Parents Questioning Coach - Preteam - How to address

[perkyperk1027]

My daughter (10) is on pre-team level 3 and is loving it. The coach of her pre-team is good, but she has not made teaching roundoff back handsprings a priority for the girls. Up until a few weeks ago, none of them could do them unspotted, even on the tumble track.

My daughter has been doing hers for months on tumble track at open gyms, and a few weeks ago at open gym, a coach that was there spotted her on the floor and she can now do hers unspotted on the floor easily. She is still working on improving her form (bent knees and legs apart) but is getting frustrated because her coach is still not letting her do them unspotted at practice.

I am trying to trust the process and that there is a reason that she is approaching it this way, but then last week a team coach (who coaches the competitive level 3s and higher) subbed in for my daughter's practice, and after spotting my daughter for one on the tumble track, she allowed her to do it unspotted on the TT and a few times on the floor. And then last night at practice, her regular coach allowed a couple of the girls do theirs on the floor unspotted, but not my daughter (and one of the girls who did hers I have not previously seen do a solid one on the TT).

Their team has one more 'fun meet' this season and my daughter really wants to be able to do the skill in her routine and not be spotted and get the 'deduction' for having the spot. I've even taken her to a few private lessons at a local cheerleading gym to work only on the skill for an hour one-on-one (specifically to work on improving her form so that it is a really solid nice RBHS) (her coach will not let any of our pre-team girls schedule privates with her).

I (and my daughter) would like to talk to her coach to ask if she can do hers unspotted, but I don't know if it is worth bringing up or just waiting it out a couple of months until she goes through evaluations to get placed on team.

My initial thought was to approach it with her coach in more of a "I'd like to understand your thought process on why you are not having her do hers unspotted, when another coach was letting her." but I don't want to leave a bad impression and have that potentially impact my daughter's evaluations for team.

Any thoughts or feedback that I should consider?

 

[JBS]

"I'd like to understand your thought process on why you are not having her do hers unspotted, when another coach was letting her."

This would be the absolute worst way you could possibly ask the question.

Just ask about your daughter and her BHS. Do not bring up the other coach at all.

I would do more like this...

You... "Go ahead... ask your coach the question."

Your daughter... "Can I do my RO-BHS by myself in the next meet?"

Then the coach will either say "yes" or "no". At that point you can either be happy with the response or go further. If you go further... I would not have your daughter be involved in that part of the conversation.

 

[perkyperk1027]

This would be the absolute worst way you could possibly ask the question.

Just ask about your daughter and her BHS. Do not bring up the other coach at all.

I would do more like this...

You... "Go ahead... ask your coach the question."

Your daughter... "Can I do my RO-BHS by myself in the next meet?"

Then the coach will either say "yes" or "no". At that point you can either be happy with the response or go further. If you go further... I would not have your daughter be involved in that part of the conversation.

Thank you. I will work with my daughter on what to say and working her up to talking to her coach with me (this is something she struggles with and we are constantly working on - speaking up herself).

All this gymnastics stuff is new to us, she just started rec classes a year ago, joined pre-team in the spring, so we're just wrapping up our first year. She's highly motivated to learn the skills and make corrections, and is feeling really discouraged that she (and her whole team) aren't getting the chance to even work on this one skill (even stations based work is rare).

The only reasoning the coach gives to the team about not working on them is that it's such a small part of their overall 'score' (fun meet w/ no score only ribbons but I believe the spot is causing the whole team to not even have the possibility of the highest ribbon).

I really am trying to trust the process but this is the one thing I'm struggling with. The coach is new to the gym this year, and when other coaches work with their group, they seem surprised they don't have the RO-BHS (and a couple of other skills on bars). And up to this point I've been apprehensive about bringing up the RO-BHS with her coach, so I'm glad I'm asking on here first, as I really am trying to let the coach be the coach and me just be the parent, but seeing my daughter come home discouraged around not being allowed to work on a skill she has the ability to do has been rough.

 

[TumbleTwist]

Agree with JBS. Have your daughter ask the question. However, if the coach says no, I personally wouldn't push it any further. Mostly because it wouldn't be worth affecting her chance of making team. If they see you as a "pushy" parent, or one that constantly questions the coach's decisions, they may not want your daughter on team. Just not worth it for a "fun meet" IMO.

 

[perkyperk1027]

Agree with JBS. Have your daughter ask the question. However, if the coach says no, I personally wouldn't push it any further. Mostly because it wouldn't be worth affecting her chance of making team. If they see you as a "pushy" parent, or one that constantly questions the coach's decisions, they may not want your daughter on team. Just not worth it for a "fun meet" IMO.

