Pre requisite skills

[Aussie_coach]

I was having an interesting debate with some other coaches, and all have a differing opinion on what they feel the pre requisite skills are for various tumbling skills. For example some coaches feel a back walkover and front walkover are essential before even touching a back or front handspring while other feel it is not important to have those skills.

What is your view on what the pre requisites should be (skill wise or strength wise for the following skills)

Back handspring

Front handspring

Back tuck

Front tuck

 

[All Chalked Up]

Depends. There's a girl I train with who has very little flexiblity so BWO causes her a problem. Though her BHS is probably one of the best I 've ever seen.

Before we even start standing back tucks a back handspring on the floor is essential so we are used to going backwards.

I feel that a FWO should be taught before starting FHS, though they don't have to be able to do it. Just to get used to going fowards on to your hands and flipping. Same girl that I talked about above has a very nice FHS but can very rarely do a FWO.

The girls must be able to FHS nicely before putting a front tuck on the floor.

I prefer for them to do front tucks before we start working back tucks. I find (and many other people do too) that front tuck is easier and less scary than back tuck, so front tuck first so they get used to flipping. Then back tuck.

I did this as a gymnast and worked very well for me. I have no fear flipping! I'm working on front handspring front lay and RO-BHS-BL.

We're starting walkovers with our pre-comp. kids. One of them can BWO and FWO nicely, so she is doing BHS and FHS. It's working for her too- no fear issues.

 

[BlairBob]

Back handspring: Ideally, BWO would be ideal as would back limber. However with some gymnasts (especially boys) this just may not happen. So long as they can do walkovers over a barrel, basic bridge maybe kickover (even on a wedge) I can work with it.

Front handspring: Ideally, front limber and good handstand ability (walking, popping, held) and of course proper lunge mechanics. However with some tumblers and boys or inflexible girls, I might just have deal with spotted front limbers or over a barrel.

Back tuck: Ideally back handspring and back pullover on tramp. Obviously basic tuck backward roll.

Front tuck: Preferably a flyspring on tramp, of course a forward roll and everything between those two skills. Basic stuff like seat to table and roll on tramp and working that to stand.

 

[Kiwi]

Interesting question. The new Steps system here is based on progressions, and it has these skills (amongst others like leaps and rolls):

Step 1: handstand, bridge
Step 2: cartwheel, bridge-kickover
Step 3: 2 cartwheels, RO, BWO
Step 4: RO-BHS, FHS to one foot
Step 5: RO-BHS-BHS, FHS to two feet, Tic-Toc, standing BHS to one foot
Step 6: RO-BHS-BT, FHS-Flyspring, standing BHS to two feet to straddle jump.

There is no FWO and no limbers. My DD can do FHS, but can't do FWO at all, she can sometimes manage a limber but not consistently.

 

[coachmolly]

Ideally, I like to see front and back walkovers before moving on to handsprings just because it has made the process easier in my experiences. But like BlairBob said, some girls just can't do walkovers due to lack of shoulder/back flexibility and still manage to learn bhs. So there is an exception to every rule. But it's pretty easy to tell if a gymnast can't do the prerequisite skill because of lack of basic ability/body awareness and control or just because their body is not made to bend that way. I've found that teaching bhs to inflexible girls is typically easier than teaching them fhs, but that could just be because the programs I've worked in have placed a much greater emphasis on basic back tumbling.
As far as front/back tucks, I won't think about teaching them until the girl has a front or back handspring on the floor. I'll sometimes let them play with front tucks off a springboard without a fhs, but I much prefer waiting. However, for T&T kids, I will teach a front tuck on the tramp before they have it on the floor just because that's how T&T level progressions work.
For back tucks, a really strong ro-bhs is necessary because incorrect ro-bhs-bt are hard to correct and because I'm not strong enough, nor am I willing, to chuck kids through the entire skill without some work on their part.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I should answer my own question also.

I have never required a front or back walkover before a front or back handspring. This is due to the fact that I teach MAG as well as WAG, and walkovers are unrealistic for most boys. Most girls I teach do have the walkovers first but I would not require it if the back and shoulder flexibility do not allow.

As a general rule

Back handspring - a good strong rebounding round off, courbette snap down off a spring board, hold a decent handstand, strong jump back to mat and basically a decent amount of leg power. I prefer they have the standing back handspring before the round off back handspring, even though the later is easier to learn.

Front handspring - solid handstand, handstand block, good round off (not that they need it for the skill but to show correct ability to hurdle and snap through a powerful skill).

Back tuck - good leg power and speed. Prefer the round off back handspring and standing back handspring to be solid or working the back tuck can sometimes ruin take off for the back handspring. I find this is rarely possible though. As soon as kids are solid back handspringers they usually start throwing themselves backwards on their home trampoline or a friends trampoline and start doing bad back tucks. So often it has to be taught earlier.

Front tucks - teach these earlier. For MAG they need a front tuck for level 3 vault, while a front handspring won't be needed until level 4. need explosive leg power, good body tension and control.

 

[wallinbl]

As soon as kids are solid back handspringers they usually start throwing themselves backwards on their home trampoline or a friends trampoline and start doing bad back tucks. So often it has to be taught earlier.

DD's coach has told the girls many times not to attempt a back tuck until they've gone through the drills with coaches. I don't know about the other girls when they're not at the gym, but it definitely sunk in with DD - she won't do anything close to it. They've done the drill so many times you'd figure they were ready, but the seem to keep doing them. The coach seems to see the back tuck as critical to get right the first time.

 

[CoachGoofy]

I coach T&T, so our competitive progressions are a bit different from WAG/MAGs.

If they can't hold themselves up in a bridge kickover, we're not doing backhandsprings. I also want them to be able to do a spotted backbend. We work bridge kickovers & backhandsprings at about the same time, bc shoulder flexibility can make doing a back walkover on flat impossible, while a backhandspring is totally feasible.

We work front limbers before we even think about front handsprings. If they can't get their feet together before putting them down, they're just not ready (and there's nothing like spotting a front flopover that has momentum behind it. oh my).

They all learn front tucks on trampoline/off double mini well before on floor, but if they cannot do a front roll off 2 feet & stand up with their hands in front of them, they aren't ready. I don't think this is setting an unreasonable bar =p

For back tucks, again, first they learn it on trampoline or off the double mini (spotting off the end of double mini is nice...it puts them at such a convenient spotting height...). They absolutely MUST be able to do a back roll to their feet every time. The knee landing habit, ugh. And I'd like them to have a backdrop pullover (& so would USAG T&T) but will compromise depending on the kid. On tumbling, they need a good solid roundoff several backhandsprings, & I want them to show good mechanics in a standing back tuck before we add it to anything.

And I'm way picky about roundoffs. If it's not going to make the backhandspring easier instead of harder, we're not doing roundoff backhandsprings yet. Backhandspring series, sure. But not cartwheel pikedown backhandspring.