Practice hours advice

[putri]

Hi! We're Americans in the UK...

It's been almost 6 mo that dd's been trained in artistic gymnastics and per YouTube videos dd's a level 3 (although I saw no difference in vault between level 3 and 4 and her bar might be an almost level 3, she can't put her feet together on the bar with hands holding on and dismount this way on own). Her floor gets more solid each practice and the rest improves every other week. Oh, she'll be 8 in a few weeks but she's the same height as a 5/6 yrs old.

Here's the issue... She wants to be serious in gymnastics and want to do this long term, up to college too. She's currently doing 4.5 hrs and I can't get her anymore. The next step is 6.5 hrs but after talking to the person in charge the space is full... Coach shortage... And I couldn't get an estimate time on when it's even possible for dd to add that time. I told this coach everything and what dd's current long term goals are. I talked to my friend in the US, her dd just got to level 4 and doing 12hrs with 8/9 hrs when level 3. Browsing this forum, it looks like most everybody has more than what dd can get here.

We'll be here 5 more years. If dd decides to just go for fun or quit altogether down the road I will be completely fine. Her body that's doing it and not mine. But since this is now what she wants I want to try to help her get there now.

We did try out at another gym. She can get into a squad there too but it'll be no more than 4hrs/week practice.

So, it seems like at her level practice is around 4-6hrs. At our gym, if you go up again it'll be 10hrs max but it's by invitation only... Not skills.

I tried to sign dd up for a vault and floor class, 2hrs, but the gym manager said it's not recommended. I don't get it since I heard it'll be the same coach teaching.

I have no idea what level she'll be at 13 or if she'll still be in gym but if she keeps it up, won't she be way behind by the time we get back? Is she ok for now?

 

[bogwoppit]

I hear you, it is very much like that in small town Quebec. The most any girl trained at our club was 12 hours and they would be competiting against girls who do up to 25 hours a week training. Most girls at about L3 here only train 5 hours a week, that is all that is available for them until they advance levels. We also do not have enough coaches, have very limited space, are dealing with long commutes. Our coaches also like to have all school holidays off so they can be with their children at home, so most girls only train 32 weeks a year.

Our options are to drive to a gym about an hour away or more realisitically 90 minutes away, though with traffic this can be 2-3 hours one way. So most people just accept the limitations of the sport in our area, and that their girls will never take gym to that next level.

Inviation to team is normal so expecting a move to a higher level, and more hours, based on skills alone can be frustrating.

I totally get the frustration, but I am not sure how you can make the UK system work long term for a US collge goal without searching out other gyms that already offer more hours. Ideally she would be reaching USAG L10 by the time she is 15 to be able to have college opportunities. (I think)

 

[bookworm]

I guess if I were in your shoes (knowing I will be in the UK for 5 more years and the limitations that gymnastics has there) , as she is only 8 years old, I would steer her towards a different activity where she could maximize her potential. Knowing that she'll only ever get the 5 or 6 hours a week ( and you say that at 8 she has a goal of "competing in college"...but does she even know what that means?) will be an exercise in frustration for you if y​ou continue. And not to be harsh, I would just cut it out cold turkey and move on to something else...dance, acro...and be done with it.

 

[rd7]

Hi, don't give up just yet, my DD went from 4.5 hours to 6 to 8 hours in less than a year in our system. As long as you are at a club that competes regional/national grades then the hours will be there as she progresses.

My suggestion in the meantime - find a good trampolining club as an add on. DD started tramp at 1.5hrs which quickly rose to 3hrs and now they are asking for 6 hrs. She says she sometimes finds the conditioning harder than that at the gym. Plus it really helps with body awareness and she has no fear of back tumbling due to the skills she is learning on the tramp being much harder than her current floor ability.

Gymnastics isn't limited here for those that really have the right attitude and want to work, that will go a long way with her coaches - we just don't have the opportunities for as many gymnasts as in the US and it doesn't lead to college in the UK. (Although I believe you have Marissa King competing for Florida at the moment?)

However on the bright side, most gyms are not run as a profit making business, whilst the head and elite coaches may get paid (just) the rest of us are usually volunteers and all are properly qualified with gymnastics coaching qualifications, CRB checks and updated child protection certificates.

