Number of tumbling passes for level 9 and 10 girls

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I've noticed that every level 9 or 10 women's floor routine seems to have 3 tumbling passes. However, unless I missed something, I haven't found anywhere in the rules where the number of tumbling passes required is specified.

Are there any clarifications/interpretations/rules I might have missed stating that Level 9 and 10 gymnasts have to have exactly 3 passes? Could they have 2 or 4? If they have to have 3, would a single isolated skill (ie a punch rudi) count as one of the 3?

While I'm at it, there are deductions for tumbling and release skill difficulty "not being up to the competitive level." Is this defined somewhere, or left solely to the judges discretion?

 

[gymcoach34]

3 is common, bc it would be hard to have 2 and fit in the requirements....esp for L10.I guess if you have a kid who is a great combo tumbler it could work. I think it has to have 2 elements to be considered a "series". 4 passes is overkill & you are asking for deductions. The one you have to realy be careful of is the "B=L9 or C -L10 salto in the last pass/combo of elements"-you have to make sure the pass works so you dont lose the requirement. there are lots of examples in the code what works & what doesnt & why.

The composition deductions are up to the judges, obviously within the guidelines. They definitely want to see variety of skills-both tumbling & dance. Even if you get that "up to the level deduction"- a clean routine will almost always score higher. That deduction comes in to play mostly at States or higher.. esp at regionals/nationals so they can differiatate between the routines. That is also explained in the code more fully. Hope this helps!

 

[bookworm]

I've noticed that every level 9 or 10 women's floor routine seems to have 3 tumbling passes. However, unless I missed something, I haven't found anywhere in the rules where the number of tumbling passes required is specified.

Are there any clarifications/interpretations/rules I might have missed stating that Level 9 and 10 gymnasts have to have exactly 3 passes? Could they have 2 or 4? If they have to have 3, would a single isolated skill (ie a punch rudi) count as one of the 3?

While I'm at it, there are deductions for tumbling and release skill difficulty "not being up to the competitive level." Is this defined somewhere, or left solely to the judges discretion?

My daughter has always had at least 3 passes and in the last 3 years , she has had 4 passes, with one of them being a front tumbling pass.

If you only had the single skill, you might not get any of your connection value or bonus in. Something like a triple or 2 1/2 can stand alone or a double back/pike. I think if you did things not up to the conmpetitive level, you would mostly take a hit in the start value of the routine , as well as anything the judge might deduct.

 

[gymcoach34]

"up to the competitive level" does not come off start value

 

[bookworm]

What I meant by not up to the competitive level was if the gymnast isn't quite ready to compete Level 9 and continues to do her L8 skills (she should stay 8 but that's a whole other story..) , she will take the hit in the start value of her routine.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you only need 2 if ALL other requirements are met.

example: and if all other requirements are met.

2 1/2 twist punch front 1st pass. tuck double back 2nd pass. this is all you need if all other requirements are met.

you could do 4 passes but they will take deduction because that's what they do. most kids need 3 to meet the tumbling requirements. but the above meets them because of the difficulty.

less is more at all optional levels.

 

[gympanda]

While I'm at it, there are deductions for tumbling and release skill difficulty "not being up to the competitive level." Is this defined somewhere, or left solely to the judges discretion?

There is specific language for this deduction for bars, but not for the other events. I've been asking for clarification for a few years on this deduction and it really does seem to be up to the judges discretion. As I mentioned in a different post, we've always been told to compare to what we would expect to see at a State meet...so we tend to go from there. I'm hopeful one day it might be more clearly defined, so we can stay consistant from meet to meet throughout the season.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

you only need 2 if ALL other requirements are met.

example: and if all other requirements are met.

2 1/2 twist punch front 1st pass. tuck double back 2nd pass. this is all you need if all other requirements are met.

you could do 4 passes but they will take deduction because that's what they do. most kids need 3 to meet the tumbling requirements. but the above meets them because of the difficulty.