This is for sure a concern of mine, so I think the route of just asking and seeing what she says, and then moving forward from there makes the most sense.

I have told my daughter that she just needs to continue to work hard on improving the skills she has, making sure they're really solid, and the fact that she does have the RO-BHS - hopefully that'll be enough to get her onto team and then she has all summer and into fall/winter to work on it more.

 

[TumbleTwist]

There's also a very big difference in doing a skill, vs doing it well. It's possible that the reason the coach isn't letting her do the ROBHS is because she's seeing form issues that need to be corrected before she feels comfortable letting her throw it. Because I can tell you that the one thing I've learned in my first 3 years as a gym mom, is that when I think a skill looks pretty good, a coach will look at it and see 6 different things that need correcting

As far as the ROBHS being enough to get her on to team, it's unlikely that will be the case. Team coaches are looking at far more than just being able to throw a ROBHS. They are looking for good form on basic skills, coachability, good attitude, ability to make corrections, etc.

 

[RALG]

I will say this- there is a difference between doing it and doing it competition ready. I didn’t know that until this year. My daughter could do that skill- although her form was inconsistent- and was not able to compete it at all this season because of it. Sometimes the BHS wasn’t long enough etc. Sometimes coaches are trying to build good form and habits before turning them loose to compete it. Sometimes they are it’s trying to protect your gymnast. I saw some scare nearly neck breaking ROBHs at meets this year. I’d take a cautious coach over that any time! My kids not going to break her neck. There’s a lot more to a good ROBHS han I ever knew. And it’s the start for a lot of higher level tumbling so they gotta learn it right!

 

[perkyperk1027]

There's also a very big difference in doing a skill, vs doing it well. It's possible that the reason the coach isn't letting her do the ROBHS is because she's seeing form issues that need to be corrected before she feels comfortable letting her throw it. Because I can tell you that the one thing I've learned in my first 3 years as a gym mom, is that when I think a skill looks pretty good, a coach will look at it and see 6 different things that need correcting

As far as the ROBHS being enough to get her on to team, it's unlikely that will be the case. Team coaches are looking at far more than just being able to throw a ROBHS. They are looking for good form on basic skills, coachability, good attitude, ability to make corrections, etc.

Oh for sure. That is what I've been telling her is possibly some of the reasoning of why she isn't being allowed to do it is that yes, she can do it, but there are form issues (which she is working on when possible).

And, when I say having her ROBHS getting her on team, I just mean that they see she can do it. Her and I talk often about how the more important thing is coachability, listening to and making corrections, working hard, listening to instructions, strength and flexibility, all the tiny corrections and details in all of the skills, not just having this one thing. Those are all the things that are primarily in her own control and she does. Working on the ROBHS is kind of the one thing she just feels she's being held back on (again, likely for reasons we don't fully understand, which is kind of why I posted, to try and understand and to see if there was a conversation worth having with her coach).

 

[perkyperk1027]

I will say this- there is a difference between doing it and doing it competition ready. I didn’t know that until this year. My daughter could do that skill- although her form was inconsistent- and was not able to compete it at all this season because of it. Sometimes the BHS wasn’t long enough etc. Sometimes coaches are trying to build good form and habits before turning them loose to compete it. Sometimes they are it’s trying to protect your gymnast. I saw some scare nearly neck breaking ROBHs at meets this year. I’d take a cautious coach over that any time! My kids not going to break her neck. There’s a lot more to a good ROBHS han I ever knew. And it’s the start for a lot of higher level tumbling so they gotta learn it right!

This post for sure has helped kind of validate most of the feelings I was having and the conversations we've been having. Because I told her that exact same thing. That it's the base for so many other higher level skills so it needs to be solid and strong and pretty, and that her coach likely doesn't want her doing it wrong too many times to where she has to then break bad habits.

I think the main reason I've been having a hard time with this one skill is the sheer lack of time the coach spends working on it at all with any of the girls. And that coupled with the fact that other coaches have let her do it, it's sent her this mixed message of "I can do it but it's just my coach that won't let me" or "my coach is letting other girls do it with bad form (bent arms, legs apart, bent knees)"

It sounds like I'm having all of the right conversations with her, and the right approach of trusting the coaching process even when we don't fully understand it

 

[TumbleTwist]

Trusting the process is hard. But if she makes team, you are really going to have to grasp onto that. Because things don't move much faster once she's on team. At times it will feel tediously boring. Lots and lots and lots of shaping drills, conditioning, flexibility, etc. Because experienced coaches know that learning proper shaping is what's going to make your gymnast successful going forward. I would shift the focus off of the ROBHS, and focus more on form. Can she do a solid back limber (with straight legs, both legs coming up together)? When my daughter was evaluated for team, they didn't even look at ROBHS. They wanted to see a back limber with good form.