If you are here for 5 years then your DD will be 12/13 when you arrive back in the US? That gives her a couple of years to really up her training (if needed) before college if she is still in gymnastics - all is not lost

 

[emorymom]

I feel your pain here in the US. DD is 8 and loves gym and would like to be there 12 hours a week, but they only let her come 4 because she struggles to perfect lower level skills (hello, then wouldn't it be lovely if she had more hours?). So she does dance 4-6 hours and diving 3 hours.

 

[Faith]

Hi

I was going to reply to your PM- but I'll post here instead as it's easier from the phone ...

Pretty much what rd7 said above. The UK system is very different from the US system, they're not at all comparable. We currently are very much focussed on Long Term Athlete Development- taking it slow, building solid foundations, decreasing injury and burn out and maintaing a life balance, especially when young. Someone (bog?) posted the canadian version recently which is worth reading, especially re. hours.

So at ages 6/7/8 training will be conditioning and flexibility, form, and good basics. They won't give the hours just yet as she is new, and throwing her into 10 or 12 hours a week will lead to injury, or soreness, and if she's sore she won't like it and will quit sooner rather than later .

The club you tried out at has national gymnasts and an excellent reputation. If she gets on squad there she will reach her potential, and probably the same at your current club, at least until she gets to a higher level.

It is difficult, as there's not the clear progression. I do sometimes think it is better though, as things are based more on the individual gymnast, and what they need. My DD was the same, she was going once a week for 3 hours, and just as I got worried about it not being enough, it was bumped to 11! And because she has the solid basics, she's progressing well. The 4-6 hours at her current level is normal, and they'll be watching and assessing, and will bump her up when they think she's ready.

Btw, the floor and vault thing is not a good idea as it's a different path completely. F+V in this country is a competition system designed to keep those kids in the sport, when maybe they don't have the ability/time/dedication for 4 piece. Once thing I have noticed that the first year DD was on squad her progress slowed compared to F+V, and even rec gymnasts. Because they get everything right, with good form, whereas to keep it fun the less serious gymnasts are allowed to try new skills without perfecting old ones.

Also bear in mind that they're not competing yet. I think that makes a difference with the hours at this level, as they can focus on learning skills rather than practicing routines. I sometimes think reading here that most of the hours at level 3/4 are spent doing their current level routines, and they have less time to learn new ones and up train, so I wouldn't compare to your friends daughter too much.

A ballet/trampolining class might be a good idea meanwhile...

Good luck!

 

[Aussie_coach]

First thing to do is check the record this gym has for getting gymnasts into college gymnastics programs. If they have never got a kid in, or have only got a few. They probably don't have what it takes to get your daughter there. Many gyms can do it once or twice with a super talented gymnast, but don't really have the skills to do it.

 

[putri]

Bookworm, quitting cold turkey is not an option. I don't believe in quitting for this kind of reason. I've never seen her so passionate about anything before and it'd crush her. She does though have other activities. She does piano. Her teacher said she's talented but dd's not passionate about it. She likes it and that's about it. She swims but she's definitely not good at it. She does ballet, Royal ballet. Just received her ballet exam results and she not only got distinction but the highest score for the whole school. To be honest, I was surprised. Dd was too. I mean she's good but I never thought her to be that good in terms of grace But, even after getting high marks she still just loves going to ballet and an hour of it is enough for her (too bad because I can get more hours in easier at ballet than gym). She just quit French. Extra hours. I am a bit disappointed cause it's the most academic of all her activities but c'est la vie. But, she just started taking drawing lessons and LOVES it... That's her other passion.

So, she doesn't have all her eggs in one nest but despite all her activities she rather have more gym hours if possible.

RD7, thanks for the info! I looked up Marissa King and she went to the gym that we tried out at, the one with only 4hrs, so that is great to know! The coaching quality was a lot better than the one dd's at now, they have an Olympic 2012 guy too, but it's 40min away although with Cambridge traffic an hour is more realistic. While the drive itself isn't bad, they start at 4p and dd gets out of school at 3:15p. I do take my 2.5yrs there because it's the only one with a structured session around here.