Ok, so in theory, could it be done in one pass? We're of course leaving the realm of the realistic and venturing into the hypothetical, but could a gymnast, for example, do back 3/2, front layout, front 3/2, and have that as their only tumbling pass in the routine? That would fulfill all tumbling requirements (3 different saltos within the excercise, two saltos within the same pass), and would give the gymnast the full difficulty + connection bonus (.2 for the C-B connection, .2 for the B-D connection, and .1 for the D) necessary for a 10.0 start. That would just leave the turn requirement, the leap series, and one more A or B, and that could be the whole routine, right?

less is more at all optional levels.

Agreed.

 

[gympanda]

Ok, so in theory, could it be done in one pass? We're of course leaving the realm of the realistic and venturing into the hypothetical, but could a gymnast, for example, do back 3/2, front layout, front 3/2, and have that as their only tumbling pass in the routine? That would fulfill all tumbling requirements (3 different saltos within the excercise, two saltos within the same pass), and would give the gymnast the full difficulty + connection bonus (.2 for the C-B connection, .2 for the B-D connection, and .1 for the D) necessary for a 10.0 start. That would just leave the turn requirement, the leap series, and one more A or B, and that could be the whole routine, right?

Actually assuming there is a roundoff backhandspring before the back 3/2, and assuming your turn is at least a B and there is at least one B leap in your leap series you won't need any more skills. (Um, I'm assuming a roundoff is listed in the code as an A...there is always a possibility it isn't listed at all...stranger things have happened.) It would hypothetically fulfill all requirements. I've never seen a routine like this, but have a feeling I would enjoy it

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Ok, so suppose we have:

Switch leap (B)
Sissone (A)

3/2 turn (B)

Hitch kick (A)

Roundoff (A)
Back 3/2 (C)
Front layout (B)
Front 3/2 (D)

This would have a 10.0 start at L10, right?

I would love to see somebody do this at a meet.

 

[gymcoach34]

I guess I dont understand the purpose of just one pass????, While it may fulfill the requirements.... im sure there would be some type of composition & artistry deduction.There would also be deductions of the dance not being up to the evel of the tumbling..and for lack of variety on the tumbling. There are so many ways to play to a gymnasts strengths, and I'm not sure putting all the tumbling in one pass would be one of them.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

This is all hypothetical -- just a question about rules interpretations.

 

[gymcoach34]

ok- now I get it!

 

[CoachTodd]

It looks like you're forgetting the fact that the judges would like to see about a 1 1/2 min floor routine with some presentation and dance. The routine also needs a dismount or you lose 3 tenths. Would you plan on dancing for a minute the doing on tumbling pass? I don't think you'll get the score you're looking for.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

It looks like you're forgetting the fact that the judges would like to see about a 1 1/2 min floor routine with some presentation and dance. The routine also needs a dismount or you lose 3 tenths. Would you plan on dancing for a minute the doing on tumbling pass? I don't think you'll get the score you're looking for.

Well again, this is hypothetical.

But the dismount would be covered, since the final (and only) pass contains a C salto.

 

[gympanda]

It fulfills all of the requirements and would start from a 10. That single tumbling pass would fulfill the requirement of the final tumbling pass. The only composition point I would see would be balance between acro and dance, since all of your C & D skills (and bonus) are coming from tumbling. Make it a switch-side popa and I'm not seeing too many other problems. Your extra Cs would count for Bs and As if you need them to.

I would actually enjoy seeing this routine a whole lot more than most of the routines we see with 20 or 25 skills, many of which are unnecessary.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Well again, this is hypothetical.

But the dismount would be covered, since the final (and only) pass contains a C salto.

yes, this is correct. and the music only has to be 60 seconds. or maybe it's 70. can't recall at the moment and my wife is out.

 

[mpkbt]

What is the actual minimum time for a floor routine? I was told for 9 and 10 it was 45 seconds. Is this right?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Page 214 of the code lists a 2.00 deduction for a routine shorter than 30 seconds. I haven't yet found anything else about short routines.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

What is the actual minimum time for a floor routine? I was told for 9 and 10 it was 45 seconds. Is this right?

my wife is now home. minimum is 70 seconds. the clock starts when the gymnast moves and stops when they stop.