Parents Rant about the system (regionals age groups)

[Deleted member 18037]

Nationals is about every state’s presenting their best

Fair doesn’t mean equal

 

[Blackhawk]

I apologize if this thought has already been discussed, but there is variation in judging between regions. We live in MN (region 4) and purposely do a few travel meats outside of our region to help the girls get some big scores during the season. Almost every one of our girls hit PR’s in outside of MN (and WI) meets. We have 2 judges in our region who are quite famous here for their tough judging, and guess what…… they are always judging at regionals! I know that I personally take great pride in the level of success our level 10 gymnasts go on to have in college. There is a reason KJ has a ton of region 4 girls on he team, and it isn’t because of their 36-37 AA scores back in the day. I read these posts every year, and I get it. But just wanting to throw another perspective in there. My daughter was excited to make Nationals last year because she knew it was a great opportunity for college coaches to compare her head to head against other gymnast at Nationals, not just by looking at the scores she had gotten that season.

 

[rlm's mom]

Region 8 here too. Neither of my DDs made it to nationals last year. DD16 got injured mid warm ups, only competed bars and beam. She scored a 9.725 on bars and didn't make the wildcard session. She needed to rest that minor injury so was fine to end the season there. If she was healthy I would have been upset for her.
DD13 scored around a 37.5 and didn't make it either. It was her second meet back after injury and an amazing score for her but that's the depth she was competing against...

 

[rlm's mom]

Also want to add that there are advantages bring in a strong region. An average kids has a higher chance of being noticed if she has very strong teammates, good gym reputation and goes to meets with other strong gyms. Easier for coaches to scout than going to a random small gym in region 2

 

[Flicfliclay]

Region 8 here too. Neither of my DDs made it to nationals last year. DD16 got injured mid warm ups, only competed bars and beam. She scored a 9.725 on bars and didn't make the wildcard session. She needed to rest that minor injury so was fine to end the season there. If she was healthy I would have been upset for her.
DD13 scored around a 37.5 and didn't make it either. It was her second meet back after injury and an amazing score for her but that's the depth she was competing against...

That is crazy that a 9.725 didn't make the wildcard session. That stinks! I am still confused how the whole Wildcard thing works. I mean i know they take 2 additional AA and top 5 in each event across all age groups, but still unsure how they choose 5 in each event if there are multiple scores the same. What if a girl gets 1st place in an event, she doesn't get to go as and IES for wildcard? so strange...

 

[rlm's mom]

That is crazy that a 9.725 didn't make the wildcard session. That stinks! I am still confused how the whole Wildcard thing works. I mean i know they take 2 additional AA and top 5 in each event across all age groups, but still unsure how they choose 5 in each event if there are multiple scores the same. What if a girl gets 1st place in an event, she doesn't get to go as and IES for wildcard? so strange...

I love the idea of the wildcard but not the implementation. At the moment it is treated as a separate competition to nationals and awards are at the end of that session. I would like the scores to count to that gymnast's she group scores so the are competing against mainstream.

 

[Flicfliclay]

I love the idea of the wildcard but not the implementation. At the moment it is treated as a separate competition to nationals and awards are at the end of that session. I would like the scores to count to that gymnast's she group scores so the are competing against mainstream.

True, i can understand that. I'm glad they brought it back. For the life of me though i don't get why, if a kid gets first on an event as a specialist that she wouldn't get an automatic to the Wildcard or get to compete as a specialist with the rest...

 

[Pigeon]

That is crazy that 9.725 didn't make the wild card session. I just did a quick look at beam in R7 because I was curious...it looks the like next 5 top beam scores were 9.625, 9.625, 9.625, 9.6, 9.6.

They might take all the ties if that 5th place ends up being a tie. If you look at last years nationals results, the numbers competing on each event varied. There were 12 AA, and 54, 43, 48,60 on V, Ba, Be, Fl.

Being first on an event does not mean you will get a wild card spot.

 

[Pigeon]

For the life of me though i don't get why, if a kid gets first on an event as a specialist that she wouldn't get an automatic to the Wildcard or get to compete as a specialist with the rest...

There aren't IES past the State level of meets.

