Parents Olivia Dunne

[gym_dad32608]

So, is your definition of success getting a 10? So only gymnasts that get 10's are good? I think you are continuing the perception that unless you are perfect you are not a good gymnast. Personally, I think that does a disservice to all gymnasts, the ones who get 10's and the ones who "only" get a 9.8 or 9.9. This thought process continues the perception of little girls having to be perfect in order to be considered good. Do we put the same perfection standards on male college gymnasts? I don't think we do, but it could be that because men's college teams use the execution/difficulty scoring system, they never get 10's or the equivalent so they don't have the same perfection standards. Just another thing women have to deal with in order to be successful. Just for this perfectionism issues, I am in favor of all women's gymnastics (maybe not compulsories and lower-level Xcel) moving to the same Olympic scoring system that the men use. It would take the "having to be perfect" right out of the conversation.

OMG! Like Pineapple says, its not a dig. How about this, her college career has been disappointing. Is that soft enough? Its the reality of it. There are literally tons of uber-talented elite gymnasts who for whatever reason had less-than-stellar college careers. Jazmin Foberg, barely competed for UF, Madison Kocian was a role athlete for UCLA, Morgan Hurd has yet to compete(although she is only a redshirt freshman) and many others. Its a fact, I am not holding her to some unrealistic standard. It has nothing to do with "little girls having to be perfect".

 

[gymgal]

Dunne consistently contributed to LSU's team score for bars and floor, usually 3rd or 4th highest bar score. There is no way that could be considered mediocre or disappointing on a top 5 team.

on a side note, the fact that she is fearful of attending class in person for her safety really shows how crazy this whole social media boom has become and she is not alone in this predicament.

 

[gym_dad32608]

Dunne consistently contributed to LSU's team score for bars and floor, usually 3rd or 4th highest bar score. There is no way that could be considered mediocre or disappointing on a top 5 team.

on a side note, the fact that she is fearful of attending class in person for her safety really shows how crazy this whole social media boom has become and she is not alone in this predicament.

I had to go through to confirm I dont have some bias that I am missing something. Last year she competed 3 times, all on bars, 2 contributing scores with both 9.85, the other a 9.65. She did not compete on floor at all last year. I follow SEC gymnastics with a passion, and I know previous years were similar in her utilization, that is 3 times one event out of 15 meets. Statistically, that is nothing that you have any power with. I dont think that is enough to say she "consistently contributed". But whatever, she has had a stellar collegiate career!

 

[GymDadWA]

OMG! Like Pineapple says, its not a dig. How about this, her college career has been disappointing. Is that soft enough? Its the reality of it. There are literally tons of uber-talented elite gymnasts who for whatever reason had less-than-stellar college careers. Jazmin Foberg, barely competed for UF, Madison Kocian was a role athlete for UCLA, Morgan Hurd has yet to compete(although she is only a redshirt freshman) and many others. Its a fact, I am not holding her to some unrealistic standard. It has nothing to do with "little girls having to be perfect".

I follow what you are saying. For a general sports fan it's like the difference between saying "I had a successful collegiate career" (starter, won individual awards and recognitions, etc.) vs. saying "I played in college".

 

[gymgal]

I had to go through to confirm I dont have some bias that I am missing something. Last year she competed 3 times, all on bars, 2 contributing scores with both 9.85, the other a 9.65. She did not compete on floor at all last year. I follow SEC gymnastics with a passion, and I know previous years were similar in her utilization, that is 3 times one event out of 15 meets. Statistically, that is nothing that you have any power with. I dont think that is enough to say she "consistently contributed". But whatever, she has had a stellar collegiate career!

Your memory is off. check the previous year, 2022 and 2021. She competed and contributed more regularly. She had an ankle injury just before the 2023 season, which is why she did not compete much last season.

I follow what you are saying. For a general sports fan it's like the difference between saying "I had a successful collegiate career" (starter, won individual awards and recognitions, etc.) vs. saying "I played in college".

She is a starter. When not injured, she has been in the line up and her scores have counted for most meets. Would she say she has had a successful career? Maybe not because I am sure she would want to compete more events, no injuries but her scores show she has been successful.