The good news is we want to move houses. The other good news is that we technically have access to four gym clubs (one we're in and the one we tried out) depending on whether we move east, north, or west of hubby's work place. So, as somebody posted, I am going to see if the other gyms has the possibility of doing more than 10hrs in the long run - and be completely fine with 4.5hrs now if that's how things are here (and if Marissa is a college gymnast and she was most likely at 4 hrs years ago then there's hope). I will also look at trampoline clubs. I didn't think of that!! There are a few around here that are of good standards. I'll see if dd wants to do it. She just never talk about her trampolining accomplishments at gym.

Thank you! This has been very informational!!

 

[putri]

Faith, thanks for the reply!!

I will quit comparing our friend's (and other US gymnasts in this forum) hours to dd. When dd told me what she wants from gym I got a bit worried about the hours, especially after I heard from my friend that her dd is doing 12hrs now. I thought, "Yikes, dd will never have the chance."

I already feel bad about waiting 1.5yrs before getting her back into the gym. I din't know there are rec gyms and competitive ones in the UK. I thought all are the same, you go to gym, move up and eventually compete. So I got her on a waiting list for a rec gym when I should have signed her up at a competitive gym. We were only in rec for a little bit when one of the coach approached me and said that dd has talent and I should take her to the current gym (closest to us at 20-30 min and in our county).

I am afraid of making the same mistake, waiting or just not finding the right place, now that she has a better feel and goal. I know she's still little but she's not one to flip flop when she has her heart set... Silly example, she still likes the same boy from 1.5 yrs ago

I do feel a bit silly asking about college etc just because she's still 7 but gymnastics seems like the only sport where starting out young is important.

 

[marie83]

Just to echo what the others have said really, don't give up just yet.
I was also going to recommend a trampolining class as a top up as rd7 says.

In the meantime, take a look at the club's upper level gymnasts - what is the top level they compete? What are the competition scores like? But more importantly, is the club friendly? Are they gym marked? What is communication like? What is the coaching standard like?
There is more to this sport than hours, but the club does need to be a good fit for your child!
Ask the coaches to be honest with you - other than coach shortage, what is holding her back from doing more hours?
10-12 hours per week is pretty average here for this age group.

Have they said whether she will be competing grades this year?

 

[rd7]

If you can get your DD in the squad at Huntingdon (don't know which club you're at now) then I'd go for it, even if it is a 40 min drive! Maybe her teachers would let her out of school 10 mins early on gym days? Worth asking.

 

[putri]

In the meantime, take a look at the club's upper level gymnasts - what is the top level they compete? What are the competition scores like? But more importantly, is the club friendly? Are they gym marked? What is communication like? What is the coaching standard like?

Have they said whether she will be competing grades this year?

Marie83, unfortunately I have no idea on the top level the upper level gymnast competes at or what is a good/bad score. For the gym mark, is the gym mark the same as the british mark? My gym, on the website has the british mark but I noticed some other clubs have the blue check gym mark.

How can a noob tell?

Dd is testing for grades next month. What score should I be looking for? For a girl who's been trained for 6.5 months then? Dd did gym before we moved here, 6 months and she was 5, but there was that 1.5yrs gap.

 

[putri]

If you can get your DD in the squad at Huntingdon (don't know which club you're at now) then I'd go for it, even if it is a 40 min drive! Maybe her teachers would let her out of school 10 mins early on gym days? Worth asking.

Can you ask this? The headmaster won't give me the dirty up down irresponsible parent look? The county police won't take me to bad parent jail for 4 weeks?

 

[rd7]

Can you ask this? The headmaster won't give me the dirty up down irresponsible parent look? The county police won't take me to bad parent jail for 4 weeks?

Most primary/junior schools should be pretty flexible with this request. Some are 100% inflexible so a quick telephone call to the school secretary may be in order first

If you take it to the head then an explanation of how the US college system works would help.

Good luck to your DD with the grades testing.