 

[NutterButter]

I agree with what the others have said re: the difference between having a skill and it being competition ready. I wouldn't put much stock into another coach letting her do it unspotted. It's kina like having a substitute teacher where different classroom behaviors are allowed/permissible because the sub doesn't know the details of the class.

Something that hasn't been mentioned - be careful with going to open gyms so that your DD doesn't learn skills incorrectly. Open gym sessions may not be taught by team coaches and even if they are, they may not be coaching the skill in the way that your gym teaches the skill. You'd hate for her to get a skill primarily through open gym and then she spends the next 8 months having to clean up form mistakes that became engrained. It sounds like her season is winding down and with that will come time for learning new skills, including ROBHS.

 

[GymDadWA]

Wait until she starts working on kips.

I am also just a parent, but like so many parents tried to at home coach, and while my DD got some early skills faster, she ended up having to unlearn those skills and learning them with correct form. Gymnastics is more of a marathon not a sprint, patience and small measured steps is often necessary to ensure long term success. While she might not be doing a full skill regularly in practice she is probably doing shapes and drills to do that skill properly.

 

[perkyperk1027]

I agree with what the others have said re: the difference between having a skill and it being competition ready. I wouldn't put much stock into another coach letting her do it unspotted. It's kina like having a substitute teacher where different classroom behaviors are allowed/permissible because the sub doesn't know the details of the class.

Something that hasn't been mentioned - be careful with going to open gyms so that your DD doesn't learn skills incorrectly. Open gym sessions may not be taught by team coaches and even if they are, they may not be coaching the skill in the way that your gym teaches the skill. You'd hate for her to get a skill primarily through open gym and then she spends the next 8 months having to clean up form mistakes that became engrained. It sounds like her season is winding down and with that will come time for learning new skills, including ROBHS.

The open gym sessions we go to are at her gym, but I understand what you're saying, thank you!!

 

[perkyperk1027]

Wait until she starts working on kips.

I am also just a parent, but like so many parents tried to at home coach, and while my DD got some early skills faster, she ended up having to unlearn those skills and learning them with correct form. Gymnastics is more of a marathon not a sprint, patience and small measured steps is often necessary to ensure long term success. While she might not be doing a full skill regularly in practice she is probably doing shapes and drills to do that skill properly.

Yeah....I know kips will be a long process haha, she is excited for when they start working on those too.

I'm sure some of it is just lack of time at practice too, to focus on RO-BHS when they do want to improve all the other little things throughout floor routine. They only do 30 minutes/practice (2x a week) on floor, and usually 1 day is routines and the other day is stations, so there is limited time, I get that too.

She is looking forward to when her last meet is over so they can work more on skills without the focus on routines for awhile. And looking forward to when she'll get in more hours in the gym, 6 hours is just not enough for her.

I had no clue what we were getting into a year ago when she asked to sign up for a gymnastics class....and here we are hahaha

 

[perkyperk1027]

Trusting the process is hard. But if she makes team, you are really going to have to grasp onto that. Because things don't move much faster once she's on team. At times it will feel tediously boring. Lots and lots and lots of shaping drills, conditioning, flexibility, etc. Because experienced coaches know that learning proper shaping is what's going to make your gymnast successful going forward. I would shift the focus off of the ROBHS, and focus more on form. Can she do a solid back limber (with straight legs, both legs coming up together)? When my daughter was evaluated for team, they didn't even look at ROBHS. They wanted to see a back limber with good form.

I'll have to see next time she is stretched out and at the gym to have her do a back limber and see what it looks like. It's not a skill they do in practice ever.

 

[TumbleTwist]

I agree with what the others have said re: the difference between having a skill and it being competition ready. I wouldn't put much stock into another coach letting her do it unspotted. It's kina like having a substitute teacher where different classroom behaviors are allowed/permissible because the sub doesn't know the details of the class.