 

[gym_dad32608]

Your memory is off. check the previous year, 2022 and 2021. She competed and contributed more regularly. She had an ankle injury just before the 2023 season, which is why she did not compete much last season.

Livvy is that you? lol. Ok so 2021 she competed 12 times all on bars for a 9.84 average 0 on floor. In 2022 she competed 11 times on bars with a 9.79 average and 6 times on floor with a 9.85 average. So in her 3 year career so far she has competed 26 times on bars out of approximately 45 opportunities. And 6 times for floor. At this stage of her collegiate career, she contributes about 50% of the time on one event. I still stand by not being able to call her a consistent contributor on floor. Who knows maybe her senior year she will be pushing Bryant or Arenas for all-around?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

9.85, the other a 9.65.

wow 9.85 is mediocre

LSU Gymnastics Statistics

lsusports.net

 

[Kara]

Dunne is an average college gymnast who's been constantly injured. If it weren't for her social media presence no one would be talking about her at all. Not saying that's a bad thing, she, or whoever manages her, saw an opportunity to market herself and successfully took advantage of it, and an average college gymnast is still better than about 99% of gymnasts in the country.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

wow 9.85 is mediocre

LSU Gymnastics Statistics

lsusports.net

Well from those stats you are not helping your argument- aside from Elena Arena who competed bars twice as much and contributed significantly on the other events (and a typo on her bars average). LD is the lowest scorer on bars the only event she did for the team. To classify her contribution to the team score as mediocre is actually generous in comparison to every other athlete on the team that competed the 2023 season. LD's score contributions are the 'worst' on the team for the 2023 season of the athletes that competed.

Her performances this year for what ever reason are well below the expectation and her ability assuming she was healthy. Due to the shocking bad luck/injury management LSU had, I feel like LD stepped in when perhaps they would not have used her at all - this discussion would be a moot point because she would have no scores like five other athletes on her team.

NCAA scoring is inflated and a different beast. Often it is frustrating as the separation is not there, between the good and the great. You have to assess it for what it is. For a top team like LSU, counting scores below 9.8 are going to potentially result in a loss for the team, they are aiming to win and you need the 9.9+ routines to do that. One score of 9.85 is not anything to write home about for a top team. It's a solid score, but it is mediocre in that circumstance.

 

[cmg]

Well from those stats you are not helping your argument- aside from Elena Arena who competed bars twice as much and contributed significantly on the other events (and a typo on her bars average). LD is the lowest scorer on bars the only event she did for the team. To classify her contribution to the team score as mediocre is actually generous in comparison to every other athlete on the team that competed the 2023 season. LD's score contributions are the 'worst' on the team for the 2023 season of the athletes that competed.

Her performances this year for what ever reason are well below the expectation and her ability assuming she was healthy. Due to the shocking bad luck/injury management LSU had, I feel like LD stepped in when perhaps they would not have used her at all - this discussion would be a moot point because she would have no scores like five other athletes on her team.

NCAA scoring is inflated and a different beast. Often it is frustrating as the separation is not there, between the good and the great. You have to assess it for what it is. For a top team like LSU, counting scores below 9.8 are going to potentially result in a loss for the team, they are aiming to win and you need the 9.9+ routines to do that. One score of 9.85 is not anything to write home about for a top team. It's a solid score, but it is mediocre in that circumstance.

The scoring issue mentioned above is another reason why women's college gymnastics should move to the Olympic scoring system. As I mentioned before, it would also eliminate the strive for the perfect 10 score.

As far as LD not contributing to the team as "expected" I will agree to that. But injuries and possibly all the media distractions that she faces are part of this equation. She is after all human, and no one really knows the pressures she faces as a student athlete and a media sensation. I would not want all this attention and frenzy for my daughter. I bet the coaches have some opinions on the media attention that would be interesting to hear. On the one hand she brings a lot of attention to women's gymnastics, on the other hand the mobs of fans (mostly guys) are totally out of hand. As other athletes get bigger NIL deals it will be interesting to see how these deals affect their athletic performance. I think the other female athletes who have gotten media attention are basketball stars and so we will see how they perform next season.

