WAG Recreating WAG

[raenndrops]

Personally I think that mandatory move up scores in optionals are dangerous. Especially at a 36. I know plenty of girls who got a 36 in L9 this year once or twice who will be repeating. And they should. these upper optional levels are HARD and forcing someone to move up based on arbitrary scores is setting them up to fail or get hurt. Also, having "high" or "low" hour divisions in optionals is also not realistic. *Maybe* in compulsory levels, where there are so many more kids, but in optionals it is just not practical in many states- plus there are post season meets to consider. I think a lot of this sounds good to people who want a more recreational type of program, but that is what Xcel is all about- lower hours, less $$ but still a competitive program. Put these restrictions in place in that program to force gym to use it properly- that makes more sense. The reality is that you will never make it "fair" - but you will never make LIFE fair. Trying to micro manage this stuff is not practical and in the end doesn't do much good. Lets focus on the big issues and make sure that gyms are safe and free from abuse - not waste our time on hour limits and move up scores.

The gymnasts could always start with a lower SV in the higher level and only compete what is safe.
High and low hours could be adjusted in those states that needed to... there would have to be enough gymnasts to warrant it.
But how does that affect post season meets? The best still go, whether they come from a high hour gym or a low hour gym. The judging is no different, just for the "team" component, a 7.5 hour L8 team isn't directly competing against a 25 hour L8 team for the TEAM award. You still put the scores in order and take the best.

 

[raenndrops]

Mandatory move up equals mandatory increase in injury rate and retirement. The end. Not even an option .

How? Currently, if the skill isnt ready, you don't compete it.
With mandatory move up, if the skill isnt ready, you don't compete it.
You just start with a lower SV until you are ready. As I said, if we were TRULY doing this, the coaches would be on board.

 

[raenndrops]

I agree. The difficulty about trying to micro-manage in this way is that what will work for a larger, dominant, populous state/region will not work for the smaller, more rural state/region. And vice versa.

That is why there was leeway for individual states put in there. And the hour cut-offs were just "for example."
I think anything over 12 hours is a lot. We practice 7.5 hours a week. Even at Level 8.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

How? Currently, if the skill isnt ready, you don't compete it.
With mandatory move up, if the skill isnt ready, you don't compete it.
You just start with a lower SV until you are ready. As I said, if we were TRULY doing this, the coaches would be on board.

Because people already push kids too fast resulting in injury....

 

[raenndrops]

Because people already push kids too fast resulting in injury....

One reason I adjusted the ages for levels 5+. No need to push so fast.

And remember, in my imaginary world, the coaches would ALL be on board with it, so they wouldn't be pushing gymnasts to do what they arent ready for.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Just dreaming here

instead of mandatory move ups based on scores, would it be possible to make all levels optional, and routines that might fit the next level (only missing one requirement or so) get a mark from the judges as ready. Once you get all 4 in 1 or 2 meets, you move up

Nothing will be ideal, fair or equal in gymnastics

 

[wandrewsjr]

Why must the purpose of gymnastics for all be to "move up levels"? If an individual gymnasts wants to just practice a certain number of hours, maintain current level, have fun and get exercise, but still compete, what is wrong with that? Why must she move up just because she is good at it?

 

[aerials]

Competitive groups by hours practiced.

A besides a minimum score, a mandatory move up score, as in you need to be done with this level.

For meets, divisions that include years at level or previous scores.

Limits on hours practiced.

Limit awards to top 20-25%

Interesting the homeschool option is getting more popular here and it's impossible to get anywhere near these girls scorewise

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Everyone always wants mandatory move ups .... until it's your kid and..... "she broke her arm over the summer ....". Or, "she has fear issues now" or "she started so young and it's not fare" or "she lost her ---------". Or "those meets were so overscored". Finally "now she wants to quit". This whole everyone gets a medal thing combined with first year second year is a virus . Life is a competition of sorts.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Life is not a competition and it’s sad that you see it that way. I would rather my kid could practice all the hours without the team requirement, or that there was an option for performance without competing (a la dance companies). My kid would’ve been pushed up by a 36 requirement.. and I have had zero problems with her being sidelined a season without competing- been there and done that anyway. If the love is of doing gymnastics (and it should be).. well.. that’s done in the gym, during practices, and not at competitions. All this uproar over those few minutes a year. I’m admittedly a non-competitive person, but I just don’t get it.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Some may like competition and not want to just train and may not have a goal to move up levels. Why force all gymnasts to do what you would choose to do?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Mandatory move up equals mandatory increase in injury rate and retirement. The end. Not even an option .

I think there should be mandatory move up scores, but I would set it at a 37. Everyone saying it is dangerous or will push girls out- why could they not simply train until ready without the pressure of competing or compete the next level with a lower start value? Just because those things aren’t common doesn’t mean they’re dangerous or harmful. In my opinion, of course. I think if you’re scoring 37+ then you really have nothing to gain from a level except medals, and I don’t think that’s necessarily the right focus, especially if you’re working toward a new level.

Yep. The question was what would you do if you could recreate or start fresh.

The answer is not to do as it has always been done. You've mastered one level but not ready or the next. Don't compete.

You have fears or coming off an injury, you don't compete. I would think that would take a boatload of pressure off the kids and in fact decrease burn out and injuries.

Rather then think mandatory move up, perhaps think this way. Mandatory you are done with this level. Again, just because you are not competing doesn't mean you are not learning new skills.

And if not there should be separation by minimum scores, years at level, hours practiced. To more level the competition in a division. Age group to me makes the least amount of sense.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Some may like competition and not want to just train and may not have a goal to move up levels. Why force all gymnasts to do what you would choose to do?