 

[Flicfliclay]

There aren't IES past the State level of meets.

that is strange as it has IES numbers on regional age division sheets. Example: 23 jr a , 10 jr b and then in parenthesis it will show the number ( 5 IES )..

 

[Pigeon]

that is strange as it has IES numbers on regional age division sheets. Example: 23 jr a , 10 jr b and then in parenthesis it will show the number ( 5 IES )..

Yes, you are right, sorry about that! I think once you are in as an IES to Regionals, you join the rest of the pool competing for those wildcard spots.

 

[GymDad00]

Just so everyone understands this... you cannot just rank scores in order across 8 different Regional competitions. The athletes need to have the same judges... in the same venue... with the same equipment. That is the only way this could be done.

Totally understand. With everyone's routines now being posted on social media... It's amazing to see the variance in scoring by regions. It's not even subjective that some regions score a half a point lower or higher on some single events.

 

[Flicfliclay]

Totally understand. With everyone's routines now being posted on social media... It's amazing to see the variance in scoring by regions. It's not even subjective that some regions score a half a point lower or higher on some single events.

half a point is A LOT! Do you really think there is that much differentiation? I mean i can see maybe 2 tenths 3 tops, but a half a point is ALOT..

 

[CeeJay]

This whole discussion is fascinating. I'm shocked at how different the qualification process is for boys vs. girls. I'm just learning about it for boys now as this year is the first year my son is eligible for anything further than regionals. I feel the boy's system is really fair - it's a percentage system as suggested a few times in this thread.

Smaller regions are allotted smaller numbers of boys who can qualify for Easterns, Westerns, or Nationals. Larger regions get to send more boys. If you look at the actual all around cut offs, it's shockingly consistent.

For example, in men's Region 2, 28 boys in my son's level qualified for Westerns. They take the top 28 in his level regardless of age. The 28th kid had an all around score around a 65.5. In much larger men's Region 1, they were allowed to send 73 boys. That 73rd boy also had an all around score very close to 65.5.

At Easterns and Westerns the "regional teams" are simple the top 5 scores on each event per region - those boys don't rotate together or anything - their scores are just put together to create a "team score" to determine which Region reigns supreme. I'm not sure how the team completion works at the National level though. I'm still learning as we go!

 

[josie55]

It's interesting to learn how it's done differently with boys and in other countries.

An example of how this played out this year, in Region One JuniorF, 17 of the 31 competitors scored a 37.2 or above. 7th place was 37.9 and 12th was 37.8! JuniorD was not much different -- 32 competitors and 8th place scored 37.825.

Some of those on the border got spots from other regions or all-star spots, which is great, but soooo many talented, high scoring gymnasts did not qualify. It all still seems kind of crazy to me. I can't recall if this was suggested earlier, but I wonder if making the cutoff score for Nationals a 36 instead of a 35 would bring more equity without disrupting the rest of the system too much?

 

[gym_dad32608]

Did anyone figure out how the "wildcard" event specialists tie-breakers were determined?

 

[Pigeon]

Did learn that the "wild card" score must be at least 9.3 to go.

 

[Flicfliclay]

Did anyone figure out how the "wildcard" event specialists tie-breakers were determined?

We learned tie-breaker for wildcard is the AA score.. a little unfair again.. if a kid goes and only does 1 or 2 events they get screwed if they tied.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It's interesting to learn how it's done differently with boys and in other countries.

An example of how this played out this year, in Region One JuniorF, 17 of the 31 competitors scored a 37.2 or above. 7th place was 37.9 and 12th was 37.8! JuniorD was not much different -- 32 competitors and 8th place scored 37.825.

Some of those on the border got spots from other regions or all-star spots, which is great, but soooo many talented, high scoring gymnasts did not qualify. It all still seems kind of crazy to me. I can't recall if this was suggested earlier, but I wonder if making the cutoff score for Nationals a 36 instead of a 35 would bring more equity without disrupting the rest of the system too much?

If kids are scoring that high then 36 isn’t enough. It is just how that falls out.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

This a sport where the NCAA championship had a 0.8625 point difference from first to last. The difference between first and second place. 0.15, that’s zero point one five.