The sports world demands a lot from college athletes. Any sign of weakness or perceived failure and the critiques are harsh. College athletes are, quite frankly, still children. At the D1 level many of them are almost professionals in terms of ability and performance and go on to represent the USA and other countries in national events including the Olympics. To make to the Olympics you are a professional athlete whether you are getting paid to be an athlete or not. I don't think most of us can really understand all the pressures that affect sports performance.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

. One score of 9.85 is not anything to write home about for a top team. It's a solid score, but it is mediocre in that circumstance.

She has multiple scores of 9.865 and higher including multiple scores of 9.9

So to you and @gym_dad32608 the definition of mediocre is a relative thing.

So the person on the US Olympic team (each cycle). Who scores the lowest of the team is a mediocre gymnast.

Simone in 2020 because she had to drop out of events is only a mediocre gymnast.

If you are not a top performer on your team, no matter the team. You are mediocre.

I see it differently. The mediocre L10 gymnasts didn’t make it to college gymnastics. Not even at D3. If you are a L10 and are on any college team you are better than a mediocre gymnast. And if you make it on to a Div 1 team and they use you and you are scoring 9.8s and 9.9s when you compete and your goes to division championship. You are not mediocre gymnast. There may be gymnasts better than you. You may not be the top performer on the team, because they have a deep talent pool. But you are not a mediocre gymnast.
You might be a mediocre Div 1 gymnast. But you are not a mediocre gymnast.

 

[Coach Kate]

There was a another discussion on this and how to measure success in sports. Everyone who reaches a certain level is far more talented than most, but there is still a hierarchy within that level. Trinity Thomas is a more successful college gymnast than Olivia Dunner. It isn't mean, it's just a fact. She is more valuable to her team, she has more national and conference titles, and higher average scores on more events. My example from outside of gymnastics was that Patrick Mahomes is a better quarterback than Geno Smith. He just is. Smith is better than most people, but he is not the best. Same with Jonathan Owens. He is on an NFL team, but he is most famous for being married to Simone Biles. He is still better than so many people, but he is not in that top tier.

 

[gym_dad32608]

She has multiple scores of 9.865 and higher including multiple scores of 9.9

So to you and @gym_dad32608 the definition of mediocre is a relative thing.

So the person on the US Olympic team (each cycle). Who scores the lowest of the team is a mediocre gymnast.

Simone in 2020 because she had to drop out of events is only a mediocre gymnast.

If you are not a top performer on your team, no matter the team. You are mediocre.

I see it differently. The mediocre L10 gymnasts didn’t make it to college gymnastics. Not even at D3. If you are a L10 and are on any college team you are better than a mediocre gymnast. And if you make it on to a Div 1 team and they use you and you are scoring 9.8s and 9.9s when you compete and your goes to division championship. You are not mediocre gymnast. There may be gymnasts better than you. You may not be the top performer on the team, because they have a deep talent pool. But you are not a mediocre gymnast.
You might be a mediocre Div 1 gymnast. But you are not a mediocre gymnast.

It seems you are so blinded in defending her that you are not reading what is said. No one is saying that in total she is a mediocre gymnast. If anything we are saying she is an amazing gymnast, and because of that, her COLLEGE career has been mediocre. As a junior elite, national team member, it was/is reasonable to expect OD to be a consistent all-arounder major contributor on the team, along the lines of Haleigh Bryant. For whatever reason, injuries, social media demands, etc, for the last 3 years she has not contributed at that level. Yes she has competed a few times, primarily on one event, but in comparison to her cohort on the team, she has had a mediocre career. LSU is not going to miss her out of the line-up. That doesn't erase all she accomplished prior to college or the fact that any college gymnast is talented. Her talent has not been validated by her performance in college, that is all.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

. My example from outside of gymnastics was that Patrick Mahomes is a better quarterback than Geno Smith. He just is. Smith is better than most people, but he is not the best. Same with Jonathan Owens. He is on an NFL team, but he is most famous for being married to Simone Biles. He is still better than so many people, but he is not in that top tier.

Actually that is exact my point.

Geno Smith is not a mediocre quarterback.

