Progressions ?

[meeeshymoo]

A quick question, picked dd up from gym and managed a quick chat with coach re upcoming competition. DD struggling with vault, I ask coach will she be competing handstand flatback or handspring on vault. Coach responded with OMG her handstand flatback is rubbish, but her handspring over the vault is beautiful (is having a small spot), but we can't progress to vault until she has mastered the handstand flatback.

I don't like to question as the coaches are far more knowledgeable on these things than me, but I wondered will there come a time when they abandon the handstand flatback and move to the table ?. It doesn't appear to be improving, in her last competition she headbutted the mats and scored 5. something eek.

She is very small for her age so think she does stuggle getting over the required height.

Any thoughts greatfully recieved

 

[flippinlolly]

I think a lot of it will depend on her coaches but most would say that if she's got the handspring nicely (even with a little spot) then they'd just move her onto that. To be honest I don't think that you use the basics of a handstand flatback as much as those of a handspring if I'm making sense. In harder vaults the handspring is far more essential than the flatback (although most find that they get the handstand flatback if they have the handspring). Some coaches may be desparate for her to get a good handstand flatback if they're quite perfectionistic and dont like having someone "skip" a skill but if she has the handspring (which is obviously harder and higher rated) I think that it would be wise to go onto that! At the moment I'd just leave it up to the coaches to decide but if it gets really stupid and its been going on for a while maybe you could chat with another/head coach and get their opinion? It may just be the one coach who's a bit fussy. But tbh I'd leave making a fuss for as long as you can see that its not hurting your DD too much because I know that sometimes it can be a little awkward if a parent has said something!

 

[meeeshymoo]

Thank you, I am very confident with her coaches so I will leave it to them. I think sometimes not coming from a gymnastics background or knowing too much about the sport, its all a mystery !! lol

 

[JennMene]

I think that saying "I don't think that you use the basics of a handstand flat back as much as those of a handspring..." is absurd. That is the equivalent of saying that you use very little of the basics of a back walkover when learning a back handspring on beam! The flat back technique is taught for a very specific reason, and that is to teach the right body positions and heal drive, timing for a proper block and other essentials for having a good handspring on vault. If your daughter has a "rubbish" flat back, chances are that even if her handspring over is decent, that perhaps the timing is off - which can lead to making future higher level vaults difficult for her.

The coach is right here - you should not move onto a harder skill just because you can do it "better" than the basic skill. Basics are taught to teach proper form in higher level skills. Give her more time - maybe she just has not yet grasped the concept of the flat back. Best of luck to her in the upcoming season.

 

[meeeshymoo]

Thank you JennMene, I understand what you are saying. Am sure dd will get there in her own time !

 

[Chalky]

I completely agree with what JennMene said. The Handspring Flatback is an important progression to the Handspring vault. Even if the flatback was not a competitive vault, I would still teach some version of it as a progression to handspring over the table.

The flatback basically isolates the first half of the Handspring vault. In USAG Level 4, there is not even a requirement to 'block' into a second or post-flight. I assume that is because they want to see correct positions in the first flight, before the kids have to worry about blocking.

There are many kids that can score 9.00 + at the equivalent of USAG Level 4 vault, but struggle to score that well on the full handspring vault (USAG Level 5 and 6). Part of the reason for this is because the deductions are greater at the higher levels, but also it is because any errors in the run, hurdle, board position, flight-on, body position and table contact and blocking angles will be amplified with the harder vault.

While I think it is important to respect the coach, I see no reason why the OP shouldn't ask WHY her daughter is not able to do the flatback correctly. If you can get the coach to break-down what aspect of the vault is lacking, maybe your daughter can focus on fixing that. Just making it to feet on a full handspring is NOT what the vault is about. Half our upper level rec kids can do THAT, and believe me it's not always pretty!

 

[BlairBob]

I would rather see them turn the handstand to flatback to handspring over a porta pit/mat stack before they do it over the table.

This means putting the handspring over the table to L6 which is fine by me, most L5 handsprings are pretty horrid while by L6 they are competent enough.

Or of course drop the handstand flatback to L3, over the mat stack to 4, and table at L5.