughter was a 5 last year and moved up to 6. Last year her struggle was the cartwheel and this year she has nailed the back walk over. Alot of that I think was from suffering so much on the beam last year. The judge who came to help our girls this year came right out and said this level stinks be ready. This is nothing like you have seen before. There are some things I wish my daughter was held back on to get stronger and some not. The best person who knows is your daughter. I think too many times we as parents or coaches, think or believe, we know what's best for the girls but really its the girls that have to get out there and do it. And if they are not confident that will show.

 

[lilgymmie7]

I agree with you. Why do coaches want kids to memorize a Level 5 routine while training for Level 6 skills. I don't understand this.

I am not sure that I have a direct answer to your confusion, but I'm just going to say what is true with my DD. She recently moved to her new gym at the end of February. That means that she 'jumped ship' mid-season. Well, she clearly improved after only two short months. Because of this I truly trust her coaches 100%.
Classically at her new gym, they compete two years of level 5. Some score out of level 6 during their second year and then move up to level 7 the following season. However, some compete a full year of level 6 and then move up to level 7 if they are ready. These girls are continuously up training whether it is a full level or two or even more.
DD is still 7, so moving up for the sake of moving up is not what we are in this for. However, she currently trains and has her level 6 and quite a few of her level 7 skills. She told me today that she did her first real giant on the pit bar with her coach there. She was excited!
So as for competing level 5 and training level 6, it is 100% possible. DD is still perfecting the 5 routines while learning the level 6 dance skills and doing the six skills. All of this while up training further. She works lay outs and halves on floor, handspring FT, FF's on beam, HS FFs, BWO FF, etc.
Because I trust her coaches, I know that what ever she does this season she will be totally prepared. Her preparedness will not just be for this season but for the following seasons as well. What they do well at this gym is "Build" on each skill. They see each skill as a foundation for the next. I have seen many gyms who only work the current skills. That isn't for DD. She would burn out too quickly. It's smart to compete where they are the MOST successful while up training as the gymnast progresses on a continuous basis.

 

[andrea0213]

Repeating a level in gymnastics isn't like being held back in school, and it doesn't mean that she will be stagnant. I was a little disappointed when my daughter's coach had her repeat level 5 after finishing 12th at State (Texas) with a 35.825...but I after a second year of level 5 where she consistently ended up in the top 5 I was so happy with the choice. Repeating gave my daughter confidence and it really prepared her for level 6, which is a whole new world compared to level 5. I'm sure the coaches will have her working on level 6 skills while at practice as she perfects her level 5 skills. Most of the time the coaches know what they are talking about, even if we as parents don't agree at first!