He might be a mediocre NFL/professional quarterback.

The mediocre quarterbacks never got drafted.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The sports world demands a lot from college athletes. Any sign of weakness or perceived failure and the critiques are harsh. College athletes are, quite frankly, still children. At the D1 level many of them are almost professionals in terms of ability and performance and go on to represent the USA and other countries in national events including the Olympics. To make to the Olympics you are a professional athlete whether you are getting paid to be an athlete or not. I don't think most of us can really understand all the pressures that affect sports performance.

And I’m sure this contributes to many mental issues of theses athletes and a frightening high suicide rate. Especially among female athletes and across all sports.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It seems you are so blinded in defending her that you are not reading what is said.

Actually I’m not defending Ms. Dunne, she just happens to be the gymnast mentioned. Ms. Dunne doesn’t need anyone to defend her. I‘m sure she far to busy practicing and counting her money.

I’m defending college gymnasts in general. If Ms Dunne is mediocre there are far many more who should just hang up their grips because why bother?

I’m saying if you are an aspiring L10, (even L9) college gymnast who makes to college and competes, or are
a college gymnast currently competing on a college team or practicing every day waiting for your chance and you are reading this thread. Or you are a parent of one of these gymmies reading this thread.

You are not a mediocre gymnast.

 

[JBS]

I have to say... I love the conversation going on here. As college gymnastics pushes further and further into the forefront of sporting... fans will become more and more critical of their performances. I don't see anything wrong with this at all. If someone that is expected to pull 9.95's is getting 9.85's... well... that's pretty much going to lead to the exact talk that we are getting. Let's face it... a 9.85 average team is not going to win...

Standings

Standings : NCAA Gymnastics results, statistics, schedules, teams, and gymnasts. Building the most comprehensive source on the web.

roadtonationals.com

What is important is that teams / schools are providing ways to help the athletes deal / cope with and talk about the demands of what is becoming basically the level of a pro sport. Fans can be brutal... but college gymnastics called down the thunder... now there are more and more fans each and every year...

How Greg Marsden built a women's sports dynasty

Greg Marsden led the Utah gymnastics team to 10 national titles and the highest attendance records of any women's collegiate sport. His marketing playbook is one every program may want to copy.

www.espn.com

 

[cmg]

I have to say... I love the conversation going on here. As college gymnastics pushes further and further into the forefront of sporting... fans will become more and more critical of their performances. I don't see anything wrong with this at all. If someone that is expected to pull 9.95's is getting 9.85's... well... that's pretty much going to lead to the exact talk that we are getting. Let's face it... a 9.85 average team is not going to win...

Standings

Standings : NCAA Gymnastics results, statistics, schedules, teams, and gymnasts. Building the most comprehensive source on the web.

roadtonationals.com

What is important is that teams / schools are providing ways to help the athletes deal / cope with and talk about the demands of what is becoming basically the level of a pro sport. Fans can be brutal... but college gymnastics called down the thunder... now there are more and more fans each and every year...

How Greg Marsden built a women's sports dynasty

Greg Marsden led the Utah gymnastics team to 10 national titles and the highest attendance records of any women's collegiate sport. His marketing playbook is one every program may want to copy.

www.espn.com

The key is teams supporting athletes. I don't know or have any facts, but I am guessing most colleges are behind the curve on this. Only since the pandemic has mental health really been a thing and now you can't even find a counselor. It helped that the best gymnast in the world had to pull out of the Olympics due to mental health issues. I feel like programs are starting to address mental health more openly, but I think most athletes don't want to recognize when they need help.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Dunne consistently contributed to LSU's team score for bars and floor, usually 3rd or 4th highest bar score. There is no way that could be considered mediocre or disappointing on a top 5 team.

on a side note, the fact that she is fearful of attending class in person for her safety really shows how crazy this whole social media boom has become and she is not alone in this predicament.

Are you her PR person? Let it go already!

 

[JBS]

To clarify my whole 9.85... 9.95 thing... if you are on a top college team... there is pretty much the expectation of 9.95's. To make the team in the first place shows that the coaches believe you are a 9.95+ somewhere.