Because if you are competing (and not just training), the point of a competition is to win it. That said, staying at a level that you’ve mastered indefinitely definitely falls under my definition of cheating. Obviously you don’t have to agree with me, but it doesn’t make that competition field any more level. If a level playing field doesn’t matter than why have levels at all- put all the girls (ageless, level-less) out there together with FIG scoring and let the judges sort them out.

 

[raenndrops]

Some may like competition and not want to just train and may not have a goal to move up levels. Why force all gymnasts to do what you would choose to do?

They can train and move up and still compete only what they are ready to compete.
I understand not wanting to compete, but to train.
I understand wanting to compete what you are good at. I have never met a gymnast who could score 37+ and not want to move up.
And, without the push to higher levels so fast (no competing L7 as a 7 year old), things might be different and gymnasts may actually want to move up when they are ready.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Life is not a competition and it’s sad that you see it that way. I would rather my kid could practice all the hours without the team requirement, or that there was an option for performance without competing (a la dance companies). My kid would’ve been pushed up by a 36 requirement.. and I have had zero problems with her being sidelined a season without competing- been there and done that anyway. If the love is of doing gymnastics (and it should be).. well.. that’s done in the gym, during practices, and not at competitions. All this uproar over those few minutes a year. I’m admittedly a non-competitive person, but I just don’t get it.

I did say of sorts. But Maybe for you it's not , which I doubt. Example ; competing to get a job by giving the best interview or polish up that app. Or get on a team or club. Or be first in line to get something you desire. Putting in an offer for a house . Or get the most attention..... yes we are all competitive in one way or another.

 

[MabelSt]

I think more most kids (the vast majority not Olympic of college bound) the point of gymnastics is fitness and working hard at something they love through challenges. I hear the point about “winning” and I know life isn’t fair and it’s good for kids to see that, but from my little experience with competitions, I think the focus on winning isn’t good, because it causes kids to focus on external motivation and feedback and not internal motivation, combined with the fact that the way the competion is set up, in my opinion, most wins are meaningless. Meaning, is the kid who is repeating and winning really doing better than the kid competing their new skills? What’s the goal, plastic medals or personal improvement? Some of that is impossible to get rid of with a competition format so it is what it is, but I think the attitude of doing your personal best is the more useful life skill.

Overall I would change the rules to be like usaigc, required skills, but with options.

I wouldn’t set hour limits but I’d set recommendations for maximum hours for ages/levels based on safety and overuse.

I would have a mandatory move up, but I’d make it flexible, so I’m cases where there’s a reason a gymnasts needs to repeat, they could.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I did say of sorts. But Maybe for you it's not , which I doubt. Example ; competing to get a job by giving the best interview or polish up that app. Or get on a team or club. Or be first in line to get something you desire. Putting in an offer for a house . Or get the most attention..... yes we are all competitive in one way or another.

I don’t put on anything for anyone, physically or metaphorically- what you see of what you get. I’ve been me (sans heels and hose) at every job interview I’ve had, I don’t haggle on what price I want to pay/fetch, and I don’t head out middle of the night for sales/tickets. I really am an outlier on this competitive thing (my husband more than makes up for this with his), but I think I just have a fundamentally different world view. I prefer cooperation over competition seven days of the week.

ETA: it could be argued that this is why I’m not “ahead” in life. I don’t entertain those arguments (even from my husband) because I don’t see anything I need to be ahead on, and I’m fairly sure I’m exactly where I should be.

 

[raenndrops]

I think more most kids (the vast majority not Olympic of college bound) the point of gymnastics is fitness and working hard at something they love through challenges. I hear the point about “winning” and I know life isn’t fair and it’s good for kids to see that, but from my little experience with competitions, I think the focus on winning isn’t good, because it causes kids to focus on external motivation and feedback and not internal motivation, combined with the fact that the way the competion is set up, in my opinion, most wins are meaningless. Meaning, is the kid who is repeating and winning really doing better than the kid competing their new skills? What’s the goal, plastic medals or personal improvement? Some of that is impossible to get rid of with a competition format so it is what it is, but I think the attitude of doing your personal best is the more useful life skill.

Overall I would change the rules to be like usaigc, required skills, but with options.

I wouldn’t set hour limits but I’d set recommendations for maximum hours for ages/levels based on safety and overuse.

I would have a mandatory move up, but I’d make it flexible, so I’m cases where there’s a reason a gymnasts needs to repeat, they could.

When we had mandatory move up scores, you could petition (one year) to repeat a level... BUT you could not petition to repeat the same level 2x.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

just take a year off? With all respect that's a horrible thought to kids coaches and parents. And yes I absolutely have had kids who scored 37 even 38 and were not ready (and knew it) for the next level.... happens for various reasons.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I don’t put on anything for anyone, physically or metaphorically- what you see of what you get. I’ve been me (sans heels and hose) at every job interview I’ve had, I don’t haggle on what price I want to pay/fetch, and I don’t head out middle of the night for sales/tickets. I really am an outlier on this competitive thing (my husband more than makes up for this with his), but I think I just have a fundamentally different world view. I prefer cooperation over competition seven days of the week.

ETA: it could be argued that this is why I’m not “ahead” in life. I don’t entertain those arguments (even from my husband) because I don’t see anything I need to be ahead on, and I’m fairly sure I’m exactly where I should be.

Didnt you say you coached? And aren't you trying to win every argument here on CB? Lol. Add, that was a bit of a joke . That being said if you truly are not competitive then why are you responding to the topic of competition and how to make it fare?