 

[marie83]

Marie83, unfortunately I have no idea on the top level the upper level gymnast competes at or what is a good/bad score. For the gym mark, is the gym mark the same as the british mark? My gym, on the website has the british mark but I noticed some other clubs have the blue check gym mark.

How can a noob tell?


Dd is testing for grades next month. What score should I be looking for? For a girl who's been trained for 6.5 months then? Dd did gym before we moved here, 6 months and she was 5, but there was that 1.5yrs gap.

Check on the BG website for gym marked clubs - Find a Club

It's not the be all and end all -but it helps you to know whether they are a safe, effective and child friendly club. They might be working towards it if they haven't got it.

As for grades - I haven't got my book on me at the moment - The routines at grade 14 are marked out of 13.5 provided all skills are performed properly. There is also Range and Conditioning. So in total gymnasts are marked out of 67.5. The top score in my region last year was 63.6. But really at this grade scores shouldn't really be worried about.
An average of 10 on each apparatus will secure a 'pass'

I'm with RD7 If you can get to Huntingdon, I'd do it - especially if your DD is loving gym at the mo and isn't quite getting everything she wants from it. At least then you know they have top coaches who will nurture talent and will hopefully be honest with you about your DD's prospects and help to achieve them if possible!

 

[bookworm]

Bookworm, quitting cold turkey is not an option. I don't believe in quitting for this kind of reason. I've never seen her so passionate about anything before and it'd crush her. She does though have other activities. She does piano. Her teacher said she's talented but dd's not passionate about it. She likes it and that's about it. She swims but she's definitely not good at it. She does ballet, Royal ballet. Just received her ballet exam results and she not only got distinction but the highest score for the whole school. To be honest, I was surprised. Dd was too. I mean she's good but I never thought her to be that good in terms of grace But, even after getting high marks she still just loves going to ballet and an hour of it is enough for her (too bad because I can get more hours in easier at ballet than gym). She just quit French. Extra hours. I am a bit disappointed cause it's the most academic of all her activities but c'est la vie. But, she just started taking drawing lessons and LOVES it... That's her other passion.

So, she doesn't have all her eggs in one nest but despite all her activities she rather have more gym hours if possible.

QUOTE]*************************************************************************





Scwilder, I didn't mean to offend you when I said to quit cold turkey...and I wouldn't say she was "quitting" the sport per se but rather dealing with the realities of what was available to you for your 5 yrs in the UK. I know the UK has some decent gymnasts (King, Tweddle, Francis) and they've obviously trained a significant amount of hours but from your post, I figured that hooking up with one of those clubs (with increased hours and maybe a longer drive) just was not an option for you so that's why I suggested doing something else...but it seems like she already IS doing many other things. So good luck with your search for a club in the UK that fits her needs!

 

[putri]

Bookworm, not offended No worries

 

[Deleted member D3987]

seems to me that you need to network with those doing gymnastics nearby where you live. maybe a long drive will be necessary to augment her training. ?

 

[putri]

Good gosh, I have no idea where to start in the networking business

To everybody who have replied to this post: THANK YOU!! You all are soooo awesome! I wouldn't have known about the trampoline option, Marissa King (dd was also thrilled with the fact that Marissa's half Asian and started 'late'), and all the other ideas and suggestions. Oh, I also learned that a US level 10 is more less the same as a UK level 2.

Just an update, we're going to try out the gym that's up north and make our decision after we find or put a deposit on the house we're wanting to rent. The one up north, per their gymnasts profile page, seems to progress their development girls accordingly and given the appropriate hours at their level. Example: One girl was in rec, a few months later in development, and a year later she was doing grade 14 and level 5 competitions/exams and the next year level 4. While I have no idea if my dd is talented or not in terms of long term skills (the things I can really see is strength and flexibility and oh, she'll never be tall), and this girl they recruited was/is probably talented to begin with, the page gives me hope for proper development towards dd's current gym goal.

Also, I told dd of you all's trampolining idea and she loved it. After some looking I found a competitive club nearby. Although I don't care if she competes or not, I am assuming these clubs have higher conditioning standards. I just signed her up for the regular one hour and go from there.

Again thank you and I'll let you know, maybe in a month or two, where we're at.