Something that hasn't been mentioned - be careful with going to open gyms so that your DD doesn't learn skills incorrectly. Open gym sessions may not be taught by team coaches and even if they are, they may not be coaching the skill in the way that your gym teaches the skill. You'd hate for her to get a skill primarily through open gym and then she spends the next 8 months having to clean up form mistakes that became engrained. It sounds like her season is winding down and with that will come time for learning new skills, including ROBHS.

The open gym sessions we go to are at her gym, but I understand what you're saying, thank you!!

Yes, I was going to comment on this too. You mentioned taking her to a cheer gym for privates, and I would strongly recommend you be very careful in doing this. Many gymnastics gyms do not allow (or like) girls training at other gyms. Also, from what I understand, the way they teach ROBHS at a cheer gym can be very different than the way they teach it at her home gym. And like others have pointed out, undoing bad habit can take a really long time. I think because she's still in rec, they may not have a problem with it, but once she's on team, I would definitely double check with her coaches before taking her to a cheer gym for privates.

 

[perkyperk1027]

Yes, I was going to comment on this too. You mentioned taking her to a cheer gym for privates, and I would strongly recommend you be very careful in doing this. Many gymnastics gyms do not allow (or like) girls training at other gyms. Also, from what I understand, the way they teach ROBHS at a cheer gym can be very different than the way they teach it at her home gym. And like others have pointed out, undoing bad habit can take a really long time. I think because she's still in rec, they may not have a problem with it, but once she's on team, I would definitely double check with her coaches before taking her to a cheer gym for privates.

Good to know. The coach she is working with does have her do many drills that I have seen her do at gymnastics, and she was sure to tell them that her standing BHS has to be no swing. Most of what she's been working on there has been shaping and drills. The plan was only to do 1 more session there anyhow because we do want to be sure she is learning it correctly and the way she needs to. I was hoping that doing it this way she'd get a chance to work on it more with correct form, but I can see how this might not be the best route as well.

The cheer gym we have been using does have girls on their team that are also on team at our gymnastics gym, and there doesn't seem to be any issue with that, and I don't recall any restriction of it in our handbook paperwork we signed at the beginning of the season, but again, thank you for pointing this out.

I would have done it through her home gym if her coach offered privates (other team coaches do, her coach just doesn't give the option).

 

[Gym_momma]

Agree with JBS. Have your daughter ask the question. However, if the coach says no, I personally wouldn't push it any further. Mostly because it wouldn't be worth affecting her chance of making team. If they see you as a "pushy" parent, or one that constantly questions the coach's decisions, they may not want your daughter on team. Just not worth it for a "fun meet" IMO.

I wouldn't push it either. You know she can do it and you are supporting her development. As hard as it is, I would try to be patient with the gym.

 

[perkyperk1027]

I wouldn't push it either. You know she can do it and you are supporting her development. As hard as it is, I would try to be patient with the gym.

It's so hard!

But exactly why I posted here, to kick around some of the thoughts going through my head, get them out to some other people (that understand this world), get feedback from people who have been there, and go from there.


Thank you all who responded, it's been really helpful.

 

[Aussie_coach]

It may feel like they haven’t been working on round off back handsprings but it’s possible the have been working in them intensively every session.

They may be working on all the different aspects of the skill like leg power, jumping backwards, take off position, arm technique, shaping, hurdles, round offs, courbuettes, rebounds, snapping chest up etc.

Then when the appropriate pre requisites are mastered they will put it together and it will work very quickly.

A lot of kids and parents get the idea that good coaching is getting them to do the skill. But if they can get them to do the skill on their own on the foot and it’s messy and sloppy. It can take a VERY long time to fix. It’s faster to take more time to learn to do it properly in the first place, than to try and fix mistakes later.

The skill doesn’t just need to be doable. It needs to be safe, functional, progressive and aesthetic.

Lots of kids throw this skill on their air mats at home and think coaches are being over cautious when we say they aren’t ready. But the skill itself is not hard to do, but it’s hard to do correctly. If they are doing them before they are ready it can cause serious issues.

If there is a flaw in the technique it means there will have to be a compensation somewhere else in the body. Often putting undue pressure on the back or the wrists. At the time the gymnasts won’t feel anything, but after doing hundreds of them with poor technique they will end up with awful Oom in those areas. Pain that comes in slowly is also slow to heal and it can result in a life time of pain.

I would also never allow a child to do a round off back handspring on floor until they have an excellent standing back handspring on floor. The round off back handspring is easier but the round off will often allow the skill to be thrown over with poor technique, as the round off gives extra power and compensates for the problems.

Again this reinforces bad habits, that take a long time to undo and in many cases never